Overland Power

[FrazzledHunter]

Getting ready for COTR. Driving the 200 as a daily this week until we leave have the EcoFlow flow all set up and just running it to see how goes. Well today didn’t go very well. It’s 90+ degrees here in Kansas City and today I let the fridge go with the Delta 2 hooked to it while the truck was parked in a parking lot at work all day. Black truck, hot sun on black asphalt. I probably should’ve realized this wasn’t gonna be a recipe for success essentially the delta 2 shuts itself down if it gets too hot and you can’t charge it or do anything with it until it cools down, which is hard to do when it’s 90°. The good news is the fridge kept running and is still running on its own battery, but if I was camping somewhere without access to Power, I’d be in trouble right now. The fridge is about done and my Delta 2 is at 7% with the temp light blinking. If I were camping, I’d have to hook the fridge to the cigarette lighter of the truck and just turn the truck on to keep the fridge going.

It’s 84° now with a low of like 73 tonight I’m trying to decide if I just let the battery sit in the closed up truck and see how it is in the morning as an experiment or if I should bring the thing inside and cool it down.

Edit: decided to take it into the house to cool it down. Took a while, but eventually the high temp and battery failure lights went out and it’s charging now. I’m very relieved. I was worried I fried it three days before I leave for Colorado.

Am I try to see if I can either borrow or buy 100 W solar panel or something just as a back up. I think the other thing I need to keep in mind is that in my normal Overlanding scenario I would be driving most of the day and I would have the AC running in the truck in which case I wouldn’t probably have overheated the battery. Letting it sit all day in the sun in a parking lot was not a great idea.

We recently ran into the heat problem in spades when we camped at Devil's Garden campground inside Arches National Park. We had daily 100F+ heat, 10-30 mph winds and DUST. We kept the Dometic fridge and the Yeti 1500X cool enough so they would cool and charge when we were driving with air conditioning but if we stopped for a 3 hour hike the interior was blisteting hot. So hot that the Dometic couldn't cool and the Yeti couldn't charge. Also, you couldn't crack the windows or sunroof to vent the heat due to the dust kicked up by the high winds. I was paeticularly worried about dust being sucked into the units by their cooling fans.

So out of desperation I opened 2 windows half way and used blue painters tape to attach and seal cloth hand towels over the openings. This actually worked as the high winds moved a bit of air through the cabin while the cloth towels filtered most of the dust.

I was able to keep the temperature in the cabin down at night simply by cracking the windows as nighttime temperatures went down to the upper 60's and the winds died down which eliminated dust worries.

What I need to get/design for Moab scenarios is a system that takes filtered air from the outside and blows it into the cabin. Bruder trailers of Australia has such a system although it's designed to pressurize the trailer to keep dust out, not cool. Enough air volume would do both.

 

[lx200inAR]

We recently ran into the heat problem in spades when we camped at Devil's Garden campground inside Arches National Park. We had daily 100F+ heat, 10-30 mph winds and DUST. We kept the Dometic fridge and the Yeti 1500X cool enough so they would cool and charge when we were driving with air conditioning but if we stopped for a 3 hour hike the interior was blisteting hot. So hot that the Dometic couldn't cool and the Yeti couldn't charge. Also, you couldn't crack the windows or sunroof to vent the heat due to the dust kicked up by the high winds. I was paeticularly worried about dust being sucked into the units by their cooling fans.

So out of desperation I opened 2 windows half way and used blue painters tape to attach and seal cloth hand towels over the openings. This actually worked as the high winds moved a bit of air through the cabin while the cloth towels filtered most of the dust.

I was able to keep the temperature in the cabin down at night simply by cracking the windows as nighttime temperatures went down to the upper 60's and the winds died down which eliminated dust worries.

What I need to get/design for Moab scenarios is a system that takes filtered air from the outside and blows it into the cabin. Bruder trailers of Australia has such a system although it's designed to pressurize the trailer to keep dust out, not cool. Enough air volume would do both.

Have you looked at the window socks they sell on Amazon fairly cheap? They'd probably be a good solution for this provided they filter the dust enough. I have a set, but have yet to have occasion to use them.

