Power steering failure

[RumDoodle]

My 2019 is on a flatbed on its way to Toyota in Santa Fe. Fingers crossed this doesn't turn into a dealer service rant.

What had happened was...

Snowy road between Taos and Angel Fire, we pull over to give more room to passenger car to pass by.... very soft shoulder and 12 inches of new snow hid the depth of ditch. Attempted to drive out but could only go forward and backward sliding in ditch, tires could not get grip to get out. Low range clearly no different.

Maxtrax work like a charm though. Out in 5 minutes but when we get on our way, no power steering. Suspect the left turn of front wheels trying to get out damaged the pump somehow. I could smell the fluid, and checking under the hood something definitely had spewed steering fluid. It was dark and 15 degrees out so my inspection was cursory. Limped back to house and called dealer in Santa Fe who said absolutely do not drive as steering fluid is extremely flammable. Said my basic Toyota care still valid so flat bed is called and we are stuck with no coche waiting on their damage assessment.

1. Anyone know Toyota Santa Fe? Is there a specific service adviser I should request?
2. I'm completely caught off guard that blowing a steering pump was possible on a truck with 25000 miles. Anyone else had this happen? FWIW, the manual says do not turn wheels to lock for more than 10 seconds "extended period" else damage could occur. I do not think I had the wheels turned locked to the left for more than 10 seconds consecutively, but it was more than 10 seconds of back and forth trying to get out of ditch turning to the left.

Truck is modded (albeit a legit @Eric Sarjeant build) and I'm wary of the dealer trying to dodge a warranty repair saying this was user error / or wheels and lift somehow contributed to failure. Hoping this is not a case for Bob Loblaw.

 

[Sandroad]

Since your sort of stuck with that dealer, just wait for the damage assessment and go from there. If not covered by warranty and you were basically forced off the road by another vehicle, consider an insurance claim. Nice work to have the Maxtrax on tap. My only red flag so far is the dealer claim about the fluid. Yes, it’s oil and will burn, but it’s not “extremely flammable”. On the 10 sec rule.....I bet lots of folks on here have had steering at full lock for more than that!

 

[DCOVIEL]

I lived in Santa Fe for 3 years. The Toyota dealer is honest. I had my old Tacoma serviced there. I wouldn't sweat trying to find in indie shop for what needs to be done. I know that stretch of road you were on!

 

[empty80]

I bought my 200-series there. I wish you better luck than I’ve had there. I tried to have is serviced there once. The service writers acted like my issue was a true slight to their existence because it wasn’t an oil change. The codes showed as emissions related, but they wouldn’t even entertain the idea of it being warranty work because of the way my truck looked.

Their parts counter guy was very helpful though.

 

[DCOVIEL]

CAVEAT: I moved out of the Santa Fe area in 2007. Seems like yesterday... hahaha

 

[tbisaacs]

FYI power steering fluid on the 200 is ATF fluid. Agree with others - yes you can get it to burn, but it's not going to burst into flames.

 

[bloc]

The pump probably didn’t die from the pressures it saw, you somehow busted a line (hence the smell) and the leaked fluid caused it to go dry. That will kill a pump quick.

As for how you’d bust a high pressure line in that scenario I’m not sure. How tall are 305/65/17s?

 

[TeCKis300]

Sorry to hear about the issue. This is the first time I've heard of the power steering failing in this manner. I can't imagine a cruiser not handling significant steering load and others have put their rigs through more than this. And failing in a manner that causes loss of fluid?

Almost seems like a fitting wasn't tightened or a line is compromised or interfering some modification to cause such a leak? Curious to what they find.

 

[RumDoodle]

The pump probably didn’t die from the pressures it saw, you somehow busted a line (hence the smell) and the leaked fluid caused it to go dry. That will kill a pump quick.

As for how you’d bust a high pressure line in that scenario I’m not sure. How tall are 305/65/17s?

If I recall they're roughly same as OEM rubber on 18s, ie somewhere between 33 and 32 inches. Speedo reads same. No rubbing.

