Offroad Snow Driving Tips?

[SimonInAustralia]

Can anyone give me some tips on offroad driving in the snow?

Most people that give advice on Australian forums say to just air down the tyres, but I'm not sure if they are really getting offroad onto 4WD tracks, rather than well graded dirt logging roads.

I want to get into some remote backcountry snow locations, some of which are on 4WD tracks that are not graded, and which have some steep sections of the track.

These tracks will have deep snow, that has most likely not been driven on before I go through there. And our snow is usually not light/dry powder, but wet and heavy snow.

Should I just air down the tyres, or use chunky snow chains?

Do I use normal onroad tyre pressures with snow chains, or does it help to air down as well when using snow chains offroad?

I plan to get one of the spade type recovery anchors as well to allow me to winch myself up/down steeper sections if the aired down tyres and/or snow chains don't get me up/down those sections.

Any tips and advice would be most appreciated.

 

[dgangle]

Ice and snow can hide lots of things you may not want to discover unknowingly. My advice would be to wheel where you are familiar, have your own recovery equipment as well as a friend go with you in an equally prepared vehicle. Normal common sense plus a factor of safety.

 

[eleblanc]

yes air down, but bring the chains. under then that, beware that inertia may be your worse enemy.

If the snow is deep you will need to get traction from the ground, if the ground is frozen solid, the you will need chains.

You really need 2 trucks other wise it can turn into a nightmare quickly

What kind of tire and size you have

 

[eleblanc]

Here you might get a kick out of this,

Chains would have help. This was in december so the ground wasnt frozen yet.

http://www.ericleblanc.com/files/ericleblanc/video/4x4/061211_weir_1f.wmv

 

[george_tlc]

My fun in the snow last w/end

Red Mountain camp area

I think chains would be a good investment to allow the tyres to grip 'something'. A winch is a good idea as is synthetic rope. A shovel is a good idea. A positive attitude to getting stuck is a good idea. Being cautious and willing to turn around is a good idea.

Lots of good ideas.... Keep warm (when winter arrives)

And, you will need to wait for winter... Snow in oz - must be on the south/east coast or tassie 'cos I've yet to see more than 'frost' most other spots in oz.

cheers,
george.

 

[SimonInAustralia]

Ice and snow can hide lots of things you may not want to discover unknowingly. My advice would be to wheel where you are familiar, have your own recovery equipment as well as a friend go with you in an equally prepared vehicle. Normal common sense plus a factor of safety.

Yes, I have been in there a couple of times already during spring/summer, and plan a couple more trips before our winter starts around June, recording tracks on my GPS and marking waypoints where there are obstacles I don't want to run over/fall into when it is covered by snow.

Will have my own recovery equipment, with a winch already on the front of the truck, possibly a winch on the rear as well, winch extenders, tree protectors, etc., will buy portable recovery anchor.

Plan to get front/rear lockers in it as well before winter, deciding between ARB Air Lockers or the new (to my type of truck) Eaton/Harrop ELockers, which I started another thread about.

Unfortunately will probably not be able to go in with another equally prepared vehicle, as I don't think I will be able to find anyone that wants to do it. It is to access some backcountry snowboarding terrain, based out of a mountain hut for a few days, and I don't know anyone that wants to do that, who has a tough truck as well. That's why I want to get as much info and appropriate gear as possible to give me the best chance of getting in and out by myself.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

yes air down, but bring the chains. under then that, beware that inertia may be your worse enemy.

If the snow is deep you will need to get traction from the ground, if the ground is frozen solid, the you will need chains.

You really need 2 trucks other wise it can turn into a nightmare quickly

What kind of tire and size you have

You have no traction so if those are 16" tires you can air' em down to maybe 12 psi and keep experimenting. My 33X12.5 Truxus on my (BJ74) often spins at 12 psi, but at 8.5 psi they walk over deep snow easily A few psi can make a big difference.

 

[SimonInAustralia]

yes air down, but bring the chains. under then that, beware that inertia may be your worse enemy.

What sort of tyre pressure do you recommend airing down to for snow?

I plan to get some internal beadlocks to help avoid rolling a bead off at low pressures.

Do you keep the tyres aired down with chains, or take them back up to highway pressure when fitting the chains?

What kind of tire and size you have

I have Mickey Thompson MTZ in a 305/70R16 (approx 33x12") at the moment.

I plan to go up to a 315/75R16 (approx 35x12.5") MTZ in the future, but not sure if this will happen by this winter, as I think I need a little guard chopping/tubbing to make them fit with chains and without rubbing on the guards.

This is my truck, which has had a 2" body lift since this pic was taken, in preparation for the future bigger (315/75R16) tyres...