This is the one I have, there are tons by many different sellers, i'm sure they are all similar. Maybe a double layer would work with the dust, if one set isn't enough.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00Y9SM9M6?tag=ihco-20

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Have you looked at the window socks they sell on Amazon fairly cheap? They'd probably be a good solution for this provided they filter the dust enough. I have a set, but have yet to have occasion to use them.

This is the one I have, there are tons by many different sellers, i'm sure they are all similar. Maybe a double layer would work with the dust, if one set isn't enough.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00Y9SM9M6?tag=ihco-20

Never heard of these. The issue would be dust I think.

The solution just has to be more complicated LOL.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Never heard of these. The issue would be dust I think.

The solution just has to be more complicated LOL.

Right now at Mammoth Campground getting 150W from my Merlin XP-170 to my Goal Zero 1500X when in full sun. Best part is the air is cool and unlike Moab, NO DUST so windows can remain open.

 

[kcjaz]

Added a 300 wh EcoFlow River to my setup to run loads in the tent while camping. It ran my tent mate’s c-pap machine. It would run down to zero over night and we just charged the next day while driving.

The system worked great for COTR. We left Thursday the 10th and are in Ouray now. I keep the alt charger set at 300 watts and as long as we drive 3 hours or so, we can hit camp with everything charged.

I think the system is pretty good for Colorado camping with moderate temps and trying to park in shaded areas with windows cracked when stopping in towns to explore or eat. For hot weather it may not be enough capacity but don’t like camping in heat anyway.

The Glacier fridge plus the Delta 2 is a total 1324 wh which seems to be enough if driving every day. The River is another 300 wh which is just margin if I don’t have load like a c-pap running overnight. I typically was at 36% on the Delta 2 and still 100% on the Glacier battery when we’d get up in the morning. I could run my induction burned for eggs then hit the road. The only issue we had was sometime the fridges cigarette plug would shake loose and stop charging the fridge.

I need to add some solar to be able to be off parked and off grid for multiple days. Seems like ~250 -300 wh of solar would work out.

 

[kcjaz]

500 W alt charger is on sale now for $259. Though I have the 800w charger, I do not see any need to ever charge at that rate. 500 is the max I’ve done and generally 300w is enough for me with 3 hours of driving per day.

 

[bloc]

500 W alt charger is on sale now for $259. Though I have the 800w charger, I do not see any need to ever charge at that rate. 500 is the max I’ve done and generally 300w is enough for me with 3 hours of driving per day.

Between the smaller gauge wire to run to the unit from the front, and much smaller wire between the charger and battery, this could be significantly better for packaging even though the unit itself isn't any smaller.

It does take up one of the two XT60 ports on the back of the battery though, if that's an issue for anyone.

 

[prharper]

A Victron Smart charger has worked fine for me. It's worked fine for a couple of years. But you have to set it up a certain way.

I have a Goal Zero Yeti 1500X and a Victron Orion TR Smart 12-24|15 DC charger running in power supply mode connected to the 1500X's charging input. I use the Victron and not the alternator charger sold by Goal Zero because the alternator charger, while affording up to 600W of charging, was not available at the time I got the 1500X.
Some quick facts:

• As you mention, the charging input, at least on Yeti (and some others) is its solar input. All Goal Zero chargers including their AC wall chargers plug into that input.
• Run the Smart Tr in power supply mode.
  • You are emulating a solar panel, not charging a battery.
  • The Goal Zero MPPT controller behind its solar input (to which the Victron is connected) thinks it's connected to a solar array. The fact it really isn't doesn't matter. The MPPT controller just reacts to voltage/power changes.
    • I *think* what is happening is that as the MPPT controller tries to alter the voltage to get more current it doesn't get it and it leaves things alone until the next sweep.
• I get a solid 360-380W of charging from the Victron if I use a cooling fan; otherwise the Victron de-rates to stay cool.
  • I built a DIY portable charger that's ugly but works really well.
• The voltage does drop to approx. 19V at max output of 380W however this is above the threshold of 14V for the Yeti 1500X to charge.
  • The draw current on the Victron at max output is 40A/12v at its input.
• Victron Smart Tr Orion have voltage input thresholds that tell the Orion to stop charging at a given voltage and what voltage to restart charging.
  • You do not need any engine sensing or wiring beyond this; I have my unit shutting off within seconds of turning off the engine.

