Open Question on Plans for GSMTR 2022 (1 Viewer)

[oldredfj60]

I'd venture to say that the groups I was in covered more trail miles than most groups. I'm probably one of the least patient people when it comes to waiting for other trucks to get out of the way on the trail - and I honestly think that most of the trucks we had to wait for this trip were other GSMTR attendees, often in our own group, ha. I'd go so far as to say that the trails were less crowded (especially fewer SxSs) this year than in most of the years I've attended. I think I started in 2015, but it could have been the year before or after, cant recall. The heat sucked, but it is TN and that kind of heat comes in May and October, too, unpredictably even. I can certainly remember a May that was much hotter and dustier. I say good work to the committee and volunteers; I know it is not easy to pull off an event like this.

 

[andy's60]

I'd venture to say that the groups I was in covered more trail miles than most groups. I'm probably one of the least patient people when it comes to waiting for other trucks to get out of the way on the trail - and I honestly think that most of the trucks we had to wait for this trip were other GSMTR attendees, often in our own group, ha. I'd go so far as to say that the trails were less crowded (especially fewer SxSs) this year than in most of the years I've attended. I think I started in 2015, but it could have been the year before or after, cant recall. The heat sucked, but it is TN and that kind of heat comes in May and October, too, unpredictably even. I can certainly remember a May that was much hotter and dustier. I say good work to the committee and volunteers; I know it is not easy to pull off an event like this.

Thank you. You're right about May for sure. The last couple have been pretty brutal.

 

[ugamurph]

One thing I vividly remember about being chairman of the GSMTR is that every year... every year, one person would come to me and have some form of temper tantrum about something at the event. I always just relaxed, let them spout off, and then explain why what they had an issue with was or wasn't a problem. It never lasted more than a few minutes and the issue was always taken care of. Just a part of the beast. As always... You can't please all of the people all of the time.

The core group tries it's best to gather all the information they can to attempt to make the right decisions. They may not get it right every time, but since the others don't participate in the hard work to change those decisions, some items slip through the gaps. It's just the way it is. Then, at the same time, the event ends up, for the most part, a great success anyway... In spite of both sides.

Well said, Rainey!

 

[ugamurph]

I'd venture to say that the groups I was in covered more trail miles than most groups. I'm probably one of the least patient people when it comes to waiting for other trucks to get out of the way on the trail - and I honestly think that most of the trucks we had to wait for this trip were other GSMTR attendees, often in our own group, ha. I'd go so far as to say that the trails were less crowded (especially fewer SxSs) this year than in most of the years I've attended. I think I started in 2015, but it could have been the year before or after, cant recall. The heat sucked, but it is TN and that kind of heat comes in May and October, too, unpredictably even. I can certainly remember a May that was much hotter and dustier. I say good work to the committee and volunteers; I know it is not easy to pull off an event like this.

Like the old saying goes… If you don’t like the weather in Tennessee, just wait an hour or two.

 

[LDowney]

In 2019, we sent out a survey to all participants about the possibility of a date change along with some other questions. Of the ones who replied, the general consensus was that June worked better for most due to school. Most I corresponded with said they'd love to be able to bring their wives and kids but the May dates interfered with either finals or graduation. The last days of school have changed over the last few years and now many don't get out until late May or early June. School was also causing an issue with the handful of volunteers that we have. Some were having to drive back home or meet their wives halfway to get their children so the decision was made to move the event. When GSMTR was a 3 day event, school wasn't an issue but now that it's a week long event, school is an issue in May. Prior to the date change, we were two weeks before Ramble and now we're two weeks after. The Relic run moved to from late April to June after our decision was made. Not only did they move to June but they moved it to the same weekend that the Ramble has been on historically. This is a family event and this year we had more families with kids than we've ever had. There are only a handful of weeks to hold an event that work due to weather, school and camping availability and the 3rd week in June is the best one we had available.

