OT - Dow down 777 at close

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I typically avoid any political commentary here but this is a big deal. I fully believe that the "bailout plan" has been misconstrued as some sort of "fat cat" bailout, but it's solidly a bailout plan for the middle class. The percentage of plain folk that appear to be against it are clearly uninformed to the consequences of not acting. The Dow is a bellweather of the overall economy, whose performance is alarming but the real issue here is the credit market. Without gov't intervention the credit will go away, but it's what drives the economy. Forget about 401K losses (substantial), the biggest impact without available credit. Many companies use short term credit to make payroll - without it they will fail. Many small businesses use credit to even out the peaks and troughs of the market will faill without credit. All of this will result in job losses that willl result in other business failures down stream to the point where we are at least in a severe recession. Even for those not affected by the downturn, who want to finance a car - forget it. Need a new house - forget it. Credit card debt impact is still uncertain.

Some will argue a "free market" approach that will equalize everything by itself (I expect comment from Steve at this point). The reality is that the economy has not been "free" for hundreds of years. In fact, the current crisis is due to DE-regulation of the financial mechanism in th3e 1990s.
 
Dude....stop polluting our little world here.

Thanks.

As someone who was already polluted before all this, I'm pretty cranky...
 

Marco, who are you? Why are you here? Do you think we are a friendly group? Do you think we want you lurking around? Where did you come from? Are you purple with pink polka-dots and have tiny little antenna? Do you know where Roswell is? Do you have a Toyota? Is it 4WD? Is it something other an another 80-series? If it's an 80-series is the color 6M1? Mike likes 6M1. :censor:

:cheers:

:flipoff2:
 
As someone who was already polluted before all this, I'm pretty cranky...

Wasn't directed at you at all Greg.

Was to that MarcoPolo guy who pollutes chat with his bile and is invading our little world here.

-o-

ps: to Greg's first point: To be honest with you--and I know this goes against my political POV--I kinda want things to go to hell in a handbasket.....I might lose (both) of my jobs, but to be honest with you, things in this country have to change, dramatically, and irrevocably. We are at a tipping point if you ask me. There needs to be a systemic change in how we go about being Americans, how we go about being capitalists, how we go about being consumers, how we go about being world citizens (and we are, no matter how badly the Bush Admin. has destroyed any credibility we have in the world), how we go about being good people...
 
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There needs to be a systemic change in how we go about being Americans, how we go about being capitalists, how we go about being consumers, how we go about being world citizens...

Exactly, we need to let people who screw up pay the price. I don't care if it's joe on the street or some mega-million-dollar-a-year dude on Wall Street. We need to get away from the-government-owes-me entitlement (it's called Marxism). FEMA is a waste of taxpayer dollars. The government should not be in the free insurance business.
 
There needs to be a systemic change in how we go about being Americans, how we go about being capitalists, how we go about being consumers, how we go about being world citizens (and we are, no matter how badly the Bush Admin. has destroyed any credibility we have in the world), how we go about being good people...

Well put global perspective.
 
Exactly, we need to let people who screw up pay the price. I don't care if it's joe on the street or some mega-million-dollar-a-year dude on Wall Street. We need to get away from the-government-owes-me entitlement (it's called Marxism). FEMA is a waste of taxpayer dollars. The government should not be in the free insurance business.

In a vacuum I would agree, and I'll also admit that my attitude is somewhat self-serving given my personal circumstances.

The reality is that the people who screwed up were in government. Deregulation under the Bush administration allowed the lenders to persue loans from lendees that otherwise couldn't or shouldn't have been approved otherwise. Call it greed, poor planning or stupidity but it was not the American middle class that put itself in this situation, but they will bear the brunt of the problem.

A lot of people say that the the free market mechanism should just be let to equalize the problem. But the reality is that the there has been no free market for a hundred years or more. Every country has been involved in manipulating it's economy and the US is no exception. Once this genie has been let out of the bottle you can't step back when there is a problem and "let the market handle it". Government has played a roll all along and needs to be involved in a fix as well.

Business failures, rampant unemployment, no credit for buying homes or cars, significant devaluation of retirement savings and all the other impacts of an economic failure really only hurts the middle class. The "bailout" is for them (us), not the fat cats. None of us are old enough to have experienced the great depression and I, for one, don't need to add that adventure to my life experience list.

Sorry for the rant and the bandwidth. I have alot of time on my hands...
 
Political discussions on a forum that is comprised of a diverse group of people that consider each other as close personal friends is simply not a good idea guys.

Same with any complex discussions that have an emotionally charged topic.

I really wish we could just take this over to the 'Mud Chat area for those that feel strongly enough to write down their POV in a public forum.

My 2c.

-Mike-
 
I guess this is more controversial than centipedes so I'll shut up.
 
This is even more controversial than proclaiming that 80-series Land Cruisers are better than any other series
 
I believe what was said (recently) was "the best off-road luxury SUV ever made." Who in their right mind can argue with that fact?

:D

-Mike-
 
I believe what was said (recently) was "the best off-road luxury SUV ever made." Who in their right mind can argue with that fact?

:D

-Mike-

Oh, Oh. Oh ... pick me, pick me!
 
Someone tell the flower boy to sit down and shut up. There are adults trying to have a conversation here.

-B-
 
Mike,

Are you a little torqued today? You seem meaner than usual. As long as it's directed toward Jon or Steve then I'm ok with it.
 
I'm used to it. At work I keep first aid cream in my desk for the teeth marks in my butt.
 

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