Parking on declined slope with low gas (1 Viewer)

[bigbassinbob]

I have a 16 LC with 28k miles that I typically park on a declined slope in my driveway - probably 15-20 degrees or so. Last night on way home from dinner, I noticed the fuel level was on the low side. Gas light not on yet. Figured I would wait until the next day to get gas. I go out to start the vehicle this morning, it turns over, then it sputters and chokes, then cuts off. Try to start it again and same thing. Sounded like it was out of gas. Fuel light now on. I got my gas can with 1 gallon and put it in. Try to start again - still won’t run. Took my wife’s car up to the gas station and got another gallon to put in. After this, the vehicle started up fine and ran. Took it up to the gas station and filled it up, where it took only 17.9 gallons.

This means that since the vehicle holds 24 gallons, it needed a little over 5 gallons in the tank in order for me just to be able to start it on a declined 20 degree slope. This seems crazy to me.

So my question is - is this normal? I’ve never had this happen before, and I usually get gas right when the gas light comes on. Never had any issues with the vehicle before.

 

[gaijin]

Park facing the opposite way (downhill/uphill) next time you are running low - problem solved!

HTH

Edit to add: A 20 degree slope is a 40% grade - that's very steep. With a wheelbase of 112" this means when parked facing uphill your front wheels will be almost 4 feet higher than your rear wheels. Yikes!

 

[TonyP]

With a 1/4 tank my BMW cuts out on sharp corners. Granted it's a 34 year old vehicle.

But yeah, park the opposite way. Problem solved.

 

[bigbassinbob]

It’s definitely not that steep then. This is when I was facing downhill, so back tires are probably 2 feet higher than front.

 

[Markuson]

Reminds me of when I ran out of diesel in high school while driving up a hill in my Volkswagen Rabbit.

I pulled over...realized what was happening...and then coasted backward & quickly whipped a u-turn.
-Then let some fuel get into the line while facing down-hill and flew up the hill before it ran dry again & made it to the station.

Edit:
Hmmm... Just saw that you were parked down-hill.

I don't know exactly where the line exits the tank, but that does seem a little weird.

I've filled my tank with MORE than 24.6 gallons before, so I've had it "beyond" empty, and still didn't sputter or run it dry. No hill involved, but still...if you could only pump 17+, something seems off there.

 

[bj70cruiser]

Figured that one out pretty quick when I moved to a new place with a steep driveway that I back up. Twice now have had to jerry can it with just under a 1/4 tank. We just have to keep it above a 1/4 tank now. Bit of a pain in the butt.

 

[Roy Park]

Couldn’t you coast down the hill until you get to a flat spot and start the car then?

 

[bj70cruiser]

If it was straight that might work.

 

[morganism]

sounds like the charcoal cannister is full, try swapping in and out lines, or get a spare new one, and let original dry out?

 

[bigbassinbob]

Glad to hear I’m not the only one that experienced this. Still find it strange that Toyota would design a land cruiser such that it won’t start at a certain angle even with over 5 gallons in the tank. I guess the fuel line must come out of the very rear of the tank.

If the charcoal canister was full, wouldn’t there be an issue independent of vehicle position?

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

The fuel pump sits in basically a tall bucket inside the tank. It’s somewhere between half to 3/4 gallon of capacity. As long as every now and then fuel sloshes by the pump, it fill the “bucket” almost all the way to the top. This makes it to where it is very hard to not have fluid on the fuel pump, providing some cooling to the pump. (This is also why I don’t get worried about running super low on fuel)

Unless you are on that angle for long enough to burn up over half a gallon of fuel. 5 miles of driving or over 30 minutes of idle, I doubt you’re starving your engine of fuel.

Speculation part:
Maybe there is just a computer program that doesn’t allow it to fire when on enough of an angle with low fuel? I remember long ago, on a ford go figure. I worked forever to get my buddies car working again. Super long story short, found out when it was low of fuel, and on over a 15° angle, the computer wouldn’t let the engine fire because of possible rollover. Figured if you were in a ditch with low fuel, you just needed to stop doing whatever your doing.

 

[Malleus]

I haven't opened the tank on my LX570, but the float on an 80 is at the rear of the pump and pivots forward. This means that if you're parked head downhill, the float could be "out of the water", even with fuel in the tank. There's a good sized sump in there, to allow sediment to settle out. This was also the case with my 40; I always parked facing uphill when I was low on gas.

 

[Malleus]

This makes it look like the float sits across the width, not parallel to the driveline. Ignore my earlier post.

I see Mr. T finally did away with the bolted joint between those band halves. I guess too many dealerships complained about losing money having the replace the outboard side band due to rusted bolts.