Larry, what about this year proved that it was a bad change?
You mentioned integration with other events. The move put GSMTR 2 weeks after Ramble instead of two weeks before. If anything, that would help Ramble to get a leg up on us for attendance. Like Andy said, Relic was moved from April to June. Are you griping at the North State guys for that move?

“The move put GSMTR 2 weeks after Ramble instead of two weeks before.”
Non-concur with the use this as the measure of merit. This uses a Start-to-Start schedule comparison which yields a misleading result of two weeks. The merit of value here is a Finish-to-Start schedule comparison that demonstrates that there is only one week between the Razorback Ramble and GSMTR.

With my work and family commitments, one week versus two weeks between events is profound. Clearly others would be in similar situations.

Similarly, GSMTR ended on the 19th and Rubithon started on the 23rd. That yields 3 days between these events that are ~2000 miles apart. The logistics required appear to make it non-viable to attend GSMTR and Rubithon. Our normal separation between these events is nominally 30 days, which is clearly viable to attend both. That is absolutely on my bucket list. I don’t expect that I am alone here.

Also, I am interested seeing your research and data analysis that indicates that the date change is in the best interest of the event.

What were the control groups?​

What were the KPPs (key performance parameters) in the analysis?​

What data set was used? (data from attendees going back how many years, data from attendees that did not attend especially this year)​

What is your data convergence?​

Please share it all.

Finally, I must return to the premise that June is required for the kids to attend. My experience is this in not a requirement, it is a choice. Melissa attended GSMTR all through school; K-12 and college. She only missed a couple years due to school commitments, exclusively a couple of finals in middle and high school. Other years, school was winding down in the final days so she missed out on nothing. Once in grade school, she missed an ice cream social which disappointed her, so I made sure she was treated to her own ice cream social at Tellico. And when she had finals early in the week and was free the later part of the week, either I drove hours to get her or the family drove her to the event. We made the choice and commitment for her to attend and enjoy the event. This choice and commitment is free to others to make ... you just have to want your children to have the opportunity to enjoy the event with you and this Cruiser community.

Thanks for listening and sharing.

 

[ugamurph]

If you don’t think I’ve been committed to have my kids be a part of GSMTR, you haven’t been paying attention over the last 9 years.
We can conclude that we are in agreement that our decisions won’t please everyone.

 

[Rainman]

Sound a little like "pickin' fly s*** outta horse s***."

 

[FJCRAWLER]

I don't have a dog in this fight any more. However, I do keep up with most everything going on. One day, Lord willing, I will be gracing y'all with my presents back on the trail. Now, I know how exciting that makes you. However, when I was out and about, let me see if I can get this right, I'm almost positive it was left up to me, wait for it,......It was left up to me and me alone, in other words, my decision on which event I wanted to attend. I don't remember being made to attend any event, function or meeting. I don't recall trying to make anyone change any event or anything just so in would accommodate me. If the event did not fit in my schedule, I just simple stayed home and waited for the one that did. I do realize I have not been out in the wheelin' world or attended GSMTR for a couple years. However, I am pretty sure the folks that put this event together would love to see everyone attend but they do understand if you can not attend, it will be ok. So, to close this out, be thankful that you still have the freedom of choice in our country. Be thankful that you are able to attend and enjoy these offroad events. Be thankful that your healthy enough to go and play with your toys. Be thankful the Lord still allows you to do the things that you choose to do. Because Brothers, one day, one day your world can change in an instant. Just ask me how I know.
Be thankful that the Lord still allows you to make a choice......So just be thankful.......We always forget to be Thankful.

Please forgive me if I stepped on any toes.

 

[Rainman]

Amen.

 

[Hugh Heifer]

Also, I am interested seeing your research and data analysis that indicates that the date change is in the best interest of the event.

What were the control groups?​

What were the KPPs (key performance parameters) in the analysis?​

What data set was used? (data from attendees going back how many years, data from attendees that did not attend especially this year)​

What is your data convergence?​

Please share it all.

Really Larry? You know as well as I do there was open discussion, an invite to take a poll, some notes on a cocktail napkin and a decision made based on that. This is not the Rand Corporation. Your post is self serving IMO.

