Obamacare- I have to say it

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Yes, but that specific cost won't go to any drug company profits. That's all hospital profit/offset.
Sorry, didn't mean to insinuate that it went to Big P. But it IS going somewhere. Why? Are there really so many people in the chain from receiving the prepackaged 2-packs to final distribution to the patient that they need to charge $199.60 more than it would cost me from a bottle on my own? That's worse than the guy flipping @jamesurq CJ and boat!:p
 
From my experience John, yeah, they are that boated and inefficient, and worst of all, they don't care to fix it because they refuse to listen, they think they are too special. I got stories, but will only tell you around the campfire at Hurricane creek. By the way, its called Hurricane creek because it flows with 2 kinds of rums and tropical juices, right?
 
I don't want to defend most Big Pharma companies, becuase just like in any business, a few bad apples spoil the basket. But, knowing what I know in what goes into the manufacturing processes for drugs, I can tell you it's expensive. Yes, you have to make a decent profit, because unlike other commodities sold on a market, drug failures are about 90%.

Here's a manufacturing similarity: If Toyota created 100 different types/lines of cars, gave about 5000-12000 people their own car to drive around for 5-7 years before deciding only 10 of them would actually work/sell, what do you think a new Landcruiser would cost you today? Oh, and by the way, the 10 cars you just made are going to be copied by Nissan 7 years after you start selling them and there is nothing you can do about it?

You opened it :worms: :)

Yes, I agree whole-heartedly and am much healthier today than I was 12 months ago because of big Pharma and reasonable healthcare coverage. In '09 it was discovered that I had a chronic blood infection that impacts something like 5 million Americans. I have none of the risk categories for this particular illness other than my mother having numerous transfusions prior to my birth (before this particular bug was known). I went through an agonizing treatment in '09 that failed ....

Fast forward to late last year and there is a new treatment available. 95+% cure rate ... only one hitch, it costs $90K per month for 3 months of treatment. It took me, my doctor, and his treatment nurse 3 months of wrangling with insurance before they would pay it and in the end, it appears the treatment worked (I will proclaim myself fully clear when the January 2016 lab results come in). But here's the deal ... the alternative was continuing to live with a disease that runs a better than 80 percent risk of leading to cancer prior to my 65th birthday. Probabilistic finance says the present cost of the treatment was far and away less than the potential for chemo and transplant surgery down the road. The treatment was expensive as hell, but there have been 3 other drugs in the intervening years that looked promising, but failed clinical trials. The short answer is that as of now, the costs to bring a pharma drug to market are outrageous and these companies have to have some hope of recouping their investment or their will be no new drugs. The question becomes, how much is too much? I sure as hell don't know the answer, but I do know that the system discriminates and by a lot of measures is broken. I am not smart enough to come up with an answer.

I typically stay off politics and religion (since in many places is the same), but ACA was supposed to ensure that I, as an employer, provided decent healthcare to my employees. No biggie, we have to do that anyway to attract and retain good talent. The part that was not mentioned is how much more we had to pay due to insurance increases resulting from ACA. That sucked.

Tell me about it. The last three years renewals for the small company that, until April, I helped run were in the 40% range, then 35%, then 27% for 2015. In three years, the health insurance premiums went up 240%. We shifted some burden to the employees, but that is still one heckuva lot of money that we had to eat. At best, we were getting 2-4% price increases from our customers. With a business with 70% of the cost structure is people, increases like this are crippling. And the reporting / compliance issues that are buried in the ACA are even worse. IMO, the ACA would be better known as the ASBA (Anti Small Business Act).


For example "Izzy, we have reduced the time dramatically from the time you enter the ER to the time we get you to a room" Me "but does the time to actually see a doctor and get treatment got better?" them "well, no, that was not our goal, why do you ask?" Nuff said.

I believe it. When we went to the ER last August for Jennifer's shattered wrist (which ended up requiring a plate, a pin, and 5 screws), we were shown to a room within 15 minutes. The next 4 hours were spent grilling me since Jennifer was in so much pain she could not talk. 3 hours into it, she got two Tylenol. At 4 hours, they x-rayed the wrist and the pressure on me subsided since they could tell that I had not inflicted the wound (good thing I was not carrying that day). At 5 hours we finally saw a doc and she was given some pain meds ...

