- Thread starter
- #21
None of the marine starting batteries I see have a warrenty over a year, so to me it doesn't make sense to pay the same amount or slightly more, for a batter with 1 year vs 4 year...
Opinions on biggest best battery for CDM spec 70
- Thread starter Eric Winkworth
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That has nothing to do with quality, rather user neglect the manufacturers do not want to pay for. Marine battery warranties are usually two years, because most of them sit idle during the non-boating season ~ 8-10 months and they sulphate up - which kills them quickly. Car batteries are charged more or less regularly.
A $250 battery will not last twice as long as a good quality marine starting battery ($105), assuming both are properly cared for. Compare the specs I quoted above to the $250 battery. If you want long battery life - charge them frequently and if left for more than a week put them on a good quality smart charger (12 volt chargers are a hassle as you have to split the batteries. When my Cruiser sits for extends periods I have it on a 24 volt float charger.
A 12 volt charger charges 6 cells in series in one box so the 24 volt charger charges 12 cells in series in two boxes - really no difference. The one I have is below.
http://www.chargingchargers.com/chargers/24volt/1-10amps/jac0724.html
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- Thread starter
- #23
While I agree that charging batteries frquently keeps them going for the long run. I haven't herd anyone with marine batterys that are 5 years old still going strong...
So why buy something for the same cost if not slightly more then regular lead acid with a 1/4 of the warrenty?
I refuse to spend big money on batteries unless it's gonna last a really long time. Between my own experience and this forum, I just don't see value in the expensive ones, if I had a 12v truck I may see it differently...
Even with my solar converting load balancing, if I get a bad battery in 3 years, I know CT with throw me new batteries. It's kinda a no brainer for me, the only local place with a 4 year warrenty, and they give u 4 year road side assistance with the batteries too! I think they are actually CDN made too....
So why buy something for the same cost if not slightly more then regular lead acid with a 1/4 of the warrenty?
I refuse to spend big money on batteries unless it's gonna last a really long time. Between my own experience and this forum, I just don't see value in the expensive ones, if I had a 12v truck I may see it differently...
Even with my solar converting load balancing, if I get a bad battery in 3 years, I know CT with throw me new batteries. It's kinda a no brainer for me, the only local place with a 4 year warrenty, and they give u 4 year road side assistance with the batteries too! I think they are actually CDN made too....
- Thread starter
- #24
I do see what you mean tho on the quality having zero to do with the warrenty, it's like how all the commercial batteries are 12 month or less free replacement... They have to be better built and you can top them up with distilled water too...
I am just stuck on how long i've seen batteries last in the setup thus far, and by the 3rd winter i'm usually charging them, I do have a battery minder now vs a s*** charger and also the load balance setup... So we will see how much of a difference that makes... Also I can't say I didn't neglect my batteries in the past!
I am just stuck on how long i've seen batteries last in the setup thus far, and by the 3rd winter i'm usually charging them, I do have a battery minder now vs a s*** charger and also the load balance setup... So we will see how much of a difference that makes... Also I can't say I didn't neglect my batteries in the past!
My point is to look at the cost per year and probability of premature failure and who pays for that risk. Battery warranties are factored into the pricing - for a battery that costs twice as much - you are already buying the second battery in the original price.
If you buy a $500 pair of batteries and that prematurely die at 3 years and you get another pair that last 4 -years you have got 7 years at $500, which is $71 per year. This assumes you don't get charged some replacement fee. If you buy the $210 batteries and get 4 years that is $52 per year. Even if the $210 batteries die prematurely at 3 years that is $70 per year, the advantage being deferred cost.
It is all about risk - for example I got 13 years out of an OEM battery in my old Toyota Previa and I have heard expensive batteries (CT Eliminator) dieing in one year.
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread/t-340601.html
I hope this helps with your decision.
- Thread starter
- #26
I get what ur saying, it's a numbers game and I know the CT batteries seem to be extra special s***ty...
I actually just had a buddy of mine stop by that's going to get me some free batteries through his dad. I guess he changes out truck batteries in big banks when one fails they have to replace them all, so i'll get two group 31's out of there and make em work hopefully... He just needed my cores...
He did agree tho that a marine starting/deep cycle maybe the way to go especially because I use my truck infrequently.
