Oil Change Frequency

[sandcruiser]

Doing some regular maintenance today, oil change, tranny, tcase, air filter...
and while looking at the owner's manual I noticed that it recommends 3,000km for oil but 6,000 for oil AND filter.

thoughts?

Seems that changing the filter makes sense when you change the oil, but then, the filters do cost a little over $15 each, and are pretty huge, so it is tempting to just change the oil every other change.

Was pleased to see that the 80w90 was nice and clean with minimal shavings. It has been a year and I don't know how many KM (can't recall right now) since I changed it. Not sure what the heavy-use schedual is on tcase/tranny, but I drive 90% of my time off-road on either DUST or MUD, very little in between, so changing the stuff annually seems like a pretty good idea.

Same story for the air filter. Amazing how dirty they get with all this dirt!

 

[VTCruiser]

i run amsoil HD full synthetic 15w40. The amsoil oil change interval (OCI) rating for this oil is 25,000 miles or 1 year, which ever comes first. HOWEVER, without a oil analysis done on the oil out of your engine, i don't recommend going this long. Oil contamination (fuel/water etc) is a big factor in how long oil will last so it depends on the shape of your engine.

I change the oil and filter every 10,000km until i get an oil analysis done to tell me otherwise.

 

[cruiser_guy]

I do my oil every 5000 kM on my BJ60 here in Guatemala. Fortunately the 3B uses a Fram PH8A or equivalent which is one of the cheapest filters out there. I use dino in the engine because synthetic is expensive and hard to find here in Central America but I use synthetic in the tranny/transfer and axles because it seems to roll a little better with synthetic (can find synthetic gear oil at NAPA here in Guatemala City but they look at me a little weird since it's so expensive).

 

[brownbear]

Dec 28 we had a similar thread........

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=71543

shall we merge them together and make big one?

or keep this alone? opinions?

 

[Ruffy]

Well for starters you need to consider that carbon breaks down engine oil. So as soon as you run your engine the oil picks up carbon deposits and starts its process. This applies to all mineral oils and lots of synthetics as many synthetics are part mineral part synthetic. The time taken to break down the oil depends on the amount of carbon (ie, engine condition) and the quality of the oil. Most literature will state 6 months life some 12 months.
Secondly, i don't know what prices are like over there but here in Oz a ryco filter costs me about 20 bucks, an engine rebuild on my 2H diesel about 4 grand. Cheap filter really!!
I change my oil about 4 times a year and do about 5000km a year if i'm lucky. Whenever i go out hard core or do a competition i change the oil afterwards, Reason? Because the main job of the engine oil is to transfer heat out of many of the internal components and lubricate and clean them at the same time. If you've been flogging the arse out of your engine all weekend then your engine oils has been roasted for every minute of it. The hotter the oil gets the more carbon it collects, the more it breaks down and the more quality it loses which reduces it's ability to clean the engine and transfer heat. as it cools down from this state it bonds to carbon and impurities rather than fresh oil which can dispose of them through filtration. Next time your start your engine your asking the oil pump to fill your engine with over worked, carbon saturated, impurity ridden sludge!
Look at engine oil like blood in a human. Your engine doesn't have a kidney to clean the oil though! Regular changes will extend the life of your engine, all things being equal!
Sorry to post such a long thread and babble but it's fave topic of mine.
Cheers

 

[sandcruiser]

I'm all for merging.


Hope I didn't give the impression that I had waited a year to change oil- not the case. I stick to the 3 months rule, mostly, as I don't usually do 3,000 nor 5,000 km in a three month period.
My question was aimed more at understanding if I read the service manual correctly- from what I see, it says to change oil every 3,000 and oil and filter every 6,000 (or 3 months/6 months I think). So you change filter every other oil change.
Which leads me to: better to "waste" the $15 and change filter? or is it really okay to run the same filter?

 

[cruiser_guy]

Why put clean oil through a dirty filter? I know the books all say that but I've been "wasting" oil filters as long as I've owned a vehicle and I'll continue to do so!

 

[Stone]

The last word...

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

 

[wesintl]

since I didn't reply to either..

I run Rotella syn 5w-40 change at 5,000km and filters at 10k km

Unless i've been in the desert of UT in really dusty conditions. Then I will change immediatly after the trip.

 

[Stone]

I run Rotella syn...

Wesintl:

I recently put synthetic in my 13B-T, and was initially looking at the Rotella SB, but decided on using the Esso XD3 instead. The XD3 was a really good value at Wal*Mart, and Greg B. used it last winter in his BJ74. So far there has been no oil consumption in about 2k kms of use, and the oil seems to migrate to the top of my engine a lotg faster at startup and there's less clatter and noise overall.

The interval that I'm thinking about implementing is changing oil filters (and topping up the oil) every 5k kms and the synthetic oil every 10k kms.

 

[wesintl]

Take a sample at 5k and at 10k KM and send it out for oil analysis. It'd be interesting to see stone.

I'm probably relaxed on my 5k km changes because it's only 3k miles.. I usually change my TDI and camry at 5k miles....

I've never seen the esso XD3 but it could be branded under something else.

This last time I did change the oil with 15w-40 royal purple instead of rotella. I seem to really like the hydro cracked rot syn.

