Open Question on Plans for GSMTR 2022 (1 Viewer)

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Kennesaw, GA
FYI
Last week, I was approached by multiple drivers asking me why the event was moved to June rather than being held during our traditional time during May. My advice back was to share this with the STLCA and event leadership. Rolling forward to raffle, I was completely shocked when it was announced that GSMTR 2022 was again being scheduled for June.

Consequently, I am concerned that plans are being made without adequate understanding of what is wanted and needed by the majority of the participants. Is a broader discussion and survey needed?

My assessment is that June is absolutely a bad choice. Melissa attended almost every GSMTR from 2 1/2 years old to now. The only school issue we ever had was her finals in high school were scheduled on Monday/Tuesday. Other than those instances, she would miss school without consequence or issue if needed. There was never a need for the event to be moved due to school.
Further, moving the GSMTR to June puts it in conflict with other events in June. This is bad for GSMTR, other events and the TLCA because it forces events to compete with one another for attendance. For example; if GSMTR2021 were in May, it would not have been on top of Relic Run and Razorback Ramble. Too many events / too close together forces people to down select what they will consider attending. This is counter productive for all involved.

If possible, I recommend researching and reviewing the schedule plans for GSMTR 2022. Then make an informed decision.

Thanks (from the peanut gallery)
 
In 2019, we sent out a survey to all participants about the possibility of a date change along with some other questions. Of the ones who replied, the general consensus was that June worked better for most due to school. Most I corresponded with said they'd love to be able to bring their wives and kids but the May dates interfered with either finals or graduation. The last days of school have changed over the last few years and now many don't get out until late May or early June. School was also causing an issue with the handful of volunteers that we have. Some were having to drive back home or meet their wives halfway to get their children so the decision was made to move the event. When GSMTR was a 3 day event, school wasn't an issue but now that it's a week long event, school is an issue in May. Prior to the date change, we were two weeks before Ramble and now we're two weeks after. The Relic run moved to from late April to June after our decision was made. Not only did they move to June but they moved it to the same weekend that the Ramble has been on historically. This is a family event and this year we had more families with kids than we've ever had. There are only a handful of weeks to hold an event that work due to weather, school and camping availability and the 3rd week in June is the best one we had available.
 
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In 2019, we sent out a survey to all participants about the possibility of a date change along with some other questions. Of the ones who replied, the general consensus was that June worked better for most due to school. Most I corresponded with said they'd love to be able to bring their wives and kids but the May dates interfered with either finals or graduation. The last days of school have changed over the last few years and now many don't get out until late May or early June. School was also causing an issue with the handful of volunteers that we have. Some were having to drive back home or meet their wives halfway to get their children so the decision was made to move the event. When GSMTR was a 3 day event, school wasn't an issue but now that it's a week long event, school is an issue in May. Prior to the date change, we were two weeks before Ramble and now we're two weeks after. The Relic run moved to from late April to June after our decision was made. Not only did they move to June but they moved it to the same weekend that the Ramble has been on historically. This is a family event and this year we had more families with kids than we've ever had. There are only a handful of weeks to hold an event that work due to weather, school and camping availability and the 3rd week in June is the best one we had available.

Andy,
You are citing a poll from 2019 on the possible date change. We have held one now so we have direct experiences now. My suggestion is a new poll and understanding is merited. This year proved to me that it was a bad change, but one that I will continue to tolerate. Others may not be as supportive, while others may love the change. We need to understand all perspectives, plus integration with other TLCA events. With such data, an informed plan can be defined is my the core of point that I am bringing forward.

PS In 24 years ('97 to '21), I don't recall GSMTR ever being less than a week long event.

Thanks
 
From the very 1st GSMTR, the event was from Wednesday to Sunday (5 days). The first 2 years was a fishing exposition trying to find the best time to have it. Smoky Treck was during the 1st year ride. Mistake but the event only had 29 trucks so lesson learned without an issue. The third year ended the moves with it being one week before Memorial weekend. My last year of involvement was I think in 2003. I don't know when it moved after that. I guess I could go through the Toyota Tarils and look up the dates.... But I don't care that much.

