Old stage road closed? Why

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Let me rephrase that: I do give a boot about trout, and I wouldn't want to see them extinct, but I don't buy the whole "purest strain" thing. I call BS. Even if there is some perfectly pure trout up there, most people fishing wouldn't know the difference between them and the everyday trout you throw in a frying pan. :rolleyes:

(I don't like the new "rolleyes" emoticon, he's not nearly sarcastic looking enough)
 
black95 said:
:rolleyes:

(I don't like the new "rolleyes" emoticon, he's not nearly sarcastic looking enough)
Click to expand...

^:lol:

Remember, there are two issues relating to closure of two different areas.
 
Just got this in our neighborhood newsletter, FWIW.


Bear Creek Watershed Update


Trail Condition Assessment

The Rocky Mountain Field Institute will be visiting the Bear Creek watershed in early June to reassess portions of the trail system that were identified as “hot spots, red zones, and orange zones” during the 2013 Rapid Trail Condition Assessment. This assessment will include portions of trails 667, 666, 720, 668 and 665. This effort will include an evaluation of the maintenance needed to repair sections of the trail system damaged during the September 2013 rain events. The Forest Service will utilize the results of this assessment to determine the feasibility of reopening the trail system closed by Forest Order 14-2.


RMFI will also assess maintenance needs for the sediment detention structures located within the watershed.


Forest Service personnel will be reassessing the condition of Trails 668, 701, and 720 for the possibility of reopening these trails for multiple uses. This assessment will be conducted when the trails are snow free and safe for motorized travel.


Trail Restoration

The Forest Service will be conducting site visits with a trails team from the San Dimas Technology and Development Center to identify trail restoration methods and techniques. The objective of this effort is to utilize the scientific knowledge of this team to identify new or substantially improved systems, processes, and procedures for the effective rehabilitation of trails contributing sediment to Bear Creek.


High Drive Restoration and Sediment Abatement

Colorado Springs Parks and Recreation is currently working with the Federal Emergency Management Agency to repair damage to the road sustained during the September 2013 flooding. CH2M Hill is beginning the process of revaluating the road, drainage system, and sediment sources and transport as a component of this undertaking.


Palmer Loop

Discussion about reopening Palmer Loop from High Drive is ongoing and a decision is expected next week.


NEPA

We thank you for getting the word out about the comment period that closed in March. We received over 700 letters and emails with signatures from over 900 people.


Based on the comments we are exploring the possibility of changes to the proposed action.

ØWe are looking for a sustainable trail into Jones Park from the south. If a trail alignment is found that provides access to some of the historic sites while not impacting the Greenback cutthroat trout, it will be included in the proposed action.

ØWe are looking at a new 668-701 connection that will be closer to the current 720 alignment. The new alignment will travel through some of the nicest areas along 720, but will stay out of the Bear Creek watershed. We are working on a contract with Troy Scott Parker of Natureshape to field verify the alignment.

ØWe are adjusting the “travel restricted to trail” boundary to allow access to the summits of Specimen and Sentinel rocks, Runs-down-fast Mountain, Tuckaway Mountain, Mays Peak and Mount Buckhorn.

We still expect to have a decision by late summer/early fall. The abundance of comments and extra information we are gathering in response to comments has put a crunch on our timeline, but the team remains committed to meeting the deadline.


*****************************************

Janelle Valladares

Bear Creek Watershed Restoration Project Team Lead


Pike and San Isabel National Forest

Cimarron and Comanche National Grasslands

jvalladares@fs.fed.us


2840 Kachina Drive Pueblo CO 81008
 
Am I wrong to feel hopeful or is it just patronizing? Are there aspects that we can help with regarding repair and maintenance? I am also curious about the new scientific methods? Fact or fiction?....
 
Yup believe the media they will never steer you in the wrong direction. I get to here what they put on the news and then I here the real stories of shootings in the springs and they don't match up. They only tell us half of the shootings that really happen. So do you think they care if they lie to us about some road. I lived on a farm on gravel roads the first 20 years of my life and it takes about a day to dig in 6 culverts in ditches full of water. We are talking about a dry road here. These people are idiots, lazy or understaffed,maybe all three who knows. Either way that video showed one bad spot, ridiculous.

Thanks for the update. We won't see that trail open this year if we don't start to cause a ruckus. That's my prediction.
But I have been known to be wrong just ask the wife.
 
karas said:
Thanks for the update. We won't see that trail open this year if we don't start to cause a ruckus. That's my prediction.
But I have been known to be wrong just ask the wife.
Click to expand...

We'll see, I have a bit less pessimistic view ;)

Off topic, but to give you all an idea of what else the folks at Center for Biological Diversity are up to.