 

[paulhs13MA]

I have a '16 LC. I parked it overnight in a somewhat steep driveway, nose facing downhill, and had this problem in the a.m. My wife suggested I just roll forward in neutral to the flat ground beyond, which I did, and the vehicle started (Thank you wife!). When I got to the gas station, I could put in 20 gallons, which means the vehicle still had 6 gallons in it when this problem occurred. This seems like something that should definitely NOT happen to an LC; easy to imagine numerous situations where this would be an issue, and given the vehicle's offroading pedigree, this seems to be a real oversight. This means that at just under 1/4 tank this problem can arise. This issue is worth a letter to Toyota in Japan. I may try to write one if I can find the time. Otherwise, the vehicle is unbelievable, of course. On a not completely unrelated note, I'm disappointed that the NA version is not available with a long-range tank option.

 

[gaijin]

I have a '16 LC. I parked it overnight in a somewhat steep driveway, nose facing downhill, and had this problem in the a.m. My wife suggested I just roll forward in neutral to the flat ground beyond, which I did, and the vehicle started (Thank you wife!). When I got to the gas station, I could put in 20 gallons, which means the vehicle still had 6 gallons in it when this problem occurred. This seems like something that should definitely NOT happen to an LC; easy to imagine numerous situations where this would be an issue, and given the vehicle's offroading pedigree, this seems to be a real oversight. This means that at just under 1/4 tank this problem can arise. This issue is worth a letter to Toyota in Japan. I may try to write one if I can find the time. Otherwise, the vehicle is unbelievable, of course. On a not completely unrelated note, I'm disappointed that the NA version is not available with a long-range tank option.

A minor point, but according to the Owner's Manual for your 2016 LC200, the fuel tank capacity is 24.5 gal. (93 L, 20.4 Imp.gal). So, if you were able to put in 20 gallons, assuming you did not overfill, then there were only 4.5 gallons left in your tank, not 6 gallons.

HTH

 

[paulhs13MA]

A minor point, but according to the Owner's Manual for your 2016 LC200, the fuel tank capacity is 24.5 gal. (93 L, 20.4 Imp.gal). So, if you were able to put in 20 gallons, assuming you did not overfill, then there were only 4.5 gallons left in your tank, not 6 gallons.

HTH

Good point. Thanks. Somehow I had 26 in my head. But still, it's not a tiny amount of gasoline.

 

[bloc]

I’m assuming this is all a result of putting the tank pickup toward the rear of the tank, to make sure you have fuel for steep climbs with a low tank. As Taco mentioned during normal use any time fuel sloshes by the pickup this fills the bucket.. but overnight without the pump running the fuel drains from the bucket and the pump would no longer be submerged to start the engine.

Inconvenient for some, sure, but I think this is an unfortunate consequence of the otherwise robust off-road oriented design.

Keep it more full, or park it the other direction.

 

[gaijin]

Good point. Thanks. Somehow I had 26 in my head. But still, it's not a tiny amount of gasoline.

Take a look at this parts diagram which further breaks down the fuel pump/sub-tank assembly which @bloc refers to as the "bucket:"

The "bucket" is part# 77131C and the fuel pump is part# 23221.

So when the system is in operation, there would usually be enough fuel maintained in the "bucket" to handle extreme slopes when offroad; but when the system is shut off, the "bucket" may drain and result in the situation you describe.

HTH

 

[paulhs13MA]

Take a look at this parts diagram which further breaks down the fuel pump/sub-tank assembly which @bloc refers to as the "bucket:"

View attachment 2543942

The "bucket" is part# 77131C and the fuel pump is part# 23221.

So when the system is in operation, there would usually be enough fuel maintained in the "bucket" to handle extreme slopes when offroad; but when the system is shut off, the "bucket" may drain and result in the situation you describe.

HTH

Got it. Thanks. I wonder how slowly this "bucket" drains. I can think of many offroad situations where one would stop the vehicle, nose down, and turn off the ignition for a while (top of a dune, top of a roadway to a riverbed, etc.). Again, 4+ gallons is not a tiny amount of fuel in any vehicle's tank. It still seems like a flaw to me. Don't get me wrong; I love my LC, but I'm not uncritical of the vehicle's shortcomings (eg. not a big fan at all of having to use the touchscreen to adjust climate, that there's no feet-only setting for heat, the presence of tv sets in back, absence of option for factory-installed long-range tank, etc.). It's not a long list, for sure.

 

[bloc]

Got it. Thanks. I wonder how slowly this "bucket" drains. I can think of many offroad situations where one would stop the vehicle, nose down, and turn off the ignition for a while (top of a dune, top of a roadway to a riverbed, etc.). Again, 4+ gallons is not a tiny amount of fuel in any vehicle's tank. It still seems like a flaw to me. Don't get me wrong; I love my LC, but I'm not uncritical of the vehicle's shortcomings (eg. not a big fan at all of having to use the touchscreen to adjust climate, that there's no feet-only setting for heat, the presence of tv sets in back, absence of option for factory-installed long-range tank, etc.). It's not a long list, for sure.

We’d need to find one to tear down. Many vehicles use a similar system of fuel pump “module” which I refer to as the bucket, but there is some variance in the specifics. For instance I do know 04 “PD” TDI modules used direct flow from the pump through a nozzle to act as a venturi and provide positive flow without overwhelming the system. But their unique pressure requirements wouldn’t apply to us.