 

[SimonInAustralia]

And, you will need to wait for winter... Snow in oz - must be on the south/east coast or tassie 'cos I've yet to see more than 'frost' most other spots in oz.

cheers,
george.

Yes, obviously no snow down here with the 40 degrees C (104F) summer temps we have been having lately...our winter starts around June.

Will be in our poor excuse for mountains (rolling hills compared to the US mountains) in the South-East of the main continant, which do get a little bit of snow cover from about June through to September/October. With possibly a similar snow consistancy to the US East Coast mountains, rather than the US West Coast mountains.

I do plan to get down to Tassie as well at some stage to check it out during winter as well.

These are some pics of some of our snow covered 'mountains' from a backcountry mission last winter...
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii287/SimonInAustralia/Mount Bogong 12 to 15 July 2008/

 

[SimonInAustralia]

My fun in the snow last w/end

Red Mountain camp area

Nice.

Is that Red Mountain in Rossland, BC?

If so, it is on my list of future overseas snowboarding holidays, it has a good reputation for a steep, and small, ski resort.

 

[crushers]

momentum is your friend in winter... yah, yah, i read the post where inertial is not your friend. BS.
but
be prepared, i wheeled for decades in the Rocky foothills in Alberta and many years of going solo. you need a good winch (Warn 8274), locker in the rear is nice, shovel is a must, highlift is a good idea, a good heater is a great idea when you just crawled out of your truck into knee deep water to walk the winch cable to the nearest tree, axe, paper and matches (in water proof container), food for 1 day of each 4 hours driving time, and traction.

you need traction, mud tires aired down to 18 psi, ice tires are a VERY good idea, tractor tires are the best for snow but they suck on ice. chains are a great idea, get a set for all 4 tires but drive carefully with them, the traction they give can snap birfs, ujoints, tear off tierod ends, brake lines, so once they are on then slow and steady and DO NOT spin the tires or get ready for a nice long walk home.

common sense will prevent you from doign something stupid. if somewhere in you mind a idea pops up "this could be dangerous" and you are alone then find a different way around or turn back... your life could depend on it.

it is always better to travel with a coupel other trucks and GOOD drivers.

if you do get stuck, flipped, broken down, DO NOT PANIC. it will only make matters worse. if you have to go light a fire, sit down, relax and look at the situation with a calm mind. think outside the box and usually a solution will come to you.

most important, let someone know EXACTLY where you are going, how long you will be gone and DO NOT leave your prearrange path. you can always go back and try that tangent at a later date.

a radio, cell phone, ham radio, sat phone (depending on your finances) are a good idea but do not rely on them to get you out of the s***-show you got yourself into.

the most important is common sense, if you do not have it then do not travel in the winter alone.

me, i don't have common sense just a s***load of luck.

prepare properly and go have fun, there is nothing prettier than a fresh snow covered virgin trail just waiting for you to deflower it. take your camera and post up some pics.

 

[eleblanc]

You have no traction so if those are 16" tires you can air' em down to maybe 12 psi and keep experimenting. My 33X12.5 Truxus on my (BJ74) often spins at 12 psi, but at 8.5 psi they walk over deep snow easily A few psi can make a big difference.

My truck is too heavy for 12 psi, at 12 psi i can almost sit the rim on the ground when flexing.

 

[eleblanc]

momentum is your friend in winter... yah, yah, i read the post where inertial is not your friend. BS.

Yes momentum is your friend until you get seriously jack up on snow....that is what i meant. if you are alone without anyone to pull you out, beware of momentum. If there is a other truck around, Hey, floor it and have fun

 

[eleblanc]

landcruisers are heavy truck, i wheeled tons of time with my jeep buddy, and not doubt, they always want me at the back, they know i'll mess up the trail. They runs 35x12.5 tires and air down a bit it helps them run over compacted snow and not go down the ground. Me instead, i'm a heavy weight, so airing down won't help much, cause i'm always going for the ground. It really depends on the type of snow the temperature. But with your kind of rig, chains will be your best friend, and a winch! Just like i said, if i'd be on a 3700# rig i would probably try more often momentum, but with 5000# + rig we use, if you try to give yourself momentum you just may end up being in a much worse situation. Last thing you want is lose 4 hours digging up all the snow under the truck, because you are jack up.

My tires are 255/85/16. so about 33.5"x10", in the snow airing down wont do s***. i would need 37x13.5" to see a difference in the snow when aired down and even. When i say snow i'm talk deep enough to drive over it. Just watch the topgear arctic expedition, they use huge tires and even tho.

EDIT: Simon, i just checked your pictures, Do you have lockers?, not much snow there.

 

[george_tlc]

Nice.

Is that Red Mountain in Rossland, BC?