Either way CT's 4 year free replacement is hard to beat, if one battery tests bad they replace both free, no questions...
I'll let you guys know how things work out with these alliance group 31's I'm getting. I hope they fit in the trays (I have my doubts)
I actually just had a buddy of mine stop by that's going to get me some free batteries through his dad. I guess he changes out truck batteries in big banks when one fails they have to replace them all, so i'll get two group 31's out of there and make em work hopefully... He just needed my cores...
He did agree tho that a marine starting/deep cycle maybe the way to go especially because I use my truck infrequently.
Either way CT's 4 year free replacement is hard to beat, if one battery tests bad they replace both free, no questions...
I'll let you guys know how things work out with these alliance group 31's I'm getting. I hope they fit in the trays (I have my doubts)
Those Group 31 are big - let us know if they fit the 70 battery tray - last time I checked they were too big for my 74
- Thread starter
- #28
You sir are right, I just went out and measured, I think if I can get em for nothing it maybe wotrth me getting out the welder and fabbing some new trays! I am a little concerned about the hieght it's gonna be very close, the trays are very close, they just under enough to not fit without some changes to the trays...
I think it would be a worth while upgrade tho!
I think it would be a worth while upgrade tho!
Batteries in 24v dual systems fail more frequently when the batteries get completely discharged, especially if it's below freezing. In many cases the 24v-> 12v convertor is the cause if it's wired to be on all the time to keep the digital clocks accurate and the radio programming. Some people still connect 12v loads to one battery, and that will also kill them sooner.
crushers
post ho
interstate
i switched to Interstate years ago and never looked back.
tried the red top, dead after 2 years
tried Crappy tire and crapped out constantly and the warranty is okay but s*** is s***
tried Sears DieEasy, again s*** is s***
i run dual 1050cc and i always am good to go even down to -35C (not plugged in)
up to you what you run, make sure all battery drains are taken care of before installing the new batteries.
i switched to Interstate years ago and never looked back.
tried the red top, dead after 2 years
tried Crappy tire and crapped out constantly and the warranty is okay but s*** is s***
tried Sears DieEasy, again s*** is s***
i run dual 1050cc and i always am good to go even down to -35C (not plugged in)
up to you what you run, make sure all battery drains are taken care of before installing the new batteries.
I strongly believe in agm battery's such as optima the only drawback of agms at least on paper is the charger, agm are very low internal resistance. Great for getting as much Amperage out to your starter as possible bad for off the shelf chargers, with such low resistance many (read most) chargers recognize this as a shorted battery when discharged and will not charge them. As much as 60% of agms thought to be dead need only a proper charge, trickle chargers will not solve this, also lead acid batteries are charged at a higher voltge than agms 14-15 volts will overcharge I've seen agms charged too long on a conventional charger get red hot. A agm specific charger is a must optima sells one now, mine is industrial forget the Brand but they're around 200$ and 12 or 24v were available, cheap chargers with agm capabilities are junk! I deal a lot with backup battery systems in industrial applications and for longevity and cold weather agm all the way.
Rant over.
For the record I use lead acid in my cruiser gonna switch to optima soon and see how that goes, new technology has always got some wrinkles.
Rant over.
For the record I use lead acid in my cruiser gonna switch to optima soon and see how that goes, new technology has always got some wrinkles.
crushers
post ho
optima is new tech??
i will take the other bench on this one, they are s*** and have been for about 10 years.
i will take the other bench on this one, they are s*** and have been for about 10 years.
Optimas are not AGM battries. They are gel cells and have very different qualities to an AGM.
I think you should do a little more reading on Optimas and how bad they have become since they moved their manufactoring to China. In other words...they suck.
I think you should do a little more reading on Optimas and how bad they have become since they moved their manufactoring to China. In other words...they suck.
For Chinese products YOU are the QC 'department'. I avoid Chinese crap whenever possible.
I will continue to use Cdn made lead acid batteries which are about 95% recycled materials.
Oh had no idea I thought they were agms, who makes automotive agm's?
My understanding that is flooded and AGM batteries are similar in their charging requirements, but gel cells have different charging requirements (lower voltage).