@FrazzledHunter We have similar setup. I installed that new Victron XS 12/12 50A DC to DC charger. Much smaller form factor and it runs cooler than the Orion DC DC 12/12 30A Charger and much more cooler than the Orion DC DC 12/24 30A Charger.

I installed the new XS DC to DC charger earlier in the year, mounted to drawer frame (to charge a LiPo in rear cabin) and didn't think about the Yeti 1500x... Based on some of your testing and measurements, do you think this XS can charge it?

It has power supply and charger modes. Would be nice to not have to haul the 12/24 homemade charger kit with fan. Be easier tap into this instead.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

@FrazzledHunter We have similar setup. I installed that new Victron XS 12/12 50A DC to DC charger. Much smaller form factor and it runs cooler than the Orion DC DC 12/12 30A Charger and much more cooler than the Orion DC DC 12/24 30A Charger.

I installed the new XS DC to DC charger earlier in the year, mounted to drawer frame (to charge a LiPo in rear cabin) and didn't think about the Yeti 1500x... Based on some of your testing and measurements, do you think this XS can charge it?

It has power supply and charger modes. Would be nice to not have to haul the 12/24 homemade charger kit with fan. Be easier tap into this instead.

View attachment 4009264
View attachment 4009265

If i read your post correctly, the answer is no. Because, the Goal Zero Yetis require 14+ volts to charge.

EDIT: WAIT!!! I just saw that the unit can put out 12-17V!!! That should work.

This is because all the Yetis charge through the inputs to which you connect solar panels*. Behind those inputs is their MPPT controller. It has no idea if it's talking to their 120/240/600W A/C charger, or the car cigarrette lighter charger or a real solar panel. In the case of the chargers I think the MPPT controller tries to vary voltage to get more current. This simply fails. In the case of a real solar panel this succeeds and the power fluctuates all over the place as you would expect from a real solar panel. I have ovserved the two behaviors using a DC watt meter.

This is why I had to go to a 12-24 set up in power supply mode.

*Goal Zero did offer a hi power 600W car charger that you could hard wire to the car. This is a different animal: it mounts in the unit in one of the slots on the top. They offered it about a year after the 1500X was introduced but by then I had the Victron 12-24/15 working and didn't buy it. I understand there were problems with it and it’s no longer available AFAIK.

 

[prharper]

If i read your post correctly, the answer is no. Because, the Goal Zero Yetis require 14+ volts to charge.

EDIT: WAIT!!! I just saw that the unit can put out 12-17V!!! That should work.

This is because all the Yetis charge through the inputs to which you connect solar panels*. Behind those inputs is their MPPT controller. It has no idea if it's talking to their 120/240/600W A/C charger, or the car cigarrette lighter charger or a real solar panel. In the case of the chargers I think the MPPT controller tries to vary voltage to get more current. This simply fails. In the case of a real solar panel this succeeds and the power fluctuates all over the place as you would expect from a real solar panel. I have ovserved the two behaviors using a DC watt meter.

This is why I had to go to a 12-24 set up in power supply mode.

*Goal Zero did offer a hi power 600W car charger that you could hard wire to the car. This is a different animal: it mounts in the unit in one of the slots on the top. They offered it about a year after the 1500X was introduced but by then I had the Victron 12-24/15 working and didn't buy it. I understand there were problems with it and it’s no longer available AFAIK.

Correct it can output up to 17v so I may give it a try but have to modify my power wiring from Victron XS. Will add Anderson plug to be able to swap outputs from LIPO to Goal Zero 1500x charging input. Nice to have options.

Yes, the optional Goal Zero charger direct to starter battery has had a few versions and recalls. One due to cable melting. I don’t trust it nor do I need it with my configuration.
Victron is solid.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Correct it can output up to 17v so I may give it a try but have to modify my power wiring from Victron XS. Will add Anderson plug to be able to swap outputs from LIPO to Goal Zero 1500x charging input. Nice to have options.

Yes, the optional Goal Zero charger direct to starter battery has had a few versions and recalls. One due to cable melting. I don’t trust it nor do I need it with my configuration.
Victron is solid.

