But if you do figure how to press liners in and out of a motor in a truck that would be so cool! But still... big red flags on this one.
g
g
pre cup destruction
- Thread starter cruisedeisel
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
I have wondered repeatedly if you could make a fixture that screws into the four head bolts around a cylinder and uses a meaty leadscrew and plunger to pull the liners in and out.
Even if its possible I doubt theres clearance by the firewall for the last sleeve to come out vertically. Certainly not on a 40, but maybe a 60. Still I guess we're not talking about that cylinder anyway.
EDIT: er, maybe we are talking about that one.
Last edited:
Yes I've done my Isuzu liners in-situ before. I used a section of pipe, a home-made puller, threaded rod and some blocks of wood to pull them. They tapped back down in with wood and a hammer.
I don't know how tight the 3B liners are.
I don't know how tight the 3B liners are.
Nasty
cruisedeisel
Toyota's for life
- Thread starter
- #26
ok, lets restart
for all of you that think my engine is in my truck. well it isn't, my truck runs great. i have 3 spare 3b motors that im trying to make into one.
one ran awesome, it just lost a precup. so im dinking around with my free spare time and thinking about making a frankenmotor. time to go dissect the other two.
for all of you that think my engine is in my truck. well it isn't, my truck runs great. i have 3 spare 3b motors that im trying to make into one.
one ran awesome, it just lost a precup. so im dinking around with my free spare time and thinking about making a frankenmotor. time to go dissect the other two.
I think we need someone on MUD to try this on a Toyota B or H engine.
I suspect the insertion/removal device would need to be much more beefy (than what's shown in the Isuzu photos) because I believe the Toyota engine is more of an interference-fit ..... but I think amaurer is onto something here.
I suspect it is do-able by a skilled person taking care.
Once you've replaced the liners yourself you could then just get a machine-shop to match the bores to your pistons and hone them (and also maybe machine the liner-protrusions).
I'm always a fan of doing as much as I can myself!
(I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to tap new B-engine liners into place with your method Dougal.)
I think we need someone on MUD to try this on a Toyota B or H engine.
I suspect the insertion/removal device would need to be much more beefy (than what's shown in the Isuzu photos) because I believe the Toyota engine is more of an interference-fit ..... but I think amaurer is onto something here.
I suspect it is do-able by a skilled person taking care.
Once you've replaced the liners yourself you could then just get a machine-shop to match the bores to your pistons and hone them (and also maybe machine the liner-protrusions).
I'm always a fan of doing as much as I can myself!
(I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to tap new B-engine liners into place with your method Dougal.)
The 3B in my BJ42 is hurting for a rebuild - tell you what, when I pull the engine I'll start by trying to pull the liners myself. If its possible in the first place maybe I'll build a meaty fixture and we can pass it around the world to needy Diesel Tech'ers.
The 3B in my BJ42 is hurting for a rebuild - tell you what, when I pull the engine I'll start by trying to pull the liners myself. If its possible in the first place maybe I'll build a meaty fixture and we can pass it around the world to needy Diesel Tech'ers.
Pity we don't live a tad closer together Drew.
I have various bits of large-dia threaded rod (even some really heavy-duty square-thread with massive "operating wheels" off some old door-presses) and a good-size lathe and lots of metal odds-n-sods to be able to make up a decent puller/re-inserter.
The Isuzu liners come in two types. The factory sort are Chromard, hard chrome plated steel which are pre-finished. No machining or honing to do.
A lot of engine rebuilders insert cast iron liners which are then finished once pressed to the diameter of the piston. In my experience these are a distant second as far as internal friction and wear goes.
Isuzu did grade their liners for bore fit, however now it's difficult to find different grades now, they hand out what I think is the loosest fit, they work fine but idle noise picks up a little from piston slap.
A lot of engine rebuilders insert cast iron liners which are then finished once pressed to the diameter of the piston. In my experience these are a distant second as far as internal friction and wear goes.
Isuzu did grade their liners for bore fit, however now it's difficult to find different grades now, they hand out what I think is the loosest fit, they work fine but idle noise picks up a little from piston slap.
In case you're in any doubt, I can assure you that you have been very successful in convincing me that these Isuzu DI engines (with inline pumps, dry-liners and turbos) are superior to what I've got Dougal.
And if it wasn't for my obsession with keeping things ex-factory .... I might even be looking at transplanting one.
But then I probably shouldn't be admitting such a thing on this site
In case you're in any doubt, I can assure you that you have been very successful in convincing me that these Isuzu DI engines (with inline pumps, dry-liners and turbos) are superior to what I've got Dougal.
And if it wasn't for my obsession with keeping things ex-factory .... I might even be looking at transplanting one.
But then I probably shouldn't be admitting such a thing on this site
If you ever want to be pushed over the edge, come down and I'll let you have a drive. If you want to get into real trouble, get the 6 cyl Isuzu version (6BD1T - commonly found in buses in NZ) and throw it into an 80 series cruiser.