I hope this clears up some of the history.
 
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I stand corrected on the 3 day thing. I had forgotten about it starting on Wed and going through Sun.
 
Larry, what about this year proved that it was a bad change?
You mentioned integration with other events. The move put GSMTR 2 weeks after Ramble instead of two weeks before. If anything, that would help Ramble to get a leg up on us for attendance. Like Andy said, Relic was moved from April to June. Are you griping at the North State guys for that move?
 
We can't make everyone happy no matter what we do. If we see that there's a negative impact on the attendance numbers over the next few years then we'll revisit the date change but the 183 trucks this year don't really make me think there's a problem.
 
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So. If I saw and read correctly, there were 183 trucks this year. Our largest event was about 2004 or 5ish at over 250. That ended up being way too many really. Great publicity but just too many people for camp and the trails. I haven't been to Windrock and here it's huge. So it may not matter there. Sounds like 183 is a good turnout. But then, what's the turnout been over the last 5 to 10 years? Andy?
 
post Tellico numbers have usually been between 100-150 trucks with a few exceptions in the last 3 or 4 years where its gotten closer to 200. the real tell this year was the number of people verses the number of trucks. The overwhelming response from the survey was many people wanted it a little later in the year so they could bring their family. It did appear to be more wives and kids this year. As to Windrock, the park and group camp area could handle 4 or 5 times our numbers but i don't believe our small volunteer staff could. :)
 
2019 was in the low 200's. We've actually averaged around 165 the last 3 or 4 years with the exception of last year. You're right about 250 being too many. Any more than 200 and it's very difficult to manage.
 
We’re doing things right. Our numbers have been up over the last several years. More people are able to come with their families. We’ve had a lot of new attendees that encourage their friends to come. But, most importantly, the majority express how much they have enjoyed GSMTR and the friendships they have developed from it. All of this because of the hard work that Andy Scott and the rest of the volunteers put in throughout the year and during that week. Keep up the good work, STLCA!
 
I'll just guess one number is about the same. There were about 5 of us that did basically all the work. Every year.
 
Funny thing, I was there all week long. Never herd one person complain about it being in June. We had more families show up , lots of new faces, not to mention most of the same people who have came for years. As far as I’m concerned it was a success! Can’t please everyone, if it doesn’t sit well with you , find another event to go to!
 
Funny thing, I was there all week long. Never herd one person complain about it being in June. We had more families show up , lots of new faces, not to mention most of the same people who have came for years. As far as I’m concerned it was a success! Can’t please everyone, if it doesn’t sit well with you , find another event to go to!
Sorry , the last sentence was harsh . Didn’t mean to be rude!
 
Larry, what about this year proved that it was a bad change?
You mentioned integration with other events. The move put GSMTR 2 weeks after Ramble instead of two weeks before. If anything, that would help Ramble to get a leg up on us for attendance. Like Andy said, Relic was moved from April to June. Are you griping at the North State guys for that move?
Jamie / Andy / leadership balance,
I want to start by clarifying that I am not attempting to detract from the hard work and commitment in what has gone into this event year after year by a dedicated team. Rather, I am raising considerations that appear to be glossed over which may weaken the event or even destroy it over time.
No issue with Razorback Ramble which held to its tradition scheduling to complement the other TLCA events. Further no issue with North State, the Relic Run schedule was driven by COVID and was not an elective.

The most glaring point is creating schedule conflict with other TLCA events. These events have complemented one another in their schedules for decades and remained healthy. The following is the event schedule for GSMTR / Razorback Ramble / Rubithon / Black Hill Cruiser Classic. They were developed to complement one another for widest attendance opportunity by allowing space between one another.
Moving GSMTR to June eliminates this space. Effectively this schedule change eliminates choice and opportunity. Currently, my work schedule is too intense for me to exercise this option but I do have plans to attend these events when my schedule will allow it. Others do have choice and opportunity now.
Eliminating choice is something I have issues with. From this perspective, could this have contributed to no attendance from the LA, MS or AR cruser community? I recall that there has been strong attendance from these states through the years, so did stepping on Razorback Ramble eliminate choice for them.
<Note that GSMTR was held in '09, '10 and '11 when UpState hosted the event during those years. These were years of decline for GSMTR and there were other factors in play too, so these years were not typical and possibly should be removed from consideration>

