Oil Pump Leaking - Post TB Service? (1 Viewer)

[SilverHundo]

Hey all,

2001 LC100 with 300,000 miles. Had a small oil leak before TB/WP service. Maybe a dime sized spot after sitting for a few days. Had a local Toyota Shop do the TB/WP and had them replace the cam and crank seals while they were in there.

Since that TB/WP service (April), the oil leak has continued but gotten worse and worse (two half dollar spots after sitting overnight). These spots are dripping off the oil pan. I took it back to the same shop and they cleaned everything off and found an oil leak from the oil pump (see pic below). They are putting two quotes together....one to pull the engine and replace the Oil Pump O-Ring. And one to try to their best to "band aid" it with a sealant of some sort.

My question is...this seems like a very rare oil leak (the shop said they've never seen an oil pump leak on a 100 series). And it seems like a huge coincidence that the leak seemed to develop/get worse right after they did the TB/WP. Could they have missed a step during reassembly that's causing this leak? Any other recommendations before I consider forking over (probably thousands?) of dollars for them to pull the motor to replace an O-Ring?

I did do a search and another thread mentioned sealer being placed on the thread of the tensioner bolt...but that doesn't seem related to this leak location?

Any thoughts or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

 

[OregonLC]

The FSM doesn't show that an Engine R&R is required. I'd first start by questioning that. Perhaps they're thinking an engine-out job is easier for pan removal?

There is no step in the timing belt job that could have been missed; the oil pump is not touched. It could be a situation where a 'helpful' tech tried to remedy a small leak by torquing that bolt which made the problem worse.

The bummer is, the entire TB job has to be reversed to get it out. If that bolt were the offender causing the small drips prior to the job then you should have been advised as such when it was originally at the shop. I would argue this in negotiating cost. Fair would be to pay the marginal cost to repair, not a complete tear down.

If the new belt is contaminated by oil I'd ask that to be replaced as well. In addition, I'd want a new TB tensioner. Even though they can be compressed and re-used I would rather have a virgin unit.

 

[SilverHundo]

The FSM doesn't show that an Engine R&R is required. I'd first start by questioning that. Perhaps they're thinking an engine-out job is easier for pan removal?

There is no step in the timing belt job that could have been missed; the oil pump is not touched. It could be a situation where a 'helpful' tech tried to remedy a small leak by torquing that bolt which made the problem worse.

The bummer is, the entire TB job has to be reversed to get it out. If that bolt were the offender causing the small drips prior to the job then you should have been advised as such when it was originally at the shop. I would argue this in negotiating cost. Fair would be to pay the marginal cost to repair, not a complete tear down.

If the new belt is contaminated by oil I'd ask that to be replaced as well. In addition, I'd want a new TB tensioner. Even though they can be compressed and re-used I would rather have a virgin unit.

The FSM doesn't show that an Engine R&R is required. I'd first start by questioning that. Perhaps they're thinking an engine-out job is easier for pan removal?

There is no step in the timing belt job that could have been missed; the oil pump is not touched. It could be a situation where a 'helpful' tech tried to remedy a small leak by torquing that bolt which made the problem worse.

The bummer is, the entire TB job has to be reversed to get it out. If that bolt were the offender causing the small drips prior to the job then you should have been advised as such when it was originally at the shop. I would argue this in negotiating cost. Fair would be to pay the marginal cost to repair, not a complete tear down.

If the new belt is contaminated by oil I'd ask that to be replaced as well. In addition, I'd want a new TB tensioner. Even though they can be compressed and re-used I would rather have a virgin unit.

Thank you! Sounds like some really good advice...

 

[UltTrail runner]

While I was doing my timing belt job. I accidentally took one bolt of the oil pump off. And I found it after a few steps. You can tell the position of the water pump bolt and the oil pump bolt are very close. I was able to reinstall the oil pump bolt based on FSM torque specs.

 

[excessive]

im willing to bet that's valve covers and not the oil pump

 

[OregonLC]

im willing to bet that's valve covers and not the oil pump

Except it starts at the oil pump bolt. Hard to be certain with the shadows in the pic, but I don't see the same flow from above, just wetness from the leak.

 

[SilverHundo]

I'm driving over there tomorrow morning to check it out in person so will check valve covers really well.

 

[SilverHundo]

One more pic they sent:

 

[awesomeissquid]

The FSM doesn't show that an Engine R&R is required. I'd first start by questioning that. Perhaps they're thinking an engine-out job is easier for pan removal?

Step 1 in the FSM for the Oil Pump under the Lubrication section is to remove the engine from the vehicle so it doesn't sound like the shop is that far off.

Some have pulled the front diff to have access to remove the oil pans, but the upper pan has some hidden bolts that are tricky by the rear of the engine and the bell housing.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

The FSM doesn't show that an Engine R&R is required. I'd first start by questioning that. Perhaps they're thinking an engine-out job is easier for pan removal?