The lady in the room next to us who had a rash and basically needed a benadryl (in the fawking ER) got better treatment than we did ...

In short, the treatment in the Er was no better than I could have provided if I had had my kit with a SAM splint in the RV. But it cost right at $8K for 7 hours of time, of which 2 hours was actual treatment (being generous in my time recollection).

Now the insurance company won't pay $51.29 of the bills even though they admit that Jennifer had met her out of pocket and OrthoCarolina is sending some pretty ugly nastigrams over such a small amount. We are taking the attitude of "eff em". The insurance company will not let us handle it saying that OC needs to call them and OC tells us that the insurance company will not return phone calls. I dare those fawkers to come collect ....

I am climbing down offa the soapbox and working to reduce my blood pressure ....

;)
 
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they will turn it n to the credit bureau and after it dings your credit there, they will sell it and the process starts all over again.
Just pay it now, then fight it.
 
At 4 hours, they x-rayed the wrist and the pressure on me subsided since they could tell that I had not inflicted the wound (good thing I was not carrying that day).

I hear ya, Sam. Try taking in a female that lost consciousness with a head gash, or has an axe wound! None of them ever asked me if I was being abused when I went in with chest pain; that could easily have been poison. ERA my ass. But that's beside the point of the OP.
 
8K for emergency room that probably has to take in "free" non-covered or non paying people?

Add an EKG, full heart work up, doctor visit and also about the same time in total and guess the total cost of visiting a non-"free ER"- hospital ER?





We had an emergency on vacation to my inlaws while in Wichita KS where my wife's heart rate dropped REALLY low and blood pressure was REALLY low. We were not familiar with hospitals covered by our insurance, but had to go close by to Galichia hospital.

Galichia is a private hospital and does NOT accept non-insured or non-paying people, and quote prices up front for services as possible. We found out later that is is thought of as one of the better hospitals in Wichita.



Our insurance covered very little, but guess the total bill?




Hint - - later I was listening to a program on local to KC public radio that stated that something like 45% or more of a hospital's costs are attributed to uninsured and non-paying people who use the ER and can not be turned away.
 
Our friend Bill went to a local hospital with no insurance etc. He got the bills a couple weeks later, pushing $15K Well it turns out that a guy he plays golf with works in the accounting dept of the hospital. He tells the guy his story and that he does not have that kind of money. The guy told him to come to the hospital and tell the folks there that he can not afford to pay this bill, they took his info etc and he went on his was. The guy told him that when he got the next invoice to take it back to the hospital, tell them you can not pay this and never would be able to pay. They classified him as indigent and forgave his bill. Turns out that the hospital carries an insurance policy that covers indigent customerss that can not pay.

We all know who pays for the insurance, seems John made a $198.00 payment to the recently. Or at least they billed him for it. As I stated in an above post, there are simply too many entities pulling money from the same source, sick people. We all know that it takes money to make money, R&D is expensive and so on. But gouging is a totally different thing. Drs generally make good money, as they should because most come out of school with crippling debt and then pay unholy insurance for malpractice etc. Has much to do with the fact that fewer and fewer people go into medicine.

I personally am not counting on any kind of serious health care system coming together in this country before I die. I feel bad for younger folks with kids, I don't know how you do it. I have pretty much paid for medical and dental care out of pocket all my life. So far all we have gotten from Obamacare is a bunch of monthly payments and a big hassle using emergency care for Heather that continues on to date. Screw the Feds, let them come and get me. We are pretty much done with Obamacare. Thanks for nothing.
 
Our friend Bill went to a local hospital with no insurance etc. He got the bills a couple weeks later, pushing $15K Well it turns out that a guy he plays golf with works in the accounting dept of the hospital. He tells the guy his story and that he does not have that kind of money. The guy told him to come to the hospital and tell the folks there that he can not afford to pay this bill, they took his info etc and he went on his was. The guy told him that when he got the next invoice to take it back to the hospital, tell them you can not pay this and never would be able to pay. They classified him as indigent and forgave his bill. Turns out that the hospital carries an insurance policy that covers indigent customerss that can not pay.