Court affirms EPA decision not to issue secondary standards for NOx and SO2

PUBLIC POWER DAILY – May 28, 2014 - A federal appeals court yesterday upheld the Environmental Protection Agency’s 2012 decision to hold off on setting secondary National Ambient Air Quality Standards for nitrogen oxides (NOx) and sulfur dioxide (SO2) and instead to continue collecting data. In Center for Biological Divsersity v. EPA, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit rejected environmental groups’ argument that the Clean Air Act required the agency to issue new secondary standards after it found that the existing standards are inadequate.

"EPA has by far the better of the argument," the three-judge panel said. The judges agreed with EPA that, if the agency could not make a "reasoned judgment" that a new standard would comply with the act’s requirement that a standard provide a "requisite" amount of protection—neither too much nor too little—then it cannot be "appropriate" for EPA to issue the new standard.

Issuing a standard based on insufficient information "would have been arbitrary and capricious," the court said. "It is ridiculous to suppose that the Clean Air Act required EPA to promulgate a secondary standard that would immediately violate the Act. Yet that is where [the environmental groups’] arguments lead."

The judges held that "the Clean Air Act’s preference for preventive—and thus potentially speculative—regulation is not absolute." While the D.C. Circuit in past cases has "rejected certainty as an appropriate goal, [that] does not mean that regulation is required (or permitted) no matter how much uncertainty the agency faces." The May 27 decision is posted on the court’s website.
 
And Old Stage is open again. Some of the CoTTORA guys headed up the last couple weekends. Open all the way through to Cripple Creek!
 
MrMoose said:
And Old Stage is open again. Some of the CoTTORA guys headed up the last couple weekends. Open all the way through to Cripple Creek!
Click to expand...

Awesome , great news. Was wanting to do Bald Mountain again while the weathers nice (picnic time!) but didn't really want to drive all the way around.
 
Yeah that's what they want (they being aliens) so we have no where to practice shooting and won't be able to defend ourselves when they decide to take complete control. Where were you born Luke?:hmm:
 
Same reason trails are being shut down, it is the divide and conquer mentality. Oh, that doesn't apply to me so it is not too bad. Before you know it, all is lost. Look at the England gun laws and how all that came to pass...

Same thing about trails... some idiots do stupid things and it hurts all responsible users...
 
I think it goes something like this...

When I'm out wheeling or taking the family out for a picnic or up there to just relax, I don't particularly like feeling like I'm in the middle of a huge firing range. But that's me (and I've had lots of fun in my life firing guns, so it's not an anti-gun thing entirely).

But when I'm wheeling, I also don't like it when dirt bike guys buzz around corners at full speed and have almost become a new hood ornament.

I'm sure the dirt bike guys don't like some of the stuff we do.

When I'm out fishing, I don't want to listen to the roar of dirt bikes, but if any of you have an extra dirt bike, I'd love to go out sometime. I grew up riding dirt bikes and LOVE them.

I'd also like to get out on my mountain bike more. Where I would ride in the midwest, the mountain bikers would upset the hikers because they felt that the bikers put them at risk of collision (and rightly so since there were many instances of bikers not dismounting and ending up running in to hikers... at least in that area....dense vegetation and narrow trails of the midwest....).

When I'm hiking.........

When I'm fishing......


I guess my point would be that we all should be able to enjoy OUR outdoors the way WE see fit. Most of the time, I think it works out well. We wave to ATV, dirt bike guys. I try to stop and have nice conversations with hikers/fisherman in the area (or cross-country skiers :D) and have them see not all 4wheelers are crazed habitat destroyers. I could go on and on....


OK...my point.......... if you grabbed anyone who's never been to CO and took them on a drive up Mt. Herman, down rampart, or over to frosty park, what do you think they'd notice? Which group of outdoor enthusiasts? They MIGHT notice a dirt bike tread mark off the trial, they MIGHT notice a pair of truck tracks in a mud hole..they they COULDN'T miss the hundreds of shot in half trees, the piles of shells, the tons of garbage left by shooters.

I know that YOU guys clean up your crap, but there are many many more who don't.


Maybe the new restrictions will bring on increased education/awareness programs and once they start packing out their trash, the areas will be reopened?

Not sure? Not saying I'm right, just giving my opinion.

I love you all. :grinpimp:

:cheers:
 
It's the age old I don't like what you do so I will stop you because we have an organized association that can. We let them close the trails down bottom line. If we took a stand as an organization with a back bone there wouldn't be many who could stop us. It's just takes time and understanding all the loop holes as well as getting organized. You close down rampart shooting range and they move to other areas that are not to far and destroy that as well. Keep it in a couple spots and they only jack up a little area. Closing trails down does nothing but make a bigger mess. Pretty soon "they" have all the trails closed just like "they" wanted. I see beer cans and bottles everywhere and I don't jump to conclusions that everyone who drinks throws there can on the ground. I agree that someone shooting by your camp site sucks but so does coming back from a trail ride and finding a couple campers with horses parked next to you.
 
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