 

[LDowney]

Really Larry? You know as well as I do there was open discussion, an invite to take a poll, some notes on a cocktail napkin and a decision made based on that. This is not the Rand Corporation. Your post is self serving IMO.

Chris,
Where was there open discussion? Other than here? None that I am aware of. Thank you for the insight into operations and decision making in a cocktail mode.

I raised basic questions and identified information that participants were raising during the event as an aid in bringing forth missed feedback and communication to help ensure that a possible silent majority had not been overlooked.
Sharing this and seeking answers is self serving... Ok you can elect to dismiss accordingly. But attacking and dismissing basic questions without the remotest consideration, that is not self-serving behavior on your part or other leaders. Got it. Thank you for such informative clarification on the mind and actions of this leadership team.

However, based on these responses it is abundantly clear that leadership appears to be utterly closed minded to input that does not match their own opinion and are absolute bullies to any that share or bring forth alternative perspectives. Why would attendees to the event subject themselves to this to share information/questions/feedback with the honest intent of improving the event?

 

[Hugh Heifer]

Bullies? Really? Nice.
Now that this has resorted to name calling it is probably valueless.

Sorry to have insulted you but this is volunteer based and planners do the best they can based on information at large. Did you recieve and fill out the survey in 2019? Nobody is going to spend days researching this and assembling data points broken down by any manner of category (Age? Gender? Previously attended? Type of truck? Previous events attended? Other events? - It could go for days) as it is a hugely time consuming venture already.
I heard from only three people they were unsatisfied with the schedule. Two did not attend. One person at the event questioned me about the June dates and agreed it was the right move after our discussion.

Attendance was high and we sold more raffle tickets than ever before. Number of trucks was high average and number of meals distributed was higher than usual.
I will say I heard more discussion about relocating the event for the sake of variety than anything.

One last thing, I camped and have camped at every event. This year it was perfectly comfortable to do so.

On what would you base success of this event, Larry?

Lastly, it is my opinion this forum was not an appropriate place to begin this discussion.

 

[andy's60]

Chris,
Where was there open discussion? Other than here? None that I am aware of. Thank you for the insight into operations and decision making in a cocktail mode.

I raised basic questions and identified information that participants were raising during the event as an aid in bringing forth missed feedback and communication to help ensure that a possible silent majority had not been overlooked.
Sharing this and seeking answers is self serving... Ok you can elect to dismiss accordingly. But attacking and dismissing basic questions without the remotest consideration, that is not self-serving behavior on your part or other leaders. Got it. Thank you for such informative clarification on the mind and actions of this leadership team.

However, based on these responses it is abundantly clear that leadership appears to be utterly closed minded to input that does not match their own opinion and are absolute bullies to any that share or bring forth alternative perspectives. Why would attendees to the event subject themselves to this to share information/questions/feedback with the honest intent of improving the event?

Yep we're all a bunch of big ole mean bullies. That's why we volunteer our time to put together the event because it suits our needs not anyone else's. That's why we spend our vacation time to work the event. That's why we spend countless amounts of personal time preparing for the event. Most of your posts have been viewed as nothing but condescending by the staff and also viewed as a public attack because the decision to change the date doesn't fit YOUR needs. You said you were asked by a few folks about the date change but you never said they complained about it. I was there 9 days and never heard one complaint. Neither did any of the other staff. Funny that they'd come to you with a question about the dates instead of one of the staff. You were "shocked" to hear about the dates for next year? What did you expect? Did you really think it would be a one and done thing? GSMTR was supposed to be in June last year. The only reason it wasn't was because of Covid. We announced in 2019 that GSMTR would be in June going forward. That comment you made calling us bullies has to be one of the most insulting and dumbest things I've ever heard and honestly, I lost any respect I had for you at that point. The decision that was made with a good amount of research. There are no bar graphs, spreadsheets or pie charts to share. We created an online poll that attendees from 15, 16 & 17 were emailed in 18 and asked to participate in. We also sent emails to some attendees we noticed hadn't been in a while. SCHOOL was the number one answer as to why a lot people had stopped coming. We looked at the AR event near the time we chose and found very very few that attend both. We also compared sponsors and found no conflicts. We also studied weather patterns for the previous few years prior and found very little difference in the May and June dates. I appreciate your concern. I appreciate your help at the event in the past. I don't appreciate your attempt at a public crucifixion one damn bit!

