Poll on total brake failure in 100 series (2 Viewers)

[OregonLC]

Is there data to show how many failures required the entire booster assembly vs a $50 rebuild kit?

Just because the dealer diagnostic said replace, doesn't mean that it couldn't have been serviced. Before I dropped $900+ I'd be inclined to follow Skidoo's rebuild in the FAQ. That is, unless there was a clear way to tell otherwise (like the pump not coming on).

 

[80Greg100]

Nope, 2003 w/125K miles...

 

[Eliot]

Had to change my vote from No, to Yes between 250k and 300k. My LX has 253k miles. Stumbled over this thread a couple months ago and then realized I had the spongy pedal. Ordered the master cylinder rebuild kit (new piston w/ o-rings) and replaced my Master Cylinder. Had a firm pedal and good brakes. 2 weeks later I get an alarm and abs light/brake light. Pulled into the grocery store parking lot and as I pull into a parking spot, the pedal goes to the floor. I had just a little bit of brakes, but it took some serious force to stop the truck. Shop told me the ABS pump had seized up. I'm going forward with the installation of a brand new OEM ABS pump. Definitely a pricey repair, but it seems it would happen eventually, so it's either now, or next year...

It's a weird coincidence that this happened so soon after i rebuilt the MC. I've been told that my work really couldn't have caused the pump to fail...it's just one of those things that eventually happens.

This almost seems like an item that needs to be replaced before it fails (sometime after 200k miles). Or at least budgeted in for anyone buying a truck over 200k miles. I'm very lucky I wasn't on a long road trip with my girlfriend and dog in the car. The alarm and dash lights are definitely enough of a warning to get the truck stopped before you lose complete pressure in the accumulator. Just pull over immediately if you get these warning signs.

I will be tearing my old pump apart to look for the failure point and determine if I can rebuild it. I will post back when I get results.

 

[SWUtah]

I tallied up the reports on safercar.gov for total brake failure in the 1998-2007 Land Cruiser and 1998-2007 LX470. There are a total of 18 reports. I have been unable to find an estimate of the number of actual defects of a certain type (brake failure for example) compared to the number reported to safercar.gov. I'm sure that something less than 100% of the total number of failures were reported. The majority (but not all) of the reports to safercar.gov are in the 1998-2003 models. That may reflect higher mileage and older vehicles are most susceptible or it may reflect a change that improved the single point of failure issue in the braking system. If anyone is interested in the details, I can post the year by year results.

I think it would be great info if you could post the details.

 

[dnp]

I've been studying this strange issue for some time now, and I've been trying to find out why there's not a "simpler," less expensive solution to this problem, short of buying a new brake accumulator assembly (part # 47070-60010). In my digging around, I ran across the part that I've always thought was the main culprit (part # 47950-60010) Here's a sample description from a Toyota dealer website: 47950-60010 | Toyota OEM Parts | ACCUMULATOR | Genuine Toyota

Again, I have not had personal experience with this problem (yet - and I'm trying to see if there might be an inexpensive way to take this issue off the table completely through some preventative maintenance), but shouldn't replacement of (a) the master cylinder plunger seals, and (b) this accumulator motor take care of this potentially catastrophic brake failure threat?

I'm hoping some of you with personal experience working on these parts can offer your opinions.....

 

[e9999]

hoping this thread may help somebody avoid an accident, as in :


Alarm -> Stop immediately!


tell your - I have. Repeatedly!

 

[PADDO]

If your accumulator has failed then that part's what you need, the last few failures have been the 12vdc motor that runs on demand to drive the pump which charges that accumulator. It appears Toyota doesn't sell just the replacement motor, you need to either fix it (have a new commutator soldered in with new brushes) or buy the $$$ motor/pump/accumulator assembly. At least that's my understanding.
Edit. Pump Assembly brake booster - 47960-60010 which is just the pump and motor (no accumulator) can be had for $900 ish, or $600 from Amayama.

 

[dnp]

By any chance, would someone happen to have a "failed unit" they'd be willing to part with? The guy I use to work on all of my vehicles is a mechanic's mechanic, and he said he'd be very interested in seeing if he could dissect one of the failed units to see if he could engineer a fix for this issue. What he's wanting is as much of the brake accumulator/booster/motor/master cylinder assembly that anyone might have and would be willing to part with (I'll pay shipping)......it just seems as if there must be a workable (safe rebuild) solution to this issue, and having a unit to inspect would be invaluable.

Anyone?

 

[OG 91 LC]

Man. I try not to think of this issue when I'm driving my truck. I have been thinking of whether it would have been a good idea to ask the members who voted and answered yes to let us know the whereabouts of the truck; as in what part of the states the truck is located or had been located for long periods of time. I'm sure we can list x-amount of factors, but I was wondering if geography may be something to consider. As I recall someone had posted lots of pictures of the whole assembly being dissected and looked like moisture and dirt had seeped in causing some funky build up. Just wondering if a certain parts of the states may cause this issue more than others.

Since I drove my truck today I went down a really steep hill near my house. Speed limit is 40 and most cars tend to drive down faster for obvious reasons. So I tried to imagine what it would be like to have brake failure on such a slanted road and moving at 40 mph or more. I drove around 40 mph going down and then I pressed my O/D button to get the truck into third. Shifted to 2 (second) and then got it down to L (Low) and yes by then I was moving really slow; 15-20 mph. I believe I went through the sequence all within a minutes time. I did all this with no cars behind me. I want to keep practicing this just in case. I'm trying to think if someone answered this, but if I'm driving faster than 40 mph how fast can I go through the above mentioned sequence from 4th to L?

