Opinions on buying an FJ40 or an FJ45 in similar condition

[Ample]

That steering wheel would be a 8/80 or later in the US market but. Plus the transfer case shifter looks like the later split case version. The earlier ones have a smaller thread for the knob on the end. So what needs to be check is where the hand brake is. Most markets it would be on the axle but a few models in some market it was on the back of the transfer case. Starting with the 83 model year our split case chanced here in the US. So even if these has a hand brake on the back of the trasnfer it may not just switch over to another transfer case. Your best option might be having it on the axle. As for putting the FJ40 body on the 80 series will require a lot of custom work. The wheel base of the 80 series is a lot longer than the 40 series. And fitting the 80 series running gear into a FJ40 wouldn't be easy either. If you plan on going six cylinder and automatic transmission stretching the wheel base is almost a must.

In my case I thinking of going automatic in my FJ45. My wife has no interest in learning to drive a stick shift and of all my FJ4X series the pickup is the only she likes. The big plus is extra drive line length is not a issue. The idea of putting a FJ45 cab and body on a 80 series chassis would be a lot easier. I believe someone on this site has already done it.

I think whichever way I look at it I have to make some tough decisions.

1. What if I purchased the FJ45 - it has the longer wheelbase, which will then allow for an easier fit of the 1HDT engine with auto gearbox. However can I use the FJ45 frame if I was to use the 1HDT engine, gearbox and axles - or does this require serious modifications (for the axles / suspension)?

2. I find the 45's too long... and I dread the thought of driving it through our traffic packed roads.
Can I shorten the frame on the 45 and extend the cab / body and still have the 1HDT engine, auto box and axles? If I was to shorten the 45 frame by cutting off the part after the rear wheel arches how short can it go - what will be an approximate frame length?

3. In effect what I am trying to do with (2) above is to make an FJ45 into a longer FJ40... but a shorter FJ45. This would be great as it will also allow me to add some seats in the extended cab for my kids and also some more space to haul my gear.
The above (2) and (3) will save me costs of buying in an 80 frame and paperwork. I don't think the 45 frame and paperwork comes at a bad price - considering how tough it is to get a 40 or 45 here. Buying the 45 saves me $750 upfront.

Thanks again for your input - I really appreciate it.

 

[Ample]

Just curious, do you have 60 or 70 series LC's there...the money seems high but if there are no FJ40's there maybe its what you have to pay...If there are 60/70 series LC's there you have your source for running gear parts..If Toyota trucks (diesels) are plentiful you may have a source for a engine..I think you said Kenya, if I wanted a 40 and was in your shoes I would be doing some serious thinking out of the box. Like some say on here "anything can be fixed" it just depends on what you want..automatic, diesel, Rag top, hard top what ever...but know you will spend some serious time and money...I would not hesitate to modify a frame, guys on here build them from scratch, but I would take my time and figure out what would be the most practical. Welcome and I wish you every sucess on your new FJ40 or 45 what ever you decide...Lee

Yes we do have a fair few 60 and 70 series here in Kenya. I can pick up a complete 60 series with body damage but good mechanically for $4500 with the paperwork..
... so effectively I could use the 60 frame, engine and gearbox + axles and transplant the 40 body onto the 60 frame. I will however be then getting the 4000cc diesel engine but not the auto box.

You are right about the serious thinking... my mechanic was just telling me we can graft a Toyota Shark power steering system into the 40 and it would work nicely.... they have done this to one of the 40's here in the past.

thank you for your good wishes... it helps!

 

[Living in the Past]

For what you are looking for I would look for a 43/44 mid wheel base in Japan. You have more room work with. The 60 series are wider and spring perches have to be moved to use a narrower 40 series frame. 80 series didn't have leaf springs at all so besides being even wider than the 60 series everything would have to be custom made. Same with almost any other Toyota engine they will not just bolt in. The mid wheel base offers more room than a FJ40 but easier to get around than a long wheel base pickup or even the troopy. If you have the money now import a mid wheel base cruiser you will be driving shortly. If you find a 8/80 with the hand brake on the rear axle the engine, transmission and transfer case transplant would be a lot easier and get you where you want to be. I guess it boils down to time, skills and shop available on which way you go.

 

[Ample]

Four seats = 40. As cool as 45s are, I can only see seating 3 max... So it all depends if that's a priority.

Rear windows are a little harder to source for a 45 in these parts... 40 glass is readily availible.

The extra length of a 45 would make it easier to fit in an auto. You could always stretch the 45 cab a couple of feet to make it a four seater... You'd have a smoother ride from the longer wheelbase, and still be able to haul stuff in the shorter box.