 

[andy's60]

Oh and for the record just in case I didn't mention it before, we had more families with children this year than we've ever had.

 

[LDowney]

Bullies? Really? Nice.
Now that this has resorted to name calling it is probably valueless.

Sorry to have insulted you but this is volunteer based and planners do the best they can based on information at large. Did you recieve and fill out the survey in 2019? Nobody is going to spend days researching this and assembling data points broken down by any manner of category (Age? Gender? Previously attended? Type of truck? Previous events attended? Other events? - It could go for days) as it is a hugely time consuming venture already.
I heard from only three people they were unsatisfied with the schedule. Two did not attend. One person at the event questioned me about the June dates and agreed it was the right move after our discussion.

Attendance was high and we sold more raffle tickets than ever before. Number of trucks was high average and number of meals distributed was higher than usual.
I will say I heard more discussion about relocating the event for the sake of variety than anything.

One last thing, I camped and have camped at every event. This year it was perfectly comfortable to do so.

On what would you base success of this event, Larry?

Lastly, it is my opinion this forum was not an appropriate place to begin this discussion.

Yep we're all a bunch of big ole mean bullies. That's why we volunteer our time to put together the event because it suits our needs not anyone else's. That's why we spend our vacation time to work the event. That's why we spend countless amounts of personal time preparing for the event. Most of your posts have been viewed as nothing but condescending by the staff and also viewed as a public attack because the decision to change the date doesn't fit YOUR needs. You said you were asked by a few folks about the date change but you never said they complained about it. I was there 9 days and never heard one complaint. Neither did any of the other staff. Funny that they'd come to you with a question about the dates instead of one of the staff. You were "shocked" to hear about the dates for next year? What did you expect? Did you really think it would be a one and done thing? GSMTR was supposed to be in June last year. The only reason it wasn't was because of Covid. We announced in 2019 that GSMTR would be in June going forward. That comment you made calling us bullies has to be one of the most insulting and dumbest things I've ever heard and honestly, I lost any respect I had for you at that point. The decision that was made with a good amount of research. There are no bar graphs, spreadsheets or pie charts to share. We created an online poll that attendees from 15, 16 & 17 were emailed in 18 and asked to participate in. We also sent emails to some attendees we noticed hadn't been in a while. SCHOOL was the number one answer as to why a lot people had stopped coming. We looked at the AR event near the time we chose and found very very few that attend both. We also compared sponsors and found no conflicts. We also studied weather patterns for the previous few years prior and found very little difference in the May and June dates. I appreciate your concern. I appreciate your help at the event in the past. I don't appreciate your attempt at a public crucifixion one damn bit!

Regrettably, your responses are demonstrating these attributes of your behaviors and mindset. If you had any interest in maintaining an appearance of inclusion to feedback or open discussion, you could have responded something like

We appreciate that you have brought this to the attention of the STLCA BoD and the event committee. Please note that as volunteers, we have limited resources to survey and assess incorporation of such feedback into future event plans. Pending no changes to this situation, the STLCA BoD and event committee will need to continue to rely on personal judgement in all actions and plans.

However, you opt'd for an alternate path. Equally direct in conveying that only the opinions of the inner circle matter in planning and policy decisions, but it would have allowed you to maintain the appearance of openness to additional information/feedback/perspective.

Thank you for taking the approach that you did. It eliminated all pretense or doubt.

 

[ugamurph]

“However, you opt'd for an alternate path. Equally direct in conveying that only the opinions of the inner circle matter in planning and policy decisions, but it would have allowed you to maintain the appearance of openness to additional information/feedback/perspective.”