The FSM most certainly does say to remove the engine from the truck to replace the oil pump.

Some have pulled the front diff to have access to remove the oil pans, but the upper pan has some hidden bolts that are tricky by the rear of the engine and the bell housing.

But this is what I would do. You have to drop the upper pan to get the oil pump off.

 

[shevy77]

@patchagan did a video a few weeks ago showing how he replaced this oil pump seal.

 

[OregonLC]

Step 1 in the FSM for the Oil Pump under the Lubrication section is to remove the engine from the vehicle so it doesn't sound like the shop is that far off.

Some have pulled the front diff to have access to remove the oil pans, but the upper pan has some hidden bolts that are tricky by the rear of the engine and the bell housing.

The FSM most certainly does say to remove the engine from the truck to replace the oil pump.


But this is what I would do. You have to drop the upper pan to get the oil pump off.

Different FSM maybe? This is the one I'm referencing.

It looks like if you pull the front diff support you gain a lot of room.

If the engine does have to come out, at 300k miles I'd strongly consider a low-mile Tundra mill. I think there's good arguments with keeping the original engine too, you just have to weigh costs and how long you intend to keep it.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

Different FSM maybe? This is the one I'm referencing.

It looks like if you pull the front diff support you gain a lot of room.

If the engine does have to come out, at 300k miles I'd strongly consider a low-mile Tundra mill. I think there's good arguments with keeping the original engine too, you just have to weigh costs and how long you intend to keep it.

View attachment 3138477

View attachment 3138478

Wonder what model year that’s for. My 2000 hard copy FSM says to pull the engine.

 

[OregonLC]

Looks like it has a range of years. But while the top end changed (VVT-i) the bottom should have been consistent across all years?

And the 15100-50050 Pump is shown to fill 98-06.

But yet the part shows only 8/02-5/05. So maybe there was a change in with the 2003?

Then it changes to the 15100-50040. I could see the VVT-i requiring a higher flow or pressure but the 06 shouldn't have come out until fall of 2005?

 

[SilverHundo]

So I stopped by this morning and they had the timing cover off. They took their time and showed me the leak. Did not see anything from the valve cover so it looks like it's definitely coming from behind the oil pump. They work on a lot of 4.7s and said they have never seen this leak. Guess I'm the lucky winner...

 

[neoworm]

I had to replace my oil pump thanks to some ham fisted tech that stripped my tensioner pulley threads.

I dropped my diff and that gave me more than enough room to remove the upper and lower pan. Resealing the pans again is the tricky part but if you clean everything up well and have a buddy help you eyeball the pan back on it's not a big deal to do. With a hoist it would be even easier.

If you're not doing it yourself though I guess you'll have to talk to them about which option the prefer. It is definitely possible to do without removing the engine.

 

[nissanh]

What oils were you using before and after Tb job? Non-synthetic/conventional and then went to synthetic?

My 97 4runner also have developed a leak by that O-ring and seeps a little. Might switch to conventional engine oil

 

[SilverHundo]

What oils were you using before and after Tb job? Non-synthetic/conventional and then went to synthetic?

My 97 4runner also have developed a leak by that O-ring and seeps a little. Might switch to conventional engine oil

I use whatever good synthetic is on sale at the time. Either M-1, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, or Valvoline.

Have not changed the oil since doing the TB. It's on my list though as soon as I get it back.

 

[abuck99]

I had to replace my oil pump thanks to some ham fisted tech that stripped my tensioner pulley threads.

I dropped my diff and that gave me more than enough room to remove the upper and lower pan. Resealing the pans again is the tricky part but if you clean everything up well and have a buddy help you eyeball the pan back on it's not a big deal to do. With a hoist it would be even easier.

If you're not doing it yourself though I guess you'll have to talk to them about which option the prefer. It is definitely possible to do without removing the engine.

Question on your procedure: did you pull the knuckles, cv axles, and completely remove the front diff, or leave the driveline intact, remove cross member, unbolt and lower the diff down?

 

[neoworm]

Question on your procedure: did you pull the knuckles, cv axles, and completely remove the front diff, or leave the driveline intact, remove cross member, unbolt and lower the diff down?

It's been awhile since I did it but I'm pretty sure I left the knuckles in place. IIRC I just removed the c-clips and slid the axles out the back as I removed the diff. Yes I removed the rear xmember.

I've removed a few engines and taking out the front diff to replace the oil pan certainly seemed like a lot less hassle to me. I'm pretty sure the only reason Toyota specifies removing the engine is to make reinstalling the pans easier. With the engine out you can turn it upside down and get the surfaces oil free and really make sure the pans are sealed well.

with the engine in you've got oil running down the inside of the block and you are working upside down over your head and possibly on your back. Higher chance you won't get a good seal on the pan.

HOWEVER, it is possible you just need to be patient and check everything 5 times. It really helped to have a second set of eyes and hands when I did it.