YearGSMTRRazorback RambleRubithonBlack Hills Cruiser Classic
199714-18May-18-23June-
199813-17May-17-21June23-26July
199919-23May-23-27June21-25July
200017-21May-21-25June26-30July
200116-20May-20-24June25-29July
200215-19May-19-23June24-28July
200314-18May-18-22June23-27July
200419-22May4-6June16-20June28July-1Aug
200518-21May-15-19June27-31July
200615-20May2-4June21-25June26-29July
200714-19May1-3June20-24June18-21July
200812-17May5-8June18-22June17-19July
200915-21June5-7June16-21June15-18July
20107-13June-15-20June14-17July
201116-22May3-5June15-19June13-16July
201214-19May1-3June-18-21July
201313-18May7-9June18-23June17-20July
201412-17May6-8June17-22June23-25July
20154-9May5-7June23-28June22-25July
201616-21May3-5June21-26June20-23July
201715-20May2-4June20-25June19-22July
201814-19May1-3June19-24June18-22July
201913-18May30May-2June10-13July17-21July
202026-31Oct-19-23Aug15-19July
202114-19June3-6June23-27June14-17July

The temps on the 13th and 14th demonstrated an additional reality of pushing into June ... The potential for very high temps that are unpleasant on the trail and for camping.

An additional consideration, the trails were noticeably more crowded all week than what they have been at WindRock in the past. This implied that the convenience of school being out would directly contribute to this.

Returning to what prompted me to bring this up, I was approached by many complaining about the event being moved to June. I don't know if they are in the minority or if they are core customers that we are ignoring. My suggestion is get the data to understand the demographics and priorities of who attends GSMTR so we can make healthy scheduling decisions so the GSMTR remains strong and well attended.
 
I’m still not seeing how we’re “stepping on Razorback Ramble”. 2 weeks prior to 2 weeks after. Where’s the conflict, Larry?

GSMTR has had better than average attendance in the last few years (not including 2020 which was purposefully capped at 100 registrations). I feel like that is a testament to the strength of GSMTR as of late.

Maybe those that were complaining should voice their concerns to the committee rather than grumble amongst themselves. We heard nothing but good things from those who talked with us about the week. Not one complaint about how “crowded” the trails were.

You seem to think we just made the change without giving it any thought. That is far from the truth. We did research. We considered Razorback Ramble and the effect the change might have on it. That is why we worked to keep the same space of time between our event and theirs. We also realized that not everyone would be pleased with our decision.

You had all week long to discuss this issue with any or all of the committee in person, but you chose to wait until after the event on a public forum to bring it up.
 
I was the guy in the Jeep this year. We chose your event because you are all awesome people, and because it allowed us to attend it as a family since it started the first week of Summer Vacation. If it was a few weeks before, we wouldn't have been able to make it.
We’re glad you and your family were able to attend this year. We look forward to seeing you back next June.
 
Maybe those that were complaining should voice their concerns to the committee rather than grumble amongst themselves. We heard nothing but good things from those who talked with us about the week. Not one complaint about how “crowded” the trails were.
One thing I vividly remember about being chairman of the GSMTR is that every year... every year, one person would come to me and have some form of temper tantrum about something at the event. I always just relaxed, let them spout off, and then explain why what they had an issue with was or wasn't a problem. It never lasted more than a few minutes and the issue was always taken care of. Just a part of the beast. As always... You can't please all of the people all of the time.

The core group tries it's best to gather all the information they can to attempt to make the right decisions. They may not get it right every time, but since the others don't participate in the hard work to change those decisions, some items slip through the gaps. It's just the way it is. Then, at the same time, the event ends up, for the most part, a great success anyway... In spite of both sides.
 

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