Paint protection

[Jackland]

Greetings gentlemen!! Curious about thoughts regarding paint protection........yes, my 100 is a garage (carport) queen, pavement princess, etc. Had a good deal of oxidation on the hood and tops of the quarter panels, was able to get it 100% corrected with Mcguires ultimate compound and followed that with their paste wax. It did great for a while, but more time elapsed than I realized and it recently started showing more signs of oxidation. Did the ultimate compound again, was able to do it much less aggressively this time since it was barely showing, got it corrected, waxed again.

My question is, what is the ideal interval for waxing? 3 mos.?? What are people's experience with these clear protective films? They block UV rays? We live in FL and I really want to daily drive her but not if I can't preserve her when she's sitting outside the office all day. I know, I know, it was made to be driven, but this particular one we want to keep as pristine as possible.

 

[Kabanstva]

Paint protection film is VERY expensive but worth it. You’re spot on about the wax, do it every 3 months.

 

[Toyoland66]

2 things, compound is pretty aggressive and will remove paint making the paint that remains thinner. You should use the least aggressive product and technique that gives you the result you want, since you already compounded you should be able to use a less aggressive polish for maintenance polishes. Second you should look into a sealant, they are typically more durable than wax.

 

[suprarx7nut]

I can add some insight here, having just had my 06LX PPF'd on the hood, fenders, lights, A pillars, mirrors. I've also dealt with a handful of cars with paint on the verge of failure.

1. What paint code do you have? Single stage or base/clear makes a difference, IMO. Single stage you can keep compounding for a long while. Base/Clear you'll burn through clear quick.
2. What you might be seeing is that you're still not "through" the bad paint yet. Paint oxidizes from outside in, in my experience. When it's left unfixed for some time, the oxidation can creep deep into the paint and you'll need to compound a LOT of it away until you're down to the good stuff. Sometimes the polish/compound can fill in the paint and saturate it. This makes it look great.... until the polish/compound dries and reveals the "dry" paint still there. I'm guessing this is what you're seeing. You compound and remove some top material and the compound settles into all the fine cracks and makes it look nice. When it dries (a day or a week) it looks dull again.
3. Waxes are fine. Just a TON of work once the paint is near failure. Sealants are better. PPF is king.
4. PPF is probably $2k minimum to do all the hood and all the fenders. I'll highlight mine in an upcoming video in my YotaMD Build. Mine cost around $2,500 I think. Pricey, but now I can forget about the paint doors-forward for years. Just maintain it like normal and it shouldn't oxidize or UV fade and stone chips should be minimized if not totally eliminated.

I think PPF is good for most any car. No matter how you slice it, PPF is cheaper than repainting. If you have good paint now and want to keep it that way in 5 years, get PPF. I think it's reasonable to want that whether you do trails every week or once a year. Without PPF, most 100 series are at a high risk to have paint failure by 2025, IMO.

 

[anhizer]

Second the recommendation for sealents, those are similar to waxes but are more durable. You can go down the rabbit hole on this topic. I think most pro detailers are now recommending a ceramic coating which is a 'semi permanent' coating that is applied annually (some last longer/shorter depending on application and material quality). Even for the home detailer they are difficult to apply so I would recommend having a pro do it.

That being said there are some ceramic spray on coatings that you can apply after each wash (prior to the drying step) that help maintain the paint protection (meguiars makes a decent ceramic spray coating that is available at most auto parts stores). The spray on type are different than a coating but are super easy to apply and therefore can be done more frequently.

One thing to note, Carnuba (natural) based waxes degrade rather quickly and offer less protection than synthetic based waxes. They offer a deeper gloss when present but dont last. I use Finish Kare 1000p which is a wax/sealent. I usually reapply when i notice that water isnt beading properly, maybe every 6 months (though im not very good about keeping track of how often it needs it. Prep is important too. It sounds like you have compounded the car but making sure its clean and free of any fallout on the surface is a good way to ensure the best finish. Using something like a claybar or equivalent product prior to wax application will ensure the best results. There are MANY detailing forums and videos online. AmmoNYC on youtube is a great channel; he sells his own products which are (very) expensive but the principles he uses are very sound. Chemical brothers (available on amazon) has good products but they are generally considered overpriced for what you get. They are a good alternative to store brands if you prefer buying online though.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Second the recommendation for sealents, those are similar to waxes but are more durable. You can go down the rabbit hole on this topic. I think most pro detailers are now recommending a ceramic coating which is a 'semi permanent' coating that is applied annually (some last longer/shorter depending on application and material quality). Even for the home detailer they are difficult to apply so I would recommend having a pro do it.