Victron, only Victron, Victron all day. I'm ripping out the SRNE MPPT controller on my trailer and replacing it with a Victron Smart Solar 100-50. I just don't like my trailer to be sullied with a unit whose user interface has error messages in Chinese.

BTW I'm having wattage envy.
I looked in my Victron Demo Library for that unit. There are a couple of thoughts I had.

• One is that this unit can be a Battery Charger or a Power Supply just like mine. I think you will have to set the unit in Power Supply mode to charge the Yeti. That's what I did with mine to fake out the MPPT controller in the Yeti. So if the goal is to charge both your Lithium and your Yeti at the same time that might not work as the voltages are different.
• Second, the ground on your unit isn't isolated, on mine it is. Now that might not matter too much electrically but your +/- to your Yeti will share a ground with (I assume?) your auto chassis. I went with an isolated ground (+/- in and +/- out) out of fear/speculation that an electrical catastrophe that put power on the ground on either the Yeti or the car could cause serious damage. But I'm paranoid. I also speculated that the Yeti (or any device) sharing a chassis ground could cause noise on the radio or sound system. But I have no solid proof that this would happen, just that it could/might. So again, I'm paranoid. I hate surprises.

I'm anxious to hear how this works out.

 

[prharper]

I added some additional wiring, Anderson connectors and ground bus bar to my existing Victron XS DC to DC charger setup to accommodate charging another battery > Yeti Goal Zero 1500x.

Had to remove top of ADGU drawer to access.

Note the Victron XS is housed in a plastic case unlike the other Victron DC & MPPT chargers I own. I broke one of the corner mounts.

Using the Victron connect app, I setup in Power Supply mode and adjusted the output to 17v (the max).
It works and charges the Goal Zero 1500x with around 380w, fluctuates some.

For comparison, I connected my older Victron Orion DC to DC 12/24 that I have used to charge in the past.
Putting out about the same watts and noticed it's more consistent. Glad I can now leave this charger at home and use the Victron XS instead. Created a new cable for it to keep in storage cover. I rarely take the Goal Zero with me anymore but it's nice to have options and not lug around the Orion charger with fan.

Now I have more flexibility with charging batteries and switching power sources using the Anderson connectors. I can swap connectors to charge the 100ah lithium OR the Goal Zero (need to select corresponding profile in Victron App). Can also disconnect fridge power from Aux battery and connect directly to the lithium. Side note: At Overland Expo last week, I connected a Victron MPPT solar charger and EcoFlow 220w panel to a spare Anderson connector and it worked great charging the lithium.

The Victron XS runs way cooler than the 12/24 Orion, much smaller and lighter. Only drawback I see is the plastic case.

 

[bloc]

My ecoflow delta 3 plus did something weird on this last trip.. I hadn't used it in 2+ months but got it out of the closet and loaded everything up for a short trip to CO. First night in the truck, only my IceCo V35S running on it.. I wake up to find the unit powered off. Turn it back on and it shows 35%. Fridge starts.. bank gets to about 32% and shuts off again. No clue why it's doing this.. the lower limit is set at 10% IIRC.

The fridge was running more that night than any other, but it didn't give me problems for the rest of the trip after charging, even going below that ~30% power-off threshold on purpose. I updated the firmware when I got home and let the fridge run for a couple weeks alternating between charged and approaching 10% and it never shut down again..

I hope this doesn't pop its head up again on the next trip. I'll try to remember to test it before the trip just to help my odds.

 

[UPR LC]

My ecoflow delta 3 plus did something weird on this last trip.. I hadn't used it in 2+ months but got it out of the closet and loaded everything up for a short trip to CO. First night in the truck, only my IceCo V35S running on it.. I wake up to find the unit powered off. Turn it back on and it shows 35%. Fridge starts.. bank gets to about 32% and shuts off again. No clue why it's doing this.. the lower limit is set at 10% IIRC.

The fridge was running more that night than any other, but it didn't give me problems for the rest of the trip after charging, even going below that ~30% power-off threshold on purpose. I updated the firmware when I got home and let the fridge run for a couple weeks alternating between charged and approaching 10% and it never shut down again..

