Opinions on Bias-Ply tire; family @ highway speeds

[84runner]

We really aren't addressing what kind of wheeling you are going to do.

If you even have to contemplate using this rig to take a baby to the grocery store, bias ply tires are enormous overkill. But let's get to the heart of this: why do you think you are going to get stuck with a tire like trxus or MTR?

Nay

Thanks Nay, but I was trying to steer away from the old Q of what type of tire should I get for "blah blah" trail. And again I've heard and think most would agree that generally speaking steel belted are safer than bias.

But back to my original post, How are they more dangerous and Why? Do you know of any examples?

I'll say this; the vehicle will be my secondary vehicle that will be taken to the store etc. once a week or so literally to put just a couple miles on it for maitainance reasons, and then driven to and from the trail, (again up to 100's of highway miles, like to rubicon, sierras), not trailered.

Again the main issue is I really want to get biased plys but want to know how they are more dangerous and why, (i.e. what situations, speed, turning etc). And in those situations are there any biased plys that are better or worse than others. Finally I hope to make a dicision off of those answers as to get biased ply or not.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off sorta hostile, I just don't want this to be another "what kind of tire should I get" thread. I wanted specific examples of why bias plys are worse since I've never really experienced / heard / read.

Thanks
Jeff

 

[84runner]

You have to decide which compromise you are willing to make...gription in the rocks or emergency handling for your family.

Maybe your right there are too many variables. Any examples? Experience? First hand or other?

If Biased ply's are dangerous compared to radials? why?

Any particular brands or models better/worse than others?

 

[ginericLC]

I can tell you this. You will be very disappointed with Irok Bias on your 80 driving to the trail. They wear extremely quick. I had a set last year.

I don't think something like the TRXUS is much of a compromise either way. I think it has decent road manners and does pretty darn good off road. I considered buying these when I bought tires last time. But no local dealer and some concerns about being round and balancing shyed me away from them.

I had an opposite experience of some of those who posted above. I have never owned a Swamper Radial but my Irok Bias I had to air down a lot more to get them to flex. I was running 2-3psi whereas to get about the same flex with my radials I run 12psi. When I had them on my 40 I actually pulled the cores one day to try to get them to flex more. Never tried that on the 80.

Siping makes a huge difference in how a tire performs on the pavement, especially wet pavement. A lot of the bias tires come with zero siping. I imagine they could easily be siped but at what expense? Maybe they start to chunk then? I would imagine this might be one of the safety concerns.

Balance might be another safety concern. I imagine having a tire balanced makes them safer. In my experience radials balance easier.

It was also my understanding that the radial construction was a stronger way to build a tire.

Truthfully, if you are going to put 35-36" tires in either bias or a radial safety is compromised. Braking is very much compromised. 80s are pigs from the factory and the brakes aren't one of the things 80s are known for. Adding rotating weight just creates more of a liability. Maybe you should compare tire weights? That could be a safety issue. I know my Toyo MTs drastically reduced breaking over my previous tires of the same size. They weigh 78lbs when new for a 315.

The chunking and losing plate sized pieces of rubber could theoretically happen with either type of tire. I think most people attribute this to bias ply tires when in fact it is mostly retreaded bias ply tires. I've seen radials lose the tread. I actually have witnessed a few peeling right off going down the highway at interstate speeds. It beats the heck out of the sheetmetal.

I think there are less disadvantages on the trail for radial than disadvantages of a bias on the road.

Tires are very subjective. Nobody wants to tell you they spent $1000 or more dollars and they are unhappy. I'm really happy with my Toyo MTs but at the current availability and the current prices I would look elsewhere. If they were readily available and less than $225 each I'd definitely buy them again. I would never buy another pair of Iroks either Bias or Radial unless it was a trailered rig. And with that said, I'd probably only buy the Bias Ply because if I'm trailering it I may as well get the best off road tire at the cheapest price.

 

[Nay]

Thanks Nay, but I was trying to steer away from the old Q of what type of tire should I get for "blah blah" trail.

Ok, but isn't that what matters?

It sounds like you want to run bias ply tires independent of whether or not you really need them, and are just hoping you don't kill your young family in the process. So do it...if you drive smart and are just going to the trail and won't be dealing with snow/ice...why not?

Because let's face it...there are people who think a degree of caster is life and death and there are others who cut off parts of their control arms to gain flex and then beat the hell out of it and drive home at 90 mph. "Dangerous" has to do with how you drive far more than what you drive.

Best thing would be to drive a rig with bias ply tires...there is no substitute. If not...give it a shot and report back. You may hate them....you may love them....but at least you'll know...which seems to be the real issue.

Nay

 

[spartan]

Like I said - try it for a year or two and then you'l l know. In my experience off road bias ply tires are no less dangerous on pavement than non siped radial mud tires. Keep your distance and slow down when it rains.