If so, it is on my list of future overseas snowboarding holidays, it has a good reputation for a steep, and small, ski resort.

Nope, this is in northern california - just the name of one of the peaks between Hwy 101 and 5 (a bit south of hwy 36). Around 5500' elevation - just a medium bump in the earth here

I'm from w.a. (oz) so know your typical 4wding experiences - though it appears you have played a bit in the white stuff already.

From my very limited snow driving/fun I can say it is similar to sand driving, except the stuff is bloody cold and and can become slippery (the solid state of water we don't often see other than in a freezer over there ). The major difference I found was a) it's cold, b) it can hide stuff (rocks, fallen trees, ditches etc) c) you can high center/sink a lot easier in it d) it's BLOODY cold etc etc...

All the standard recovery gear for driving in sand & mud would be useful. Lockers at least in the rear are a good idea. Also take the standard survival gear/equipment you would typically take on a trip to the sticks. Chains for front/rear are something I'd recommend if there is any ice around. I'd want to be able to practice with the chains before the trip AND also do some practice driving in snow/ice before heading too far offroad. Your troopie is at least as heavy as my 80 and they are both boat anchors when it comes to snow

Like I wrote before (and a few others have), be prepared to turn around and have a positive attitude.

I went into the area in the vid with amateur radio gear and I was transmitting position fixes and my wife back at home could monitor my progress and keep an eye on me Cell phone coverage is obviously non-existent in areas our 4wds typically can take us.

cheers,
george.

 

[Phil in BC]

Simon
If you think Red Mountain is good, which it is, then you should look at Revelstoke Mountain Resort. Totally wicked place to ride. I'm there every weekend it snows.

Phil

 

[SimonInAustralia]

Simon
If you think Red Mountain is good, which it is, then you should look at Revelstoke Mountain Resort. Totally wicked place to ride. I'm there every weekend it snows.

Phil

Thanks Phil...yes Revelstoke is another that will happen on the same holiday. A friend lived there, or near there for a year a couple of years ago, he worked with the cat skiing operation at Revelstoke for some of it, and always talks about Rogers Pass. Also want to get to Kicking Horse on the same trip, and maybe a week long backcountry lodge such as Battle Abbey out of Golden.

 

[SimonInAustralia]

Chains for front/rear are something I'd recommend if there is any ice around. I'd want to be able to practice with the chains before the trip AND also do some practice driving in snow/ice before heading too far offroad. Your troopie is at least as heavy as my 80 and they are both boat anchors when it comes to snow

Thanks George, I am used to driving a troopy on chains after spending a few weeks of each of the last 6 or 7 years snowboarding in New Zealand, living in the same sort of troopy campervan. Although those ski field access roads are pretty well graded and not quite as rough or steep as the ones I want to head in on here. So I am used to driving with 4 wheel chains, and put a turbo onto my troopy to try and over come it being such a boat anchor, they don't have much power for their weight with a normally aspirated diesel.

 

[SimonInAustralia]

EDIT: Simon, i just checked your pictures, Do you have lockers?, not much snow there.

Thanks for the tips so far, and your video, your rig does move around quite a lot on the snow. I assume by the french speaking that you are somehwere French Canadian like Quebec?

No lockers as yet, but definately plan to get front and rear lockers before our winter, they are next on the list of modifcations to do (before stepping up in tyre size).

I am trying to decide between ARB Air Lockers or new models of the Eaton ELocker (electric) that have been recently developed for the 70 series (and other Toyotas such as the hilux and 80 series) in conjunction with an Australian auto performance company called Harrop Engineering. Can't really find much information on how the Eaton ELocker design compares to the ARB Air Lockers in terms of use and reliability.

And yes, not much snow in those photos (not that we get much down here anyway, only on the tops of some mountains, not full coverage everywhere like you guys would get), and it is not the same area I am concerned about getting into this winter, as the area in that photo has well graded logging roads, instead of the rougher 4WD tracks in the other area I want to get in to.

I couldn't get any further up the road in the photo I posted above, as it was blocked by a fallen tree, and I had to skin up the road a few miles on my split snowboard (like skis) to get to the end of that road where the walking track up onto the top of the mountain started. The cover got a little deeper and the road a little steeper up near the top of it. I'll need to get a chainsaw as well to deal with the fallen trees that often block the roads in that state forest.

 

[BlackSmoker]

Nice.

Is that Red Mountain in Rossland, BC?

If so, it is on my list of future overseas snowboarding holidays, it has a good reputation for a steep, and small, ski resort.

Simon I was born in Rossland BC and it is one of the best hills around. Check out Whitewater in Nelson and Fernie is good too. There is alot of terrain to ski, snowmobile and Mountain bike in all of BC. We are oh so lucky.