Old stage road closed? Why

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:worms::worms:

I know what you are trying to say Travis but the way you are thinking about it is part of the problem with land use restrictions. Didn't you listen to Bill the other night? I have watched western land use changes over the past several decades and not for the better all the time. Just wait and see what it is like in another 10 -20 years, you won't be able to wipe your @ss in the woods anymore. Actually, that may be a good thing at the 14er base camps :idea: Instead of banning certain activities figure out a way to make it work. By the way, how many people have been injured or killed on public land with an accident involving firearms and people outside their immediate group? Said another way, hit by a stray. Remember what you wrote about mountain bikers hitting other trail users causing injury or even death (not said by you). Heck, at Garden of the Gods a couple of mountain bikers threatened a park ranger when she told them not to create their own trial!! I have had numbers ATV's and motorcycles come screaming around a corner only to see my ARB number staring them in the face. By the look on their faces I suspect they needed a change of shorts afterwards. The numbers just don't support the over reaction of dangerous activity. However, I am not saying there isn't an opportunity for better safety or education.

I do take issue with this "I know that YOU guys clean up your crap, but there are many many more who don't." and other overly dramatic comments about tons of trash hundreds of trees. Similar could be said for 4 wheelers. As for trash yes they are idiots and need to clean up their act just as the 4 wheelers tossing their beer cans and McDonald bags out the window as they cut a new trail through a meadow ;). Overall, I think the off road community causes more forest damage than shooters do. Last point in my rant is I do know of shooters that go out to clean up "informal" ranges on forest land, not necessarily the ones you mentioned but I don't know about those.

I love ya too Travis, in a purely brotherly sense.
 
So sensible moderation and mutual respect of all users would work if everyone participated, otherwise the responsible parties that try to play nice with others just feel screwed and taken advantage of. In short people SUCK and if we truly were concerned with mother earth we would stop breeding like rodents with very few predators start with the man in the mirror to steal Micheal Jackson's line....

Just try to pack out more than you pack in and try to be a good ambassador.
 
:deadhorse:

Regarding if motorized off road community or shooters cause more resource damage.

I consulted a local land use expert with 30 yrs experience in the area whose name shall not be mentioned ;) I am boiling it down to the take home points but in his opinion the motorized off road users cause more resource damage due to soil disturbance. That damage requires fencing, seeding, filling in erosion and ruts and potentially other mitigation actions. Some areas have not recovered in 20 years due to poor soil conditions on steep slopes (hill climbers). While shooting trees and leaving trash has a larger visual impact being close to roads the Forest service can go in and cut down the trees and clean up an area and it looks like a small natural meadow afterwards. In fact ,he said the the Forest Service clears about the same area of trees as some of the "shooting ranges" to create landings, so does the Forest Service kill/damage just as many trees as shooters? I don't mean to imply that he is not upset at what some shooters are doing out there. That is it in a nutshell.
 
Stokes said:
Still deciding whether or not i should step into this discussion on shooting or not. :hmm:
Click to expand...

:eek: DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!! IT'S NOT WORTH IT !!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
 
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