That being said there are some ceramic spray on coatings that you can apply after each wash (prior to the drying step) that help maintain the paint protection (meguiars makes a decent ceramic spray coating that is available at most auto parts stores). The spray on type are different than a coating but are super easy to apply and therefore can be done more frequently.

One thing to note, Carnuba (natural) based waxes degrade rather quickly and offer less protection than synthetic based waxes. They offer a deeper gloss when present but dont last. I use Finish Kare 1000p which is a wax/sealent. I usually reapply when i notice that water isnt beading properly, maybe every 6 months (though im not very good about keeping track of how often it needs it. Prep is important too. It sounds like you have compounded the car but making sure its clean and free of any fallout on the surface is a good way to ensure the best finish. Using something like a claybar or equivalent product prior to wax application will ensure the best results. There are MANY detailing forums and videos online. AmmoNYC on youtube is a great channel; he sells his own products which are (very) expensive but the principles he uses are very sound. Chemical brothers (available on amazon) has good products but they are generally considered overpriced for what you get. They are a good alternative to store brands if you prefer buying online though.

+1 for Larry and AmmoNYC. Amazing resource for paint knowledge and care.

 

[Kabanstva]

Whenever I have a customer that comes into our shop and says " I have such and such budget" and want to get some PPF and ceramic coating installed....I always tell them spend all the money to wrap as much of the car as possible in PPF. Ceramic is nice, but it is nowhere near PPF replacement. I always sugar coat it and sell it off as a long-term wax because it's BS what some of these ceramic companies are doing and lying how these coatings protect from chips/swirls/scratches, etc. because none of them do. I won't list specific names of companies but it's scary how much misinformation the general public has about ceramic coatings because they fall for the marketing hype.

Long story short, most customers that did a full front PPF and ceramic the entire car (including the PPF) always regretted not wrapping the entire car in PPF because after a few years of daily driving/track driving you really start to see the wear on the parts that were not wrapped. Yeah it's expensive, but there's nothing out there that currently offers more protection. Full car PPF wraps have become alot more common, you no longer have to "sell" those jobs, people come in and request it alot more than they did five years ago. I wonder why....

 

[Jackland]

I can add some insight here, having just had my 06LX PPF'd on the hood, fenders, lights, A pillars, mirrors. I've also dealt with a handful of cars with paint on the verge of failure.

1. What paint code do you have? Single stage or base/clear makes a difference, IMO. Single stage you can keep compounding for a long while. Base/Clear you'll burn through clear quick.
2. What you might be seeing is that you're still not "through" the bad paint yet. Paint oxidizes from outside in, in my experience. When it's left unfixed for some time, the oxidation can creep deep into the paint and you'll need to compound a LOT of it away until you're down to the good stuff. Sometimes the polish/compound can fill in the paint and saturate it. This makes it look great.... until the polish/compound dries and reveals the "dry" paint still there. I'm guessing this is what you're seeing. You compound and remove some top material and the compound settles into all the fine cracks and makes it look nice. When it dries (a day or a week) it looks dull again.
3. Waxes are fine. Just a TON of work once the paint is near failure. Sealants are better. PPF is king.
4. PPF is probably $2k minimum to do all the hood and all the fenders. I'll highlight mine in an upcoming video in my YotaMD Build. Mine cost around $2,500 I think. Pricey, but now I can forget about the paint doors-forward for years. Just maintain it like normal and it shouldn't oxidize or UV fade and stone chips should be minimized if not totally eliminated.

I think PPF is good for most any car. No matter how you slice it, PPF is cheaper than repainting. If you have good paint now and want to keep it that way in 5 years, get PPF. I think it's reasonable to want that whether you do trails every week or once a year. Without PPF, most 100 series are at a high risk to have paint failure by 2025, IMO.

Paint code, Riverrock green mica, I believe that is 1C3. This is base/clear?

Yes, certainly possible that I didn't go deep enough, understand what you're saying.

 

[Jackland]

Second the recommendation for sealents, those are similar to waxes but are more durable. You can go down the rabbit hole on this topic. I think most pro detailers are now recommending a ceramic coating which is a 'semi permanent' coating that is applied annually (some last longer/shorter depending on application and material quality). Even for the home detailer they are difficult to apply so I would recommend having a pro do it.

That being said there are some ceramic spray on coatings that you can apply after each wash (prior to the drying step) that help maintain the paint protection (meguiars makes a decent ceramic spray coating that is available at most auto parts stores). The spray on type are different than a coating but are super easy to apply and therefore can be done more frequently.