This is good stuff - it's giving me room for thought - literally

From what I can see the 40's specs compared to the 45's are as follows:

FJ Length Width Height Wheelbase (all dimensions in mm)
40 3840 1665 1950 2285

45 4900 1715 1935 2955

80 4780 1830 1785 2850

This post might help to get some visuals on the 45:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/fj45-owners-club/332651-fj45-4-door-frame-dimensions.html

The ideal scenario would be a slightly longer 40 but shorter than an 80 series.

 

[bikersmurf]

From what you're saying, if budget isn't a major concern, I'd buy the 40 and stretch it into a 44. The rear axle is 5.7" further back, and the body is 14" longer. Not as big as a 45, but with more space for kids and gear.

I'm considering it... But I'd be redoing a lot of work I've already done in the last 20 years... I'm thinking of using ambulance door windows and stretching it 18". If time, energy, and money weren't considerations, it'd be done.

 

[Ample]

From what you're saying, if budget isn't a major concern, I'd buy the 40 and stretch it into a 44. The rear axle is 5.7" further back, and the body is 14" longer. Not as big as a 45, but with more space for kids and gear.

I'm considering it... But I'd be redoing a lot of work I've already done in the last 20 years... I'm thinking of using ambulance door windows and stretching it 18". If time, energy, and money weren't considerations, it'd be done.

From what you're saying above, would I simply need:

1. To stretch the body or would I need to
2. Stretch the frame as well or
3. Simply stretch the body and move the axles 5.7" further back?

What about extending propshafts, etc for 3 above?

If the 40's length is 3840mm (151 inches) and the 45's are 192.9 inches are you saying a 44 would be 151 + 14 inches = 165 inches?

 

[Ample]

By the way, the FJ40 seller has just confirmed that it is a 1974 model.

 

[Copenhagen1]

By the way, the FJ40 seller has just confirmed that it is a 1974 model.

Really? That is interesting. I am not versed in all of the subtle differences in the world market 40's compared to the ones sold here in the USA but I would never have guessed 74 model.

Your first pic in this thread shows the handbrake on the floor. The hardtop sides are setup for the small vent windows. The hardtop has ambulance doors. The dash has the "seatbelt/brake" red light. These are all details that point to later 1970's not 1974. *edit....It also appears that the fuel tank is not in the cab which would put it between the frame rails under the bed. That makes it 79 or later.* The seller may be mistaken or it is a Frankenstein body on a 74 frame. Beware.

I have spent some time in Kenya and it seems like the 40s and 60's are both pretty rare sightings. It seemed to me like the 70 series was more available. I've only spent like 30-40 days there in the last 6 years though so don't take my word as gospel. Good luck with your quest.

 

[Living in the Past]

By the way, the FJ40 seller has just confirmed that it is a 1974 model.

The title may be 74 but I very serious doubt much else is. The side doors and windshield are 75 or never. Tub, rear doors, bib and running boards are 79 or newer. Hood is 78 or newer and the hard top sides are 77 or newer. I know different market got things a little different but that just to many things to soon. The frame had some changes in 79 making it so earlier tub would not just bolt on. One of the biggest changes in 79 was moving the gas tank from under the right front seat to under the tub. Besides being bigger it was safety issue. Hard to believe Africa got this five years before North America and Australia who Toyota was having to make changes for these markets since back in the late fifties and early sixties. The VIN will be located on the front of the frame right side. Get that number and the year can be checked out.

 

[bikersmurf]

From what you're saying above, would I simply need:

1. To stretch the body or would I need to
2. Stretch the frame as well or
3. Simply stretch the body and move the axles 5.7" further back?

What about extending propshafts, etc for 3 above?

If the 40's length is 3840mm (151 inches) and the 45's are 192.9 inches are you saying a 44 would be 151 + 14 inches = 165 inches?

1) stretch body & hardtop 14"
2) move axle back by using 60 series (or othe longer springs) and moving rear mount back.
3) longer propshaft.
4) add 14" to tail end of existing frame.
5) relocate shocks, longer brake lines, etc.

The main benefit is the structural integrity of the frame is not compromised by cutting it in half... The springs will still be under existing frame.

 

[Ample]

Really? That is interesting. I am not versed in all of the subtle differences in the world market 40's compared to the ones sold here in the USA but I would never have guessed 74 model.

Your first pic in this thread shows the handbrake on the floor. The hardtop sides are setup for the small vent windows. The hardtop has ambulance doors. The dash has the "seatbelt/brake" red light. These are all details that point to later 1970's not 1974. *edit....It also appears that the fuel tank is not in the cab which would put it between the frame rails under the bed. That makes it 79 or later.* The seller may be mistaken or it is a Frankenstein body on a 74 frame. Beware.

I have spent some time in Kenya and it seems like the 40s and 60's are both pretty rare sightings. It seemed to me like the 70 series was more available. I've only spent like 30-40 days there in the last 6 years though so don't take my word as gospel. Good luck with your quest.