 

[Stone]

I might do that, Wes...I heard it's fairly inexpensive to do. I know Greg B. would also be interested in the results...especially since I'm not contaminating my oil with Lucas this time around.

 

[brownbear]

Why put clean oil through a dirty filter? I know the books all say that but I've been "wasting" oil filters as long as I've owned a vehicle and I'll continue to do so!

Theres one thought I disagree on. I don't think the oil filter is dirty. Or anywhere near full(of contaminates).

The oil thats left in the engine is dirtier, sure. But you can never get the whole amount out anyhow. and the little bit left in a filter is minimal. New oil generally turns back after one start up. regardless of oil filter change.

For me, I see no problem going two oil changes in a row, or if you like frequent changes, every couple months on oil, Then I would more than two with the filter.

Once the particulate dirt is captured, its not going to make the new oil less fresh or viscous. It still has the properties to lubricate. That doesn't change.

Now go ahead and change filters as much as you want. I do it every other. But I like fresh oil. Great insurance.

 

[sandcruiser]

seems to me that if the filter is just removing particulates and soot, it doesn't seem likely that it would be full over the course of one oil change.... its a pretty large filter! And fairly expensive, too.
One thing I woudl like to try is re-using the 'used' filter to filter waste veggie oil. Yes, I know, it would get some oil in it. Not a problem- a cup of oil into 30 gallons of Voil isn't likely to create problems for me, I don't think.
the only thing I'm having trouble figuring out is: how can I tell if the filter bypass is activated? and can I disable it?

 

[cruiser_guy]

Theres one thought I disagree on. I don't think the oil filter is dirty. Or anywhere near full(of contaminates).

The oil thats left in the engine is dirtier, sure. But you can never get the whole amount out anyhow. and the little bit left in a filter is minimal. New oil generally turns back after one start up. regardless of oil filter change.

For me, I see no problem going two oil changes in a row, or if you like frequent changes, every couple months on oil, Then I would more than two with the filter.

Once the particulate dirt is captured, its not going to make the new oil less fresh or viscous. It still has the properties to lubricate. That doesn't change.

Now go ahead and change filters as much as you want. I do it every other. But I like fresh oil. Great insurance.

The old filter will not make the new oil dirty (other than the particulate that is too small to be captured effectively) but it WILL have a higher resistance to oil flow so your oil pressure will be higher trying to push through the filter that is partially clogged while having less pressure available to lubricate the engine. Should the filter for some reason get dirty enough it could break and release all the dirt back into the engine if the bypass doesn't release.
For $3 or 4 per oil change for a Fram PH8A or equivalent why take the chance?

 

[sandcruiser]

For $3 or 4 per oil change for a Fram PH8A or equivalent why take the chance?

Using a cheap fram that you change every oil change vs. using a high-quality filter that you skip changes.... I'd go with the expensive filter.
Of course, you can still get a Wix (Napa Gold) in that size for cheap.
The thing is, the stock filter on a 2H is HUGE. I use fleetguard 3399 (I think that's the number) and it is at least twice the size of the ph8a.
which to me, begs the question: is a 2H really going to have that much more to filter than a 3b? Or did Toyota spec an oversize filter so you could skip changing it?

 

[cruiser_guy]

Using a cheap fram that you change every oil change vs. using a high-quality filter that you skip changes.... I'd go with the expensive filter.
Of course, you can still get a Wix (Napa Gold) in that size for cheap.
The thing is, the stock filter on a 2H is HUGE. I use fleetguard 3399 (I think that's the number) and it is at least twice the size of the ph8a.
which to me, begs the question: is a 2H really going to have that much more to filter than a 3b? Or did Toyota spec an oversize filter so you could skip changing it?

I use a Fleetguard (when I can find it). Fram is the last choice but even so with a Fleetguard that might cost $10 - 15 I'll still change the filter EVERY oil change.

 

[M John Galt]

Useful information on oil filters

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

 

[brownbear]

The old filter will not make the new oil dirty (other than the particulate that is too small to be captured effectively) but it WILL have a higher resistance to oil flow so your oil pressure will be higher trying to push through the filter that is partially clogged while having less pressure available to lubricate the engine. Should the filter for some reason get dirty enough it could break and release all the dirt back into the engine if the bypass doesn't release.
For $3 or 4 per oil change for a Fram PH8A or equivalent why take the chance?

I see your point forsure. Its right on.

BUT I feel in one oil change it is nowhere even close to causing an oil restriction.

A used filter iMOP will flow almost the same.

One way to see, cut it open after at oil change, see what it looks like. Sure it will be black from the oil.

But you should not see too much.

On aircraft we insp the filters for metal every time.

On turbines I work on, I look at the filter and put it back in. It just a metal/dirt inspection. the filter gets changed out every 1000hrs.

If your using cheap 5-8 buck filters for the time it takes toss on a new one everytime.

On 2h with a biggie filter use it a few times. Twice if your comfortable with that. To me the most important thing is fresh oil.

Of course it just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, eh?

 

[sandcruiser]

just no salt in the oil, else you'll have to change the filter for sure.

I do agree, in theory, that swapping in a new filter can't be worse than leaving the old one for two changes.... but I'm all for saving $15 if the motor doesn't know the difference. From what I've seen here- it appears that we don't have any definate reason to believe that re-using the filter once is going to do any harm.