Nothing else under hood has been messed with.

My attempts to get out of ditch were not too rough. Certainly not for this truck. (I have a wife and two dogs in kennels that squawk if I get after it.)

 

[ramangain]

If you don't like the SF dealer answer/approach, have it towed down to ABQ. 2 Mr. T dealerships, one right off of I-25 north of I-40

 

[rscoleman]

I had to have Rack and Pinion replaced due to leak on driver side, 2016 LC with 48000 miles. I am second owner bought it with 14400 in 2018 as it came off a 2 year lease. I would guess like others you some how damaged a line lost fluid and that is what killed pump. I had a 2006 Honda Pilot before the LC it had 180K on it and rack and pinion went bad. The dealer replaced the rack but messed up installing one of lines. After about 1000 miles the pump was toast and this was during a drive from TX to AZ. Had to have pump replaced in Tempe, AZ. Dealer in Round Rock, TX would not pay for pump replace.

 

[vegasfj40]

I bought my 200-series there. I wish you better luck than I’ve had there. I tried to have is serviced there once. The service writers acted like my issue was a true slight to their existence because it wasn’t an oil change. The codes showed as emissions related, but they wouldn’t even entertain the idea of it being warranty work because of the way my truck looked.

Their parts counter guy was very helpful though.

Maybe you forgot to tell them you have a Buddy in the business!

 

[empty80]

Maybe you forgot to tell them you have a Buddy in the business!

I guess that’s where we went wrong!

 

[RumDoodle]

I had to have Rack and Pinion replaced due to leak on driver side, 2016 LC with 48000 miles. I am second owner bought it with 14400 in 2018 as it came off a 2 year lease. I would guess like others you some how damaged a line lost fluid and that is what killed pump.

Sorry to hear about the issue. This is the first time I've heard of the power steering failing in this manner. I can't imagine a cruiser not handling significant steering load and others have put their rigs through more than this. And failing in a manner that causes loss of fluid?

Almost seems like a fitting wasn't tightened or a line is compromised or interfering some modification to cause such a leak? Curious to what they find.

Spoiler alert: I did not luck out with the assigned service adviser. So far their working stabs in the dark have been:

1. You have an aftermarket power steering cooler device that failed / jammed open a valve that emptied the fluid.... Your fault for modding truck [No such device is on this truck. I said try again].

later that day...

2. Master Tech says your aftermarket shock reservoir is up against the power steering return line. Maybe under extended turning load the pressure in the return line could not flex and fluid backed up/ spewed out near reservoir.... Your fault for modding truck / getting stuck. We Refilled fluid/bled lines/ checked for leaks and its working fine now. But location of shock reservoir will cause problem again. [He's talking about my BP-51s, installed on thousands of 200 series worldwide. I have a second opinion from another master tech (at Ed Martin) that this explanation is highly improbable based on ARB design / install location...]

Next day....
3. Your power steering pump has failed. Toyota is not going to warranty because you modified your truck with a lift and oversize tires which changed the angle of the steering rack vs factory causing excess pressures and power steering gear has excessive bind due to lift. Also truck is throwing codes because of modded truck / removed seats, you have no functioning airbags. [ 305/60/17 K02's are heavier than stock for sure, wider yes at 12.5 inches, but again, my tires are 32.5 inches, not 35s. BP-51 is a 2.5 inch lift. Nothing crazy. others on here are rolling more aggressive for sure. Also, 2nd row removed and I have not installed squibs to turn off Airbag light.]

So. maybe this thread should be moved to here: When modified 200s go the dealer for repairs

I should have dropped truck off and said nothing.

Regardless I crapped out on the advisor. I'm certain there are over 100 LC 200 series in the U.S. rolling with this suspension setup, many with bigger rubber, many that have stressed the steering system in more extreme situations. This was a freak failure that could have happened to a stuck stock vehicle. Will see if DSI will cover based on changed geometry of lift as this dealer asserts.