I talked to the seller about various parts of this rig and he said that he was going to build it up but then his ideal donor (a 75) fell thru... so he decided to abandon the build. He was actually quite knowledgeable about Toy engines, etc.

I think what has happened is that the body is not the original body but has been fitted to the frame.

 

[Ample]

The title may be 74 but I very serious doubt much else is. The side doors and windshield are 75 or never. Tub, rear doors, bib and running boards are 79 or newer. Hood is 78 or newer and the hard top sides are 77 or newer. I know different market got things a little different but that just to many things to soon. The frame had some changes in 79 making it so earlier tub would not just bolt on. One of the biggest changes in 79 was moving the gas tank from under the right front seat to under the tub. Besides being bigger it was safety issue. Hard to believe Africa got this five years before North America and Australia who Toyota was having to make changes for these markets since back in the late fifties and early sixties. The VIN will be located on the front of the frame right side. Get that number and the year can be checked out.

As per your post - I seriously doubt Africa got newer rigs before the USA or OZ.

I am going to try see what the VIN says...

 

[Ample]

1) stretch body & hardtop 14"
2) move axle back by using 60 series (or othe longer springs) and moving rear mount back.
3) longer propshaft.
4) add 14" to tail end of existing frame.
5) relocate shocks, longer brake lines, etc.

The main benefit is the structural integrity of the frame is not compromised by cutting it in half... The springs will still be under existing frame.

Now that sounds fantastic BUT (yes there is a But)...

Would it not be simpler to shorten the 45 chassis...

I measured the FJ45 today and the body is 181 inches. From the end of the rear wheel arch to the back of the drop down hatch is 33 inches which effectively means 181 minus 33 = 148 inches. This is not much different to your suggestion above of 151 inches. I think I could live with a 3 inch difference!

I am getting the 45 for $1250 less - I know in the scheme of this build it's not a lot ... but that could be enough to get some body work done.

Lets say we forget about the 60 axles but I went the full way and put in the following:

1. 1 HDT engine
2. A440F Auto Gearbox
3. 80 Series axles with 80 suspension
4. Using the frame of the 45

Where do you guys foresee my problems?

By the way pics of the 45 to follow...

 

[Ample]

By the way this 45 has been dry stored for the last 6 years... but it is in a garage and has all sorts of other car body parts on and in it...

It has had a fire inside the cab... I got the story out from one of the local mechanics... So forget about the wiring harness and any other plastics including heater vents, etc

See the pic which shows the window drop down knob - all charred

Any idea what engine is in this rig? It says something like F150 or F155

 

[Ample]

Some more pics...

The chassis seemed solid enough although on the passengers side tub the rust has gone through... there isn't too much bondo on this rig (apart from the rear drop down hatch and some of the fenders)

pics = interior cab, interior roof and passengers side tub rust

 

[Ample]

Pics galore...

By the way the greyish colour on various body parts is basically the dust from a bodyshop ... bondo / filer dust etc

Pics =

Rear Drop down door

Door hatch lock

Roof line gaps

 

[Living in the Past]

In this country that would be a 72/73 F155 engine if that helps.

 

[Ample]

In this country that would be a 72/73 F155 engine if that helps.

Sure does - at least I think it must be the original 3.9 liter engine. Tks

 

[My71FJ40]

You can't go wrong with either of them because you sound determined and will make it work either way. The 45 will require more custom work to fit more than 2 inside comfortably. The 45 has a metal roof and the 40 is stock with the fiberglass roof...easy to fix fiberglass I have always wanted a 45, and we have more choices than you it seems, even in the US they are hard to find. Good luck to you, whichever way you go!

 

[bikersmurf]

Now that sounds fantastic BUT (yes there is a But)...

Would it not be simpler to shorten the 45 chassis...

I measured the FJ45 today and the body is 181 inches. From the end of the rear wheel arch to the back of the drop down hatch is 33 inches which effectively means 181 minus 33 = 148 inches. This is not much different to your suggestion above of 151 inches. I think I could live with a 3 inch difference!

I am getting the 45 for $1250 less - I know in the scheme of this build it's not a lot ... but that could be enough to get some body work done.

Lets say we forget about the 60 axles but I went the full way and put in the following:

1. 1 HDT engine
2. A440F Auto Gearbox
3. 80 Series axles with 80 suspension
4. Using the frame of the 45

Where do you guys foresee my problems?

By the way pics of the 45 to follow...

I agree, bobbing the tail end off the 45 would be easier. For $1250 in savings, the extra complexity of stretching the cab becomes insignificant.

You can decide if you want to keep a box and just have an extended cab or just have a much larger cabin.