So in most cases one charger will work for all types except for Gel Cell. See below:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...ogId=10001&page=Battery-Charging#.UKxEZoZXm70
Optimas are AGM batteries. I have had Optimas and charged them normally and they are advertized as AGM batteries. I agree that they are over-rated and over-priced, but maybe justified in special applications, but generally not needed for Cruisers - unless you have money to burn. I ran two yellow tops dead flat and it took about 24-30 hours to get them back to full charge.
Rather than laying out $450 to replace my red tops in my current truck, I am using 2 big marine starting batteries - 2 years and strong as ever.
Gel cell batteries are different and have different charging requirements. They have silica type gel that the battery electrolyte is suspended in, this thick paste allows electrons to flow between the cells.
Gel cels are mostly used for burglar alarm and emergency lighting back-up etc in stationary applications.
So in most cases one charger will work for all types except for Gel Cell. See below:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...ogId=10001&page=Battery-Charging#.UKxEZoZXm70
Optimas are AGM batteries. I have had Optimas and charged them normally and they are advertized as AGM batteries. I agree that they are over-rated and over-priced, but maybe justified in special applications, but generally not needed for Cruisers - unless you have money to burn. I ran two yellow tops dead flat and it took about 24-30 hours to get them back to full charge.
Rather than laying out $450 to replace my red tops in my current truck, I am using 2 big marine starting batteries - 2 years and strong as ever.
Gel cell batteries are different and have different charging requirements. They have silica type gel that the battery electrolyte is suspended in, this thick paste allows electrons to flow between the cells.
Gel cels are mostly used for burglar alarm and emergency lighting back-up etc in stationary applications.
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Oh, the group 24 will fit (as will others), but why put in a smaller battery when the proper battery is a group 27?
Why? - you get less acid capacity, less plate surface area with a group 24 than a group 27. And even if the rated output is similar the group 27 will ultimately perform better.
~John
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Group 31s could be made to fit but you will have to enlarge your battery trays and sink them down a little deeper on the fender.
Group 31s have quite a lot more capacity than Group 27s (similar to the difference between 24s and 27s - there's just that much more plate surface area and electrolyte volume).
I have owned, used, and do sell AGMs - they just plain do not work well in these 24V applications. They are a better design in many regards, but they have not proven to be worth the additional expense in 24V Land Cruisers.
~John
Group 31s have quite a lot more capacity than Group 27s (similar to the difference between 24s and 27s - there's just that much more plate surface area and electrolyte volume).
I have owned, used, and do sell AGMs - they just plain do not work well in these 24V applications. They are a better design in many regards, but they have not proven to be worth the additional expense in 24V Land Cruisers.
~John
to get extra space between the batteries to mount a FPHE for the fuel system
- Thread starter
- #40
Well the group 31's are in! I got them for free and ended up doing the custom trays and battery tie downs with scrap metal laying around. Also used various bolts I had in the bolt bin. So total cost of the mod was 0$, which in the world of land cruisers has never happened to me before!
The reason for the free group 31's is a friend of mine works for a local auto parts machine shop and on commerical vehicles they check battery condition, if one battery in the bank fails, they replace them all, due to downtime costing big bucks, it's just a no brainer to replace them... It may never happen again but I got two 31's that are 1 year old and both passed a load test with no charging! From the prices i've seen if bought new they would be around 400 bucks...
I love the threaded stud terminals, I would never buy anything else after installing them! It cleaned up my connections and made them more resistant to vibrating loose... Anyone doing to mod the group 31's do fit, most of the extra space they take up is actually height which you would have anyway, they are very close to fitting the factory trays but they won't just a 1//2 inch too long! They're quite heavy and I think they will likely start my truck even if they're half dead!
Anyway here are a couple pics!
The reason for the free group 31's is a friend of mine works for a local auto parts machine shop and on commerical vehicles they check battery condition, if one battery in the bank fails, they replace them all, due to downtime costing big bucks, it's just a no brainer to replace them... It may never happen again but I got two 31's that are 1 year old and both passed a load test with no charging! From the prices i've seen if bought new they would be around 400 bucks...
I love the threaded stud terminals, I would never buy anything else after installing them! It cleaned up my connections and made them more resistant to vibrating loose... Anyone doing to mod the group 31's do fit, most of the extra space they take up is actually height which you would have anyway, they are very close to fitting the factory trays but they won't just a 1//2 inch too long! They're quite heavy and I think they will likely start my truck even if they're half dead!
Anyway here are a couple pics!