All this talk of precups broken and 3B rebuilds has me concerned. Someone told me they do over 500,000km without any trouble.
Yeah the pre cups are always in the back of my mind. Im planning on getting a 5mm bore scope or some old scopes from my work if I can wangle it. I just missed out on an ureterenoscope. Its like 20 inches long with a 3mm tip you can control to look all over the place. Doing annual or biannual visual inspections might give me more peace of mind. Some scopes you can get arent that expensive. Would be a good investment for a club or something. I wanted something small to fit the glow plug hole. The injector hole would be larger, but more of a pain in the ass to perform.
5mm bore scope - Bing Images
Cups are not the only things that can detonate a motor. I bought a BJ60 many years ago which had a dead cylinder. When I opened it up the entire exhaust ring land had fallen in. fortunately it didn't destroy the liner, but the head, piston and rod were toast.
In my mind the constant tempering of the cups will always eventually lead to failure. Ceramic coating might delay that. It would be interesting for say an engineer or someone... eh hemm... to see how many cycles Stellite or stainless steel could withstand before cracking.
g
5mm bore scope - Bing Images
Cups are not the only things that can detonate a motor. I bought a BJ60 many years ago which had a dead cylinder. When I opened it up the entire exhaust ring land had fallen in. fortunately it didn't destroy the liner, but the head, piston and rod were toast.
In my mind the constant tempering of the cups will always eventually lead to failure. Ceramic coating might delay that. It would be interesting for say an engineer or someone... eh hemm... to see how many cycles Stellite or stainless steel could withstand before cracking.
g
Last edited:
....
All this talk of precups broken and 3B rebuilds has me concerned. Someone told me they do over 500,000km without any trouble.
You're misinterpreting me Dougal.
So Isuzu Internet sites never show any carnage?
I think there'll always be "engine damage" occuring no matter how well-designed an engine may be. It's occurrence depends on so many factors that are outside the manufacturer's control.
And I think discussing engine-damage (causes and repairs) will always be a proportion of vehicle-enthusiast conversations on any website (and a worthwhile one too).... Even Isuzu websites.
And I side with Wayne on the longevity of the 3B (if I must take sides). Furthermore, I'd go so far as to include any diesel that was factory-fitted to a forty-series in this.
I think saying a 40-series diesel is a 500,000km engine is not untruthful and not even an exaggeration.
What I like about the Isuzu engines is that this manufacturer (after Toyota produced its B and H engines) hasn't spent its Research & Development (for this engine anyway) on stuff like "Variable Valve Timing, Multi-valve, Common-rail injection ....... which by the way usually go hand-in-hand in my thinking with "reduced-sump-capacity", "plastic valve covers" and the like) ... But instead they appear to have maintained the engineering principals behind the 40-series diesels and gone further by incorporated advancements in metallurgy and further improving ease-of-maintenance/overhaul.
And of the alternative diesels that are built-to-last, most look to me like they should really sit in the hull of boat or in the chassis of a double-decker bus (rather than in the engine-bay of a small 4WD).
Last edited:
Even on this board someone posted some pics of an Isuzu that chewed one of its liners into confetti...
No, not at all. Just a reminder that precups do indeed crap themselves.
BTW the Isuzu 4B line goes back at least as far as the Toyota H and B. The 4BD1 itself was produced in the late 70's and early 80's. Production of the NPR turbocharged 4BD1T started in 1986 and ran until 1994, the industrial versions started earlier and finished later. The 4BD1, 4BD1T, 4BG1 and 4BG1T industrial and marine motors (same block, bigger bore and 4.3 litres) are still in production.
Most Isuzu carnage takes the form of damaged turbo and without the extra air the engine overfuels enough to melt pistons and scuff the cylinder bores. They'd be blowing a massive amount of black smoke while doing that, but it seems some drivers don't notice.
One of my chicken farmer buddies just got his ford chipped. Now hes blows black all the time. He says he loves it and tries to blow it into little ricer guys cars with loud stereos when their windows are open. I told him that the trick is to make it look unintentional, otherwise some people might just take offense to it.
g
g
Soon be? I think they come broken from the factory. Friends dont let friends drive fords
g
g
cruisedeisel
Toyota's for life
- Thread starter
- #40
so who has run these after market stainless steel precups and are they better than the stockers???
i've bought myself a length of 1/2 grade 8 n/f thread ready rod and see what i come up with. i going to attempt to pull a sleeve out with a home made puller.
i also bought myself a new diesel compression tester. see the truth behind my trucks life.
now to get ballz deep
i've bought myself a length of 1/2 grade 8 n/f thread ready rod and see what i come up with. i going to attempt to pull a sleeve out with a home made puller.
i also bought myself a new diesel compression tester. see the truth behind my trucks life.
now to get ballz deep
