Now THAT'S seized!--HELP!

[landcruiserdude]

Jman,

The generic rebuilt unit should contain the extension hose and 90 degree pipe elbow and instructions on how to hook it up. It's kind of a cheap workaround, but it should work. The problem I had was using OEM Toyota belts. I couldn't get the smog pump belt to tension enough, because the cardone smog pump hose elbow sticking out the side interfered with the powersteering gearbox, not allowing any more tensioning. If you have the same problem as I did, you could probably use a shorter belt to solve the problem.

 

[jeffroid]

I mentioned above that I have used cheap aftermarket pumps. Once, or maybe even twice, the pump that arrived at the parts store (Schucks, in this case) was as described in another post here with the extension hose and elbow adaptor, etc. It looked like it might have worked, but I didn't like it. I simply showed the friendly guy behind the parts counter the difference. He didn't know what to do so he just tried re-ordering it, and low and behold the correct pump arrived, even though the two different versions had the same part number. I seem to remember him saying something about one being a Cardone, or whatever, but I don't remember which one was which.

 

[Jman]

[quote author=jeffroid link=board=1;threadid=16120;start=msg154361#msg154361 date=1084285960]
Looks like you got plenty of good advice, but no one mentioned that you can remove the air conditioner compressor belt and use it to run the water pump and alternator to get home, using the alternator to tension it, of course. You don't have power steering, but you can drive it like that for a while. I have had to do that a couple of times. The reason is that I use cheap aftermarket pumps from Shucks/Checker/Krager, etc. They don't last as long, but they are lifetime guaranteed, as long as you are not filling them full of oil from excessive blowby past your piston rings. Check and see if your air cleaner is full of oil.
[/quote]

I had some time tonight, so I put some chalk on each belt/pulley, bumped the starter, and sure enough, the smog pump belt didn't budge.

I took out ALL the belts, put the AC belt on the crank/alt/water pump, and started it up--WHOA! Sounded much better with just that one belt! No air pump/PS pump/AC pulley noise, much quieter.

Just when I was cursing those Toyota engineers for putting the water pump and smog pump on the same belt, along come this elegant solution.

Anyway, this will buy me some time to do the job right.



And, just for the heck of it, another question: I assume when I remove the smog pump, I have to take out the PS pump as well?

 

[landcruiserdude]

Jman,

I managed to remove/replace my smog pump last week by leaving the power steering pump in place. I did have to remove the hard line coming out of the back of it temporarily to create enough clearance to remove/put in place the smog pump. I also removed all the smog pump hoses, to get sufficient clearance to work. I also loosend the bracket on the fender which holds the ABV and other stuff, to get enough clearance. I figured it was easier doing it that way, than dealing with removing/replacing the power steering pump. Anyway, it took me about 3 hours to do the job. I probably could have done it faster, but I was interrupted several times.

 

[dd113]

I have had OK luck with NAPA pumps. As the previous post mentioned take it apart and check it out. Most work well for a long while. You need to look at why the pump went out. Either blow by gasses or PS pump leaking onto it. Usually the PS pump. Good remans from NAPA.

 

[jeffroid]

In regards to the question about removing the power steering pump, I've done the job more times that I would have cared to, and I never had to remove the PS pump or any of the ABV stuff. I do remember that I lowered the air pump (minus the hoses) down and fished it out between the exhaust pipe and the frame somehow, but I don't recall now exactly which route I took - whether it was straight down or back by the firewall. I then of course snaked the new one in the same way the old one came out. Don't mess with the PS pump. You either have to leak PS fluid all over the place or remove that bolt that is right next to the exhaust manifold, which is actually humanly impossible to do.

 

[rightlane]

i agree, don't touch the ps pump, i just fished mine out and up in front of the ps pump. it takes a couple of rotations of the smog pump but it will fit. it did take me about 30 min to get the lower bracket bolt back into the new pump. i ended up loosening the shroud to get more space to work with.

 

[Jman]

Okay, no touchy the PS pump! Whew! I was afraid I was going to have to move it, what a relief!!!

I love you guys! (Woody, we need a hug smiley here.)

 

[Jman]

Note to those who want to try this at home: running with one belt means no power steering; trying to parallel park an FJ60 with armstrong steering is, uh, interesting.

 

[lowtideride]

get some 37s then try it with no power steering

 

[Jman]

UPDATE: I just finished putting in the new (reconditioned) NAPA pump. It was indistinguishable from the OEM unit. Total time was 3 hours. I fired it up with the hose off to make sure it was pumping, and at idle there was a fairly strong airflow. We'll see how it all lasts.

Here are some tips:

1. Remove the fresh air intake duct for the air cleaner as well as any other hoses in the way.

2. Remove air hoses connected to pump.

3. Remove belt, then remove the smog pump pulley to allow you to sneak the pump out from its location (I was able to bring it forward and up to take it out).