I hope this doesn't pop its head up again on the next trip. I'll try to remember to test it before the trip just to help my odds.

I had something similar just happen with my Delta 2. Went to run it for a day trip and same thing happened, although it was showing 80% charge.

Googled it, performed the factory reset for the BMS, then it showed 50-some% charge, wouldn't take a charge, wouldn't do the firmware update because it was too low of charge.

I contacted customer support, they determined nothing can be done and they need me to ship it back and get a warranty replacement.

Received my warranty replacement and it charges fine, but I have not tested it on a trip yet.

Whole thing makes me leery and makes me realize I need redundancy. I have redundancy to run the fridge off of the vehicle battery if I need to but it is not ideal.

I think the mass market of lithium ion batteries and the computers that control them (BMS) has introduced a failure point that the old dumb lead acid batteries do not have. Just my 2 cents, and I do love my Delta 2.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

I added some additional wiring, Anderson connectors and ground bus bar to my existing Victron XS DC to DC charger setup to accommodate charging another battery > Yeti Goal Zero 1500x.

Had to remove top of ADGU drawer to access.

View attachment 4010318

Note the Victron XS is housed in a plastic case unlike the other Victron DC & MPPT chargers I own. I broke one of the corner mounts.
View attachment 4010324

Using the Victron connect app, I setup in Power Supply mode and adjusted the output to 17v (the max).
It works and charges the Goal Zero 1500x with around 380w, fluctuates some.
View attachment 4010327
For comparison, I connected my older Victron Orion DC to DC 12/24 that I have used to charge in the past.
Putting out about the same watts and noticed it's more consistent. Glad I can now leave this charger at home and use the Victron XS instead. Created a new cable for it to keep in storage cover. I rarely take the Goal Zero with me anymore but it's nice to have options and not lug around the Orion charger with fan.
View attachment 4010350
View attachment 4010348

Now I have more flexibility with charging batteries and switching power sources using the Anderson connectors. I can swap connectors to charge the 100ah lithium OR the Goal Zero (need to select corresponding profile in Victron App). Can also disconnect fridge power from Aux battery and connect directly to the lithium. Side note: At Overland Expo last week, I connected a Victron MPPT solar charger and EcoFlow 220w panel to a spare Anderson connector and it worked great charging the lithium.

View attachment 4010351
View attachment 4010352

The Victron XS runs way cooler than the 12/24 Orion, much smaller and lighter. Only drawback I see is the plastic case.

I added some additional wiring, Anderson connectors and ground bus bar to my existing Victron XS DC to DC charger setup to accommodate charging another battery > Yeti Goal Zero 1500x.

Had to remove top of ADGU drawer to access.

View attachment 4010318

Note the Victron XS is housed in a plastic case unlike the other Victron DC & MPPT chargers I own. I broke one of the corner mounts.
View attachment 4010324

Using the Victron connect app, I setup in Power Supply mode and adjusted the output to 17v (the max).
It works and charges the Goal Zero 1500x with around 380w, fluctuates some.
View attachment 4010327
For comparison, I connected my older Victron Orion DC to DC 12/24 that I have used to charge in the past.
Putting out about the same watts and noticed it's more consistent. Glad I can now leave this charger at home and use the Victron XS instead. Created a new cable for it to keep in storage cover. I rarely take the Goal Zero with me anymore but it's nice to have options and not lug around the Orion charger with fan.
View attachment 4010350
View attachment 4010348

Now I have more flexibility with charging batteries and switching power sources using the Anderson connectors. I can swap connectors to charge the 100ah lithium OR the Goal Zero (need to select corresponding profile in Victron App). Can also disconnect fridge power from Aux battery and connect directly to the lithium. Side note: At Overland Expo last week, I connected a Victron MPPT solar charger and EcoFlow 220w panel to a spare Anderson connector and it worked great charging the lithium.

View attachment 4010351
View attachment 4010352

The Victron XS runs way cooler than the 12/24 Orion, much smaller and lighter. Only drawback I see is the plastic case.

The Yeti does cut back on power draw as it gets full but 388W @ 91%, are you getting the wattage you expect?