 

[empty80]

Spoiler alert: I did not luck out with the assigned service adviser. So far their working stabs in the dark have been:

When I had my issue, I went to Toyotech around the corner for second opinion and advice. They had two 80-series and three 100-series present. They might be an decent shop for cruisers if you have insurance that will pay out for repairs.

 

[bloc]

If you have to eat the cost of a pump it isn’t THAT much. I’d just want to know where the fluid leak came from.

 

[RumDoodle]

If you have to eat the cost of a pump it isn’t THAT much. I’d just want to know where the fluid leak came from.

Evidently It only came out the top of the reservoir. Spray on hood mat and around the reservoir. Enough that the pump ran dry / failed. The mechanic says its due to the different angle of the steering rack due the lift which caused the relief valve to get stuck and therefore fluid found the path of least resistance out the top of reservoir. I suggest it could have happened in stock truck (pressure built up with wheels turned to lock). He said no, that the proper lift installation would have kept the same gear / rack geometry as stock. Also says my turning angles compromised. Never noticed this either. (This is all being passed secondhand through the service advisor who I don't think has a full grasp of any of this).

Again the is the very common BP-51 kit with 2.5 inch lift. I don't know enough about the installation methods to call bull**** on this diagnosis or not.... I think the warning is be careful on loose / rough terrain / snow with wheels turned to lock and hi revs. And carry a little extra fluid if you have the room.

 

[Artie]

Evidently It only came out the top of the reservoir. Spray on hood mat and around the reservoir. Enough that the pump ran dry / failed. The mechanic says its due to the different angle of the steering rack due the lift which caused the relief valve to get stuck and therefore fluid found the path of least resistance out the top of reservoir. I suggest it could have happened in stock truck (pressure built up with wheels turned to lock). He said no, that the proper lift installation would have kept the same gear / rack geometry as stock. Also says my turning angles compromised. Never noticed this either. (This is all being passed secondhand through the service advisor who I don't think has a full grasp of any of this).

Again the is the very common BP-51 kit with 2.5 inch lift. I don't know enough about the installation methods to call bulls*** on this diagnosis or not.... I think the warning is be careful on loose / rough terrain / snow with wheels turned to lock and hi revs. And carry a little extra fluid if you have the room.

I’m sure someone in here has the expertise and experience to validate or disprove this. My gut tells me this is how they don’t have to warranty your issue. So all you ended up needing is a pump, fluid, and clean up?

 

[bloc]

Maybe this varies by state but I seem to remember something about they have to prove that your modifications caused the failure, not just say “its modified, we won’t cover it.”

Your ride height tie rod angles did change, yes, but only to another position within the normal suspension travel. Following that mechanic’s logic, if you had been articulated with a tire compressed or extended, it should do the same thing. I have trouble seeing toyota designing it this way.

Not to mention, maybe it’s the service advisor but the pressure relief valve doesn’t vent anywhere except back to the inlet of the pump. It shouldn’t ever build up pressure within the system except for heat induced fluid expansion.. in which case it should still have fluid in there. The fluid doesn’t expand by 3x or anything.

 

[TeCKis300]

It's the age old challenge with modified vehicles, to keep warranty coverage when things go wrong. I modify every single one of my toys and I'm always weary of these gray areas. Fortunately for the cruiser with strong bones, things break less often, but it can happen.

I hate to side with the Service Advisor on this one but they do have some relevant points. The problem is less due to the BP-51 lift and more because of the situational incident along with wheels and tire fitment.

Situation being that falling into the gutter puts huge steering loads at the furthest horizontal extents of the tire, rather than normally under the tire. The steering system has to work particularly hard against these forces.

Offset does impact the geometry of the suspension and steering mechanisms. Larger tires do as well. While unfortunate, I can understand their position to not warranty the PS pump. Specifically, with more aggressive offsets and tires, the steering rack loads do increase beyond stock pretty dramatically.

I'm not sure of the repair costs involved but they should be manageable. If they do get into the territory that warrants it, this may be more appropriate as an insurance claim.