4. Do not use a NAPA belt--as I found out, it is just a little smaller than OEM, and I could just not get it on, even after 20 minutes; I finally found an OEM belt in my basement, put that on in two minutes (all this wasted time included in 3 hour time period).

 

[airdog]

Now THAT'S seized!--HELP! -- Trouble removing hoses

i've just had a similar seize with my pump and am having some trouble getting the hose out of my old pump. the seem to be locked on pretty tight even when clamp is squeezed. problem is worsened by lack of room to maneuver. i'm almost tempted to just cut the damn things and buy new ones.

any tips on loosening hoses (heat maybe?) or clearing more space to maneuver?

 

[Jman]

The "input" hose came off okay, but the "output" hose was melted on--the heat on that side of the engine over the years made it a "custom fit." I tried cutting, nothing I had would go through the hose, so eventually I took a huge screwdriver and pounded on the end that's not connected to the air pump to break the grip--it budged a few millimeters, and after that I was able to muscle it off.

I couldn't get the hose back on, either, so the guy at Poop Boys found a radiator hose that was sort of the same dimensions, so I cut that to length and used that.

Oh, and dtich those lousy clamps and get the screw-on type--they're easier to work with, and you can tighten the piss out of them.

 

[swank60]

your mentioning the melted hose on the line out made me think of something - Have you checked your check valve on the air rail? That could be the whole thing, right there. The engine, I don't think, gets all that hot right there - how is the hose that goes from the check valve to the ABV, or the hose that goes from the ABV to the long metal hose that goes into the exhaust pipe? There's a check valve there, too.

Check valves, when they go bad, are pretty bad news.

I love this stupid smog stuff.

 

[Jman]

Good call!

But yeah, that was the FIRST thing I fixed on the Cruiser when I bought it. That sucker has messed things up on that side pretty good--melted hoses, fried insulation on the wiring, fouled ABV, cracked the plastic for the side marker light, etc. The p.o. had probably been running it that way for months. Stunk, lousy mileage, ran rich. It took me five minutes to figure out something was wrong.

 

[swank60]

Sounds like you may have had close to the same issue I did...check and make sure it goes together right when you put in the new pump - go by the book, not the way it was...on mine, the PO's mechanic, and later the DEALERSHIP IN MEMPHIS that changed my locked smog pump at reversed the hoses that went into/out of the smog pump. Really bad news. It's getting better now that I've fixed that, but that's what made me think of the check valve...

Again, I love POs...

How's it doing, by the way?

 

[Jman]

Air output goes into ABV, as in this picture (I love SOR's website):

By the way, I check out the price on SOR website for used ABV--$717.03!!!! Hawr hawr, I got a working used one for $40.00.

Wow, SOR prices have gone insane.

Anyway, it's running smooth and quiet, and my idle dropped about 100 rpm (from 750 to 650) without me doing anything in addition.

I'm going to open the old unit tonight and see what went wrong.

P.S. How can the dealermonkeys mess that up? The hoses are different diameters? That takes real skill, I tell ya!

 

[Skilter]

REplace it with a new one from Toyota. I have had reman's and other brands fail on me twice. If I would have gone with a new Toyota pump from the start, I would have saved money and down time in the long run.

 

[nuclearlemon]

so the squeal noise from the sp...is it always there before it pukes? i know my ps pump leaks out the front seal, but i routinely wash the motor to keep everything clean and i've recently put lucas in to hopefully slow the leaking. this last winter, it squels obnoxiously when it's cold out. it didn't squeal the year before, but then it was garaged then and now it's been kicked out into the cold by yet another v8j40 project. i'm pretty sure it's the ps pump, but i'd like to positively be able to rule out the sp. the squealing goes away as the motor gets warm and it seems like steering does affect the noise.

 

[Jman]

so the squeal noise from the sp...is it always there before it pukes? i know my ps pump leaks out the front seal, but i routinely wash the motor to keep everything clean and i've recently put lucas in to hopefully slow the leaking. this last winter, it squels obnoxiously when it's cold out. it didn't squeal the year before, but then it was garaged then and now it's been kicked out into the cold by yet another v8j40 project. i'm pretty sure it's the ps pump, but i'd like to positively be able to rule out the sp. the squealing goes away as the motor gets warm and it seems like steering does affect the noise.

The "squeal" I was referring to actually was the belt burning on the seized pump--so for me, no, no warning. Just fired it up one morning and got the banshees under the hood and thick clouds of burnt rubber smoke, like I was spinning the tires (yeah, like I could do that in my 60 ).

If it's squealing when it's cold, I'd say it's your PS pump--mine did that in the mornings, never did find out what was causing it, but it went away after I replaced the fluid the p.o. had in there. (Make sure you use Dexron ATF fluid, not PS fluid.)

Of course, until you're sure and you get it fixed, keep an AC belt so that you can do the alt/WP "limp around" method if your smog pump seizes (actually, I ran like that for two months, no problem).



And HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone.

(Gee, nothing like reviving old threads. I may be slow to get things done, but I did manage to replace the smog pump in the past six months. )