 

[TeCKis300]

My ecoflow delta 3 plus did something weird on this last trip.. I hadn't used it in 2+ months but got it out of the closet and loaded everything up for a short trip to CO. First night in the truck, only my IceCo V35S running on it.. I wake up to find the unit powered off. Turn it back on and it shows 35%. Fridge starts.. bank gets to about 32% and shuts off again. No clue why it's doing this.. the lower limit is set at 10% IIRC.

The fridge was running more that night than any other, but it didn't give me problems for the rest of the trip after charging, even going below that ~30% power-off threshold on purpose. I updated the firmware when I got home and let the fridge run for a couple weeks alternating between charged and approaching 10% and it never shut down again..

I hope this doesn't pop its head up again on the next trip. I'll try to remember to test it before the trip just to help my odds.

This is likely related to the use of LifePO4 batteries in the Ecoflow. Not a bad thing as they have better durability, temp tolerance, and cycle life.

The drawback being that LifePO4 have really flat discharge curves. It's hard for the Battery Management System (BMS) to track State of Charge (SOC) accurately in the middle of the discharge curve. It's likely that your battery was in a deep state of discharge but inaccurately reflecting 30% capacity. Extended non-use and storage will also cause drift.

Solution is to exercise the battery. Charge it full before going on a trip. Don't be afraid to discharge it and charge it back. It helps the BMS calibrate SOC better. As mentioned, cycle life is a strength of LifePO4.

This characteristic is also going to affect other brands using LifePO4.

I have a Goal Zero 1000 at end of life now after ~6 years. It's been great, and it uses lithium-ion. Next time around, I'm getting a LifePO4 based battery.

 

[bloc]

This is likely related to the use of LifePO4 batteries in the Ecoflow. Not a bad thing as they have better durability, temp tolerance, and cycle life.

The drawback being that LifePO4 have really flat discharge curves. It's hard for the Battery Management System (BMS) to track State of Charge (SOC) accurately in the middle of the discharge curve. It's likely that your battery was in a deep state of discharge but inaccurately reflecting 30% capacity. Extended non-use and storage will also cause drift.

Solution is to exercise the battery. Charge it full before going on a trip. Don't be afraid to discharge it and charge it back. It helps the BMS calibrate SOC better. As mentioned, cycle life is a strength of LifePO4.

This characteristic is also going to affect other brands using LifePO4.

I have a Goal Zero 1000 at end of life now after ~6 years. It's been great, and it uses lithium-ion. Next time around, I'm getting a LifePO4 based battery.

That's great info, I appreciate it. Technically it was plugged in to the wall while in storage but it would have just sat there at 65% or whatever the number was for a solid 2 months. It makes sense it would need to see some cycling up and down for the BMS to maintain any precision in calibration.

 

[bloc]

I had something similar just happen with my Delta 2. Went to run it for a day trip and same thing happened, although it was showing 80% charge.

Googled it, performed the factory reset for the BMS, then it showed 50-some% charge, wouldn't take a charge, wouldn't do the firmware update because it was too low of charge.

I contacted customer support, they determined nothing can be done and they need me to ship it back and get a warranty replacement.

Received my warranty replacement and it charges fine, but I have not tested it on a trip yet.

Whole thing makes me leery and makes me realize I need redundancy. I have redundancy to run the fridge off of the vehicle battery if I need to but it is not ideal.

I think the mass market of lithium ion batteries and the computers that control them (BMS) has introduced a failure point that the old dumb lead acid batteries do not have. Just my 2 cents, and I do love my Delta 2.

Add me to the list. I just sent my Delta 3 plus in for warranty. Tried to top it up for the recent winter storm and it immediately started throwing errors. The display would show 53% when first turned on then glitch and drop to 0.

Ecoflow was pretty good to deal with on the phone.. initially they would only commit to a refurb unit potentially with blemishes, but at least 90% remaining capacity. I explained that while mine was six months old, it was also in immaculate condition and had been used for only one roadtrip, and that it was disappointing to know I’d end up with something significantly more aged. They relented and agreed to replace it with a new unit.

It hasn’t arrived yet so we’ll see when it does.. but I’m with you. A little nervous about the long term reliability of these things, but happy that at least so far they seem to be standing behind the product. And I just checked.. they carry a 5-year warranty. So that helps too.