We all know who pays for the insurance, seems John made a $198.00 payment to the recently. Or at least they billed him for it. As I stated in an above post, there are simply too many entities pulling money from the same source, sick people. We all know that it takes money to make money, R&D is expensive and so on. But gouging is a totally different thing. Drs generally make good money, as they should because most come out of school with crippling debt and then pay unholy insurance for malpractice etc. Has much to do with the fact that fewer and fewer people go into medicine.

I personally am not counting on any kind of serious health care system coming together in this country before I die. I feel bad for younger folks with kids, I don't know how you do it. I have pretty much paid for medical and dental care out of pocket all my life. So far all we have gotten from Obamacare is a bunch of monthly payments and a big hassle using emergency care for Heather that continues on to date. Screw the Feds, let them come and get me. We are pretty much done with Obamacare. Thanks for nothing.

I've heard many stories of people that 'can't pay' just talk with the hospital for a greatly reduced payment settlement. This is what I was talking about what would happen if everyone just paid what they could. Then everyone would pay at least something, we wouldn't have people that just pay nothing and then the rest have to pick up the slack. The hospital also couldn't bill the insurance company for some made up number that the hospital knows they will pay.

But your outlook does have an issue currently. The Feds will come get you, at least your credit rating and any tax returns you may be entitled to, until your debts are paid. They can do that. You have a tough road if you just say 'screw it'
 
My choice is said tough road or continue to pay for a service I do not get. I'll take the tough road. I like fighting government and it is actually much easier now than it was 30 years ago. Let them come and get me, what's a tax return? We file but a tax return is rare. Helps if you don't pay up front :) The feds don't scare me in the least. If we all stand in line and do what they say then nothing changes. I'll fight my own battles personally and if a group is going in the right direction I will lend them my support as well. But I'll be damned if I will pay for forced medical insurance that is useless when required. I can document my experience, think our current supreme court would force a citizen to pay for a product he/she can not use? I'm willing to find out and I doubt I would have any trouble finding a good mouth piece to take it on pro bono

I am old and passed cynical years ago

I like your idea, makes far too much sense for the government to adopt.
 
The price for my wife's EKG etc was about $1500 for an emergency room visit.
 
But your outlook does have an issue currently. The Feds will come get you, at least your credit rating and any tax returns you may be entitled to, until your debts are paid. They can do that. You have a tough road if you just say 'screw it'

Actually, no. The ACA in its current form sets the IRS as the collection agent of penalties for not getting adequate coverage but it also exempts the collection of these penalties from the sections of the IRS code that give the agency the ability to do things like garnish wages, place liens, confiscate property. In essence, their only means of collection is if you are due a tax refund, they can withhold from that.

But I am sure that will change at some point in the future ...
 
think our current supreme court would force a citizen to pay for a product he/she can not use? .

Based upon recent decisions over the last 18 months, yup. :(
 
I have had 2 children with 0 insurance... We did not plan the first, therefore did not have "maternity" care within our insurance. So, learned a lot from that first birth. Paid for all doctor stuff up front. We had a very successful birth with no other issues / needs / extra anything while we were in the hospital. We wanted to get in and get out. They charged me $1200 for my newborn child to stay 1 night in the hospital. He did not leave the bed where my wife was. He was checked over by our Pedi that we paid for. We paid a completely different charge for my wife's labor. The $1200 was for my newborn son staying there. The bill was in his name. That was a complete shock. 2nd birth was a home birth that was completely life changing, but thats a whole other ball of wax, but it was largely due to our negative experience with the 1st birth in regards to the hospital, the employees in the hospital, etc...

Feels like a lot of people in health care arent there because they want to help people. They are there because it pays the bills.
 
Feels like a lot of people in health care arent there because they want to help people. They are there because it pays the bills.
It's no longer a noble, respectful job in the eyes of the masses like it used to be. I wonder what could have soured people on that? ;) Still plenty of good people out there and those good ones will quickly fade. Our medical field might turn all the way into a training ground for emerging foreign nations.
 
Lawyers! They messed it all up with all the lawsuits, now docs and nurses can't touch you without signing a million sheets of paper. I say we tar and feather them all, run them into Canada and fook that sheet up.

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