One thing to note, Carnuba (natural) based waxes degrade rather quickly and offer less protection than synthetic based waxes. They offer a deeper gloss when present but dont last. I use Finish Kare 1000p which is a wax/sealent. I usually reapply when i notice that water isnt beading properly, maybe every 6 months (though im not very good about keeping track of how often it needs it. Prep is important too. It sounds like you have compounded the car but making sure its clean and free of any fallout on the surface is a good way to ensure the best finish. Using something like a claybar or equivalent product prior to wax application will ensure the best results. There are MANY detailing forums and videos online. AmmoNYC on youtube is a great channel; he sells his own products which are (very) expensive but the principles he uses are very sound. Chemical brothers (available on amazon) has good products but they are generally considered overpriced for what you get. They are a good alternative to store brands if you prefer buying online though.

Yes, I used a clay bar both times prior to the mcguires ultimate compound, and washes I'm using the mcquires gold glass soap. The first time I sprayed water on it afterwards I was so amused at how the water not just beaded but it was like it jumped off the paint. I'll check out AmmoNYC. I definitely lost track of time between waxes, it had to have been 10-11 mos. Are the mcguires products in general considered to be high quality in the detailing world? Or more of just marketing hype that the average hack (like me) will fall for?

 

[RoughOne]

Ceramic coating is the latest and greatest thing since Turtle wax!

 

[NoVaGator]

check this out

 

[suprarx7nut]

Paint code, Riverrock green mica, I believe that is 1C3. This is base/clear?

Yes, certainly possible that I didn't go deep enough, understand what you're saying.

Yeah, that should be a base/clear. Might even have a third layer, but point being, it's not single stage. I'd keep do another round of compound/polish. If you're doing this by hand you're not going to rub through the clear unless you're some sort of olympian polisher. If using a DA polisher, it'd take time, but you could burn through if you were determined enough.

I'd do some synthetic wax after the polish and see if it stays nice. If not, go at it with the compound again, then polish, then wax and repeat the process. Once you verify it looks good for longer than a week or so, I think you're safe to use a sealer or ceramic coating.

Yes, I used a clay bar both times prior to the mcguires ultimate compound, and washes I'm using the mcquires gold glass soap. The first time I sprayed water on it afterwards I was so amused at how the water not just beaded but it was like it jumped off the paint. I'll check out AmmoNYC. I definitely lost track of time between waxes, it had to have been 10-11 mos. Are the mcguires products in general considered to be high quality in the detailing world? Or more of just marketing hype that the average hack (like me) will fall for?

For me it goes Turtle Wax<Mothers/Meguires<Adams<another tier or two<AMMO. Realistically, Turtle Wax is plenty good to maintain a driven Toyota from 15 years ago. My garage is mostly Meguires/Mothers, but it's most important to just get something on there so the paint isn't oxidizing as fast.

 

[Kabanstva]

If your clearcoat is oxidized that’s not a good sign. Only a matter of time before complete clearcoat failure. Oxidized single stage is common and expected but once the clear starts going matte, turtle waxing your paint won’t really do much besides add a tiny fraction of gloss for a few weeks. The only cars ive seen with “normal” oxidized clearcoated paints are the older Subaru’s (pre 2015), but Subaru is notorious for having one of the most difficult paints to work on and maintain because it’s what some people call “semi-hardened” or sticky paint that only reacts well to a few types of polishes, regular stuff doesn’t work as it should. Toyota clearcoat is normal and should not oxidize unless the car is from a desert climate and say outside for years and years.

Typically the plastic parts will fail first and all the top horizontal panels. Look at any LX from the south that wasn’t garage kept and has some miles, all the plastic body cladding will look matte and no amount of wax is fixing that. Polishing will make a temporary improvement but actually make the problem worse long term, same story as buffing yellow plastic headlights. Temporary fix.

 

[Manhattan]

My 100 suffered from what @Kabanstva mentioned - failed clear coat. It looked great for a while... started to fade, got buffed (a lot) and looked great... started to fade, got buffed... Repeat a few times.

When it got to this stage...

... I said *#$^ it and got out the 1000 and 1500 grit sand paper... and made it worse. But, I had nothing to lose. The clear had failed.

BUT this was NOT Toyota clear - the hood and tops of the fenders had been repainted when it was a couple years old, apparently with a cheaper clear coat.

I used a few "FadeBeGone" wipes and it looks great now:

(just kidding... I just had the front end repainted)