Larry, we’ve said multiple times that we relied on the results of a survey that was sent to recent and past GSMTR participants to make a decision about changing the date to June. The general consensus from the survey was that a later date would be better for the event. We used that information to make our decision. If we only valued the opinion of the volunteers, we wouldn’t have bothered to conduct the survey.

I hate that you don’t feel like you’re being heard. I equally wish that others that feel the same way would voice their opinions in a civil manner. But, the overwhelming success of this year makes it hard for us to want to move the event back to May. In fact, it would be premature to make a decision based on one year’s success or failure either way.

 

[LDowney]

...

Larry, we’ve said multiple times that we relied on the results of a survey that was sent to recent and past GSMTR participants to make a decision about changing the date to June. The general consensus from the survey was that a later date would be better for the event. We used that information to make our decision. If we only valued the opinion of the volunteers, we wouldn’t have bothered to conduct the survey.

...

I never received such a survey. When an earlier allusion to a survey was made, I requested the data be shared out to all. This was not only ignored, it was demeaned because I purposely kept my request very data/technically focused. My objective in a data/technically worded request was to avoid fueling the personal attack replies being hurdled. Clearly, this failed because they only intensified.

 

[oldredfj60]

Larry, email and text have the darnedest way of lending themselves to misinterpretation. Words without tone or context can too easily bend toward the negative when they aren’t intended that way. I remember a few years ago an oil galley blew in your 40 and the day was spent recovering it and Rob’s thanks to a twisted driveshaft (trail 44 maybe?). In other words, we’re all friends here.

I can see how you were just asking a question. I can also see how those that have worked hard on the past few events could feel criticized. I guess my point is this: we’re all guys trying to have fun. We share a love for cruisers and trails. I personally have watched you volunteer to help out during the day at the past few events and I know you mean well. I’ve seen the others plan the events and I know they mean well too. Hopefully we can get back to the things we love and try to let the frustrations go – we can’t know who will make it to GSMTR going forward, but I know if I make it again I’d love to see you, Andy, Ridge, Jamie, Eric, Hunter, Roger, Todd, Chris and everyone else enjoying a beer and some crap talk around a fire after a good day (except you re: the beer, Jamie, ha) and I hate to see it degrade in this way.

- Jens

I never received such a survey. When an earlier allusion to a survey was made, I requested the data be shared out to all. This was not only ignored, it was demeaned because I purposely kept my request very data/technically focused. My objective in a data/technically worded request was to avoid fueling the personal attack replies being hurdled. Clearly, this failed because they only intensified.

 

[Hugh Heifer]

But it was just a survey, not a scientific study. The data you alluded to would not exhist in such a situation. Ie basic user satisfaction surveys do not contain control groups.
Excuse me for not realizing that you would have known the difference.
But then you misquoted me (I never typed "cocktail mode" - it clearly reads "cocktail napkin" and you made the leap ) and then you asailed the entire group with childish name calling. For that there is no excuse, Larry and I re-read everything that was typed and see nobody bullying you, just disagreeing and voicing their opinions.

While I agree that a post event survey would be a useful tool, its time to be issued would be immediately after the event.
If you would consider putting together a viable survey for next year that could ve then dispersed via Survey Monkey or similar platform of your chouce and presenting it to the officers in an appropriate forum and offering to then complete the evaluation of the return, you may be met with a more positive reaction.

As always, statements rarely convey the way they are meant on social media and I will reiterate that this was not the right forum to initiate this discussion.

Edit: I see this did not send on the crappy hotel wifi before Jens chimed in about tone in messages. How true.

 

[bluehawk]

So I'm guessing that GSMTR 2022 will be the same week as it was this year? I'm starting to plan now for next years event. Couldn't make it this year due to work schedule. This is why I am planning well in advance. Hopefully will be showing up with the newly built 40. See you guys next year, will definitely have a cold adult beverage with you all.