 

[84runner]

Ok, but isn't that what matters?

It sounds like you want to run bias ply tires independent of whether or not you really need them, and are just hoping you don't kill your young family in the process. So do it...if you drive smart and are just going to the trail and won't be dealing with snow/ice...why not?

Because let's face it...there are people who think a degree of caster is life and death and there are others who cut off parts of their control arms to gain flex and then beat the hell out of it and drive home at 90 mph. "Dangerous" has to do with how you drive far more than what you drive.

Best thing would be to drive a rig with bias ply tires...there is no substitute. If not...give it a shot and report back. You may hate them....you may love them....but at least you'll know...which seems to be the real issue.

Nay

Excellent points again Nay. Truley I want bias plys because it seems they are better off road hands down, and wanted concrete evidence of situations where they are more dangerous to talk me out of it.

Experience would be the best teacher here, which is why I am hesitent to drive highway speeds with a new baby.

Thanks for the help
Jeff

 

[84runner]

I can tell you this. You will be very disappointed with Irok Bias on your 80 driving to the trail. They wear extremely quick. I had a set last year.

I don't think something like the TRXUS is much of a compromise either way. I think it has decent road manners and does pretty darn good off road. I considered buying these when I bought tires last time. But no local dealer and some concerns about being round and balancing shyed me away from them.

I had an opposite experience of some of those who posted above. I have never owned a Swamper Radial but my Irok Bias I had to air down a lot more to get them to flex. I was running 2-3psi whereas to get about the same flex with my radials I run 12psi. When I had them on my 40 I actually pulled the cores one day to try to get them to flex more. Never tried that on the 80.

Siping makes a huge difference in how a tire performs on the pavement, especially wet pavement. A lot of the bias tires come with zero siping. I imagine they could easily be siped but at what expense? Maybe they start to chunk then? I would imagine this might be one of the safety concerns.

Balance might be another safety concern. I imagine having a tire balanced makes them safer. In my experience radials balance easier.

It was also my understanding that the radial construction was a stronger way to build a tire.


The chunking and losing plate sized pieces of rubber could theoretically happen with either type of tire. I think most people attribute this to bias ply tires when in fact it is mostly retreaded bias ply tires. I've seen radials lose the tread. I actually have witnessed a few peeling right off going down the highway at interstate speeds. It beats the heck out of the sheetmetal.

Good points about the wear, balancing and airing down aspects! Siping would be another option for a radial, I know America's Tire will do it (=$), and don't believe it voids the warrenty since they do it. I've heard that balancing bias plys are a pain and it's needed more often, that would definatelly be a safety issue if not performed often enough.

I think there are less disadvantages on the trail for radial than disadvantages of a bias on the road.

That's the question, and I think if everyone around you is saying that biased are more dangerous that's probably reason enough to stay with Radials.

Thanks
Jeff


EDIT-

Like I said - try it for a year or two and then you'l l know. In my experience off road bias ply tires are no less dangerous on pavement than non siped radial mud tires. Keep your distance and slow down when it rains.

Well there blows my above theory out of the water. And that's what I'd have to do, try it for a year or two, drive safer, and then I'll know. I think I might just opt to never go bias just cuz I don't want to chance it.

Thanks again guys,
Jeff

 

[cruiser4life]

Well there blows my above theory out of the water. And that's what I'd have to do, try it for a year or two, drive safer, and then I'll know. I think I might just opt to never go bias just cuz I don't want to chance it.

Thanks again guys,
Jeff

I am putting bias tires on my 80 in the next month or two. I haven't had a set before but since it will be a trail only rig, I am committed to that decision. I have MTR's and other mildly aggressive AT's on other rigs and really just want the upper end of the spectrum for an off road tire. I expect horrible road manners but increased performance off road so we'll see, after a few trips, how out of line my expectations were...

 

[DirtyHarry]

I don't know that bias ply tires are "unsafe", but I think that the point Nay is getting at is that tires are not typically the limiting factor for where an FJ80 can go. So you will end up with a louder, rougher ride on the street, less tread life (depending on which tires you are considering), and you won't really be any more capable off road because size and weight are usually the limiting factors for an FJ80 on Sierra Nevada trails.

 

[Tapage]

I had an opposite experience of some of those who posted above. I have never owned a Swamper Radial but my Irok Bias I had to air down a lot more to get them to flex. I was running 2-3psi whereas to get about the same flex with my radials I run 12psi.

The same experience opinion here ..

I imagine they could easily be siped but at what expense? Maybe they start to chunk then? I would imagine this might be one of the safety concerns.

I'm pretty sure that this is the first security point if we are searching one ..

MTR perform very well on road, wet or dry good performance. But are a nasty ones ( in performance issue ) in the mud and slippery surfaces as slick rocks.

BFG Crawlers ... ?

I'm thinking are my next option for huge tires ( 39" ) there are very expensive.