Price Negotiation

[NicB]

Hi all,

Has anyone had success negotiating a lower price with dealers below TSRP? I'm not talking about negotiating any dealer markups, but the actual suggested retail price. I recognize how early it is and how popular these vehicles are, so guessing the probability of success is likely low but wanted to ask. If you have had success, what negotiation tactics did you use?

Thanks!
NicB

 

[Jstawgn]

Jim Ruleau in Toyota under msrp facebook group is offering 5K off 1958 and a couple grand off LC grade in northeast.

 

[Ahitchc4]

This was legit but they lowballed my trade. Worth reaching out.

 

[mkennedy009]

I was wondering how a fully loaded FE could be 3K above MSRP $76,750. Dealer handling and installed packages. Still $71,118 is a good price for a FE.

 

[Phillyd2]

Seems like these days the only negotiation is how far to bend over. Now people celebrate and brag about paying ‘only’ full MSRP.

 

[simple]

I've read that the difference between invoice and MSRP is very healthy. So dealers are making a fat profit even selling at MSRP. Over MSRP is just greedy

 

[Cablebandit]

I contacted my local Lexus dealer about the odds of getting an Overtrail ordered in with no port add-ons and a moonroof delete. Basically the $68,000 GX. She basically told me try again in another year. Of course they email me everyday now asking what they can do to get my business.

 

[NicB]

Thanks for all the feedback. I am going to attempt negotiation and see what happens. Worst they can say is "no".

 

[flyfish4life]

I personally can’t wait until the worm finally turns on these greedy ass dealers.

 

[Rednexus]

I personally can’t wait until the worm finally turns on these greedy ass dealers.

It most certainly will. The economy goes in cycles and we are in a longer-term boom/shortage cycle right now. It won't last for ever and will come back down at some point.

Unless you have cash to burn and/or really want one now, it's best to wait out a few years for prices to subside. We paid a bit over MSRP ($500) for my wife's Highlander but aren't planning on buying anything for at least the next 2-3 years.

 

[lcgeek]

What's the savvy forum consensus decent price on used LC trim level with 3k miles?

 

[TheMallet]

I have agreed in principal (with a 1K refundable deposit) some months ago to a deal at MSRP with no dealer add-ons… but the sale has not been completed, so holding my breath that they don’t change it on me.

 

[lcgeek]

What does that equate to in dollars and cents? Sorry I admit in advance I have not done my homework on MSRP.

I was not looking but stumbled on this used one today. TCarfax had the Vin listed as First Edition model, but it was not. So I'm guessing at $71K even with the add-ons is not a deal. Looks like prior owner upgraded wheels, tires, and a rack. Not sure what else.

 

[krice118]

What does that equate to in dollars and cents? Sorry I admit in advance I have not done my homework on MSRP.

I was not looking but stumbled on this used one today. TCarfax had the Vin listed as First Edition model, but it was not. So I'm guessing at $71K even with the add-ons is not a deal. Looks like prior owner upgraded wheels, tires, and a rack. Not sure what else.

I wouldn’t pay $70k for a LC250

 

[Corbet]

Why is everyone always so shocked that an auto dealer who is running a business to make a profit asks for MSRP (or more) on a car deal. It’s simply supply and demand. None of us here “need” a new 250. Want one, yes. If you don’t like the deal don’t buy one. I’m pretty sure the majority of the people here work for companies who indeed look to make a profit. Personally I’m way more upset about the price of groceries, I need those to survive.

 

[Rednexus]

Just buy a used GX460 for $40K, dump $20K in to mods, spend your remaining $10K on something else, and enjoy the rig .

As I've said previously this supply/demand imbalance won't last forever. Supply will catch up and prices will fall. Either due to Toyota building more, or more likely, an economic slowdown where demand drops. There will be better times to buy in the future.

 

[Jetboy]

Why is everyone always so shocked that an auto dealer who is running a business to make a profit asks for MSRP (or more) on a car deal. It’s simply supply and demand. None of us here “need” a new 250. Want one, yes. If you don’t like the deal don’t buy one. I’m pretty sure the majority of the people here work for companies who indeed look to make a profit. Personally I’m way more upset about the price of groceries, I need those to survive.