 

[e9999]

Keep your emergency brake functional folks!

You know, I think this issue is worse than the dreaded HG issue with the 80! Bummer....

 

[dnp]

You know, it seems to me there must be a way to get Toyota's attention on this. This isn't merely an inconvenience, if a failure were to happen at the wrong time, this could be catastrophic!

Wouldn't you love to hear those warning bells right here?

 

[Sandroad]

Here’s the breakdown of complete brake failures in the ’98-’07 Land Cruiser/LX470 as complaints reported to the NHTSA through www.safercar.gov. I did the searches again and found 24 total reports this time. This tally does not include other brake related complaints, only brake failures. i suspect these 24 are mostly not the same as the 24 failures posted in the poll., but there could be some overlap.


1998-4

1999-8

2000-3

2001-2

2002-1

2003-3

2004-2

2005-0

2006-1

2007-0

 

[OG 91 LC]

Toyota North America is in Torrance California.
We should have a 100 series run over there and make our concern and presence known.
Even if nothing came out of it it would be cool to check out the museum and kick some tires.

 

[Eliot]

Here’s the breakdown of complete brake failures in the ’98-’07 Land Cruiser/LX470 as complaints reported to the NHTSA through www.safercar.gov. I did the searches again and found 24 total reports this time. This tally does not include other brake related complaints, only brake failures. i suspect these 24 are mostly not the same as the 24 failures posted in the poll., but there could be some overlap.


1998-4

1999-8

2000-3

2001-2

2002-1

2003-3

2004-2

2005-0

2006-1

2007-0

I just posted my complaint yesterday and the email I got back from NHTSA said it should be 72 hours before it appears on their site. That would add one more tally to the '99s

 

[ranma21]

It is certainly hard to swallow $1k for the brake booster accumulator as preventive maintenance item. But to think of the consequences it may cause if it fails or should I say break down at the wrong time at the wrong place ( going down a hill ), it is scary and unthinkable. Assuming you are ok and pull over safely, it will cost you $2k-$3k to have it fixed at the shop right then compare to do it at your garage when you can at a fraction of the cost. After reading this, I really think this is just a wear and tear item that has to be addressed sooner or later, especially if you have high mileage or older model year cruiser.

If I have a 100 series cruiser with over 150k miles I will replace it for sure and worry free for another 10 years. Assuming you spend $1200 for a new brake booster with accumulator with any Mud vendor and it only last 10 years, your cost is $120 per year, less than 3 tanks worth of gas, is it worth it when you cruise worry free with family on board? This issue is certainly more series than the 80 series fail head gasket issue, at least with the 80 head gasket failure it is not life threatening!!

I am sure the brake booster motor can be rebuilt if you can find a reputable motor rebuild shop to do it. Consider down time and unknown quality rebuild work that may not last as long as the OE part. I tried to look for aftermarket booster motor with no available so far, only OE are available at this time. I am surprise no aftermarket manufacturer has step in and make one even from China.

 

[e9999]

well, if you are going to replace the thing cuz you're afraid you're gonna lose all braking going down Lion's Back, would you buy one from some unknown company in China?

 

[ranma21]

well, if you are going to replace the thing cuz you're afraid you're gonna lose all braking going down Lion's Back, would you buy one from some unknown company in China?

I bet you when it comes down to price many people will try China made booster motor if there is one cheap enough, imagine big box part store offer one with lifetime warranty. You know many mudders are cheap bastard!!! including me LOL

 

[Eliot]

well, if you are going to replace the thing cuz you're afraid you're gonna lose all braking going down Lion's Back, would you buy one from some unknown company in China?

I see where you're going here and my answer would be hell no...If you're adamant about replacing this as a preventative maintenance item, you gotta do it right and go OEM (not that there's another option). As many mudders have said before, "stopping is more important than going." This pump could arguably be one of the most important parts of the truck. If you buy a truck with over 100k miles, make sure to budget in for the part. It's going to need to be replaced eventually. I'm sure this was stated before, but this pump runs for 20 seconds EVERY time you start your truck. Then it runs intermittently throughout a drive re-pressurizing the accumulator as it loses pressure. Depending on how much you use your brakes that pump would be running several+ times every time you drive.

 

[Sandroad]

Thanks to e9999 for starting the poll. I suspect that from what we know now, based the results of this poll so far and the reports to safercar.gov so far, owners are on their own to deal with this single point of failure in the braking system design. On the NHTSA web site, the process they use to open an investigation is ambiguous and apparently it takes a certain number of reports to catch the attention of the agency. Since Land Cruisers/LX470s were sold in such relatively small numbers, even when a design defect affecting some percentage of them is reported, it might not ever rise to the level of agency review. Externally petitioning the agency to open an investigation is a very formal process, involving publication in the Federal Register and significant documentation. I have the impression that primarily advocacy groups do that, not individuals. Historically, for a manufacturer to take any action on a safety issue has required a great deal of negative publicity involving multiple serious accidents over many years and we don’t seem to have that in this failure yet. A few lessons learned for me as extra important in a vehicle where complete brake failure is a documented possibility:

-Pay attention to the brakes and don’t ignore odd noises or problems
-If the warning buzzer sounds and lights flash, stop and park immediately
-Make sure the parking/emergency brake is functional
-Consider proactively changing the booster motor assembly as part of the 90,000K service

 

[SWUtah]

Since I have a 2005 with "no" reported problems. I think odds might be in my favor. But remember in an emergency you can always use one of those compact cars as a crush zone.