I think the frustration is that no one really wants a dealer involved. I would much rather order direct and save the $6,000ish that the dealer takes out of the deal. Buying at invoice price still nets a dealer about $2k depending on model and current holdbacks, incentives, etc. At MSRP the dealer is taking around $6k on an LC250. I simply don't see $6k in value in what the dealer provides for a new vehicle purchase. The supply is restricted by Toyota but more importantly the competition is artificially restricted by rent seeking laws passed by state governments. If we could eliminate the artificial barriers and allow more freedom in transacting purchases - I suspect we'd see prices closer to Japanese pricing on LC250s. But then how would retired football players make $50 million a year? I just don't know how we would balance those two interests. Nick Saban and John Elway gotta eat. It's a double edged sword.

Also FWIW - I think we're already seeing prices approach invoice pricing. The world is normalizing a bit already. And I think Toyota is also partly to blame for going a bit over the top on its North America excessive pricing targets. The LC250 diesel version in Japan starts at just under $36K USD. It doesn't cost $20k to ship it to the USA. Costs about $600 port to port plus logistics and domestic transport costs. That's an unusually high margin that Toyota is seeking on the wholesale side. I suspect that's going to deflate back to pre-covid levels going forward as well through incentives and price cuts.

All of this together suggests to me - it's not the time to pay over MSRP or to pay anywhere close to MSRP on a used one. You can buy them near invoice already and they may get cheaper from here.

 

[Jetboy]

What does that equate to in dollars and cents? Sorry I admit in advance I have not done my homework on MSRP.

I was not looking but stumbled on this used one today. TCarfax had the Vin listed as First Edition model, but it was not. So I'm guessing at $71K even with the add-ons is not a deal. Looks like prior owner upgraded wheels, tires, and a rack. Not sure what else.

Just as a reference point - here's one advertised at $61k for a new LC trim: https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/new/s...ryEnabled=true#listing=392183678/NONE/DEFAULT

I don't think there's $10k worth of accessories on that one unless it has some pretty crazy suspension mods hiding under there. And it's used. I think it would probably need to be mid 50's to be worth a hard look for me. YMMV. Good luck finding what you want.

 

[Corbet]

I think the frustration is that no one really wants a dealer involved. I would much rather order direct and save the $6,000ish that the dealer takes out of the deal. Buying at invoice price still nets a dealer about $2k depending on model and current holdbacks, incentives, etc. At MSRP the dealer is taking around $6k on an LC250. I simply don't see $6k in value in what the dealer provides for a new vehicle purchase.

Personally I don't welcome a direct transaction on a vehicle yet. Well at least not on this level of vehicle. Lots of things can go wrong in a transaction. Much easier to deal with a local storefront. I like a live person in front of me when doing business. I know that comes at a price.

 

[Jetboy]

Personally I don't welcome a direct transaction on a vehicle yet. Well at least not on this level of vehicle. Lots of things can go wrong in a transaction. Much easier to deal with a local storefront. I like a live person in front of me when doing business. I know that comes at a price.

I guess I'm the opposite. I think there are many more points of failure in a transaction between manufacturer > wholesaler > dealer > customer than manufacturer > customer. The Tesla buying experience is significantly better than the dealer experience in most cases. And that even includes myself buying from the Toyota dealer my friend owns. I get dealer price and no sales pitch and it still isn't as easy as buying from the manufacturer.

If you need to finance the vehicle, maybe there's value there? I'm not sure. There's also value if you're trading in a used car. Again - 90% of that value is rent seeking though. The dealer special treatment on sales tax is bad government and should be eliminated. But it exists, and as it currently is dealers can divert money from funding schools and roads into their bank accounts and share a little with you.

I do think dealers play an essential role in aftermarket support - but I'd still skip the buying part and just have Toyota authorized maintenance centers. And - frankly I'd prefer as a car owner that they be owned directly by Toyota. But I do think they are necessary and the biggest hole in the Tesla/Rivian/?? model of sales. If Tesla had a recall equivalent to the Toyota V35A replacement - it would have no way to complete it.