1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Now THAT'S seized!--HELP!

Discussion in '60-Series Wagons' started by Jman, May 10, 2004.

  1. Jman

    Jman

    Messages:
    1,548
    Likes Received:
    175
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2003
    Location:
    If ya don't know, I ain't tellin'
    I went to use the FJ60 to run an errand--LOUD SQUEALING, AFTER 30 SECS, LOTS OF SMOKE! It was dark out, and I didn't have time to poke around much, but from what I can tell, something seized super-bad--bad enough that one of the belts was smoking on the crank pulley when I shut it off. Everything worked fine this morning. :mad:

    Anyway, my questions are:

    1. I assume this is the smog pump--there was a squeal coming from that side when I started it up, then the belt squeal/smoke came later. I had AC tensioner and belts done last summer, and I've never had an alt seize up that bad, so smog is my guess. Anyone disagree? (I'll check tomorrow in the daylight anyway).

    2. What's the "limp home" fix? This is an 87 FJ60 w/ AC, it has three belts. Is there a belt I use to bypass the smog pump? (I did see something like this in another post--50"x17mm--but it mentioned driving water pump and alt., which seems impossible for my engine). So, if there is a bypass, how difficult is this quick fix?

    3. If I just cut the belt, how long do you think I could run it before getting into trouble? I need to move the truck from one side of the street to another--do you think I could run it for 1-2 minutes without a water pump? That would allow me to avoid getting a ticket until I had time to fix it on Saturday.

    4. I don't want to choke on the price for an OEM smog pump--is there an aftermarket (NAPA) air pump that works?

    Thanks for your help and patience. I tried the search function on this, got some answers, but nowhere near enough.
     
  2. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

    Messages:
    20,240
    Media:
    17
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    538
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2003
    Location:
    MN
    You should not have any problem running the engine for a few minutes to move it without having the water pump operating.

    Good luck!

    -Steve
     
  3. MrZero

    MrZero

    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    SOR will rebuild your old one. Can't remember the price off the top, but it's still pricey. DOn't know about aftermarket. I have a thread not too old here about the very same thing. Only after my SP went, I ended up with a rebuilt head. I decided to plunk down the dough for a brand new OEM smog pump rather than ever worry about this happening again or at an inopportune time.

    BTW, check your Power Steering pump for leaks. The idea that the PS will leak into the SP and cause it to seize after some time has been thrown up here. Might be true, I dunno, but I can say that my PS had been leaking pretty badly for about 3-4 months before my SP went.

    --ZERO
     
  4. lowtideride

    lowtideride

    Messages:
    7,606
    Media:
    12
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    79
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Location:
    The Sunshine State
    cant ya just run the rig with out the air pump? by pass it or just get new bearings put in(so you can use it to tighten the belt). if ya dont have emissions???
     
  5. Cruiserdrew

    Cruiserdrew SILVER Star

    Messages:
    14,718
    Likes Received:
    3,238
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2003
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    I put a NAPA rebuilt airpump on my FJ40. For the last 2 years, it's worked just fine. I doubt it will last 180k like the first one, but then it only cost $75. At that price, I can replace it every 4 years. OEM is close to $500 :eek:
     
  6. swank60

    swank60

    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    231
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2002
    Location:
    One of Four Presidential Flying Saucers
    if you need to limp it anywhere, you can use panty hose as a belt to bypass the smog pump and run your water pump...and if it is the smog pump, congrats and welcome to the higer levels of 60 ownership.

    If you bypass it altogether, you'll see a drop in your milage (well, since I got mine working, I seem to be getting better milage) - and it forces air into your exhaust ports...so you'll run rich, clog your cat with carbon, plug your plugs with carbon, carbon all over the head/combustion chamber, you'll have to change oil all the time - that carbon will wind up there too...unless you go with a webber carb and can bypass all of the dynamic/vac adjustments your truck makes while running/driving. It relies on the air pump for the air injection system which pretty much is figured for at the carb and the dizzy. Basically, you'd have to desmog the whole thing, not just the one part.

    Also, if you ever want to pass an emissions test, without the air pump, you're not going to do it.
     
  7. jwest

    jwest

    Messages:
    688
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    Should be easy enough to do an on site field repair assuming it is a siezed air pump. Buy a new belt and pump, take some tools.
    If you cut the belt and drive, you also disconnect the water pump, so that's your call.

    Napa 51768 $88.99 + 20. core.
    AutoZone 33768 (cardone) $70.99 + 20. core.
     
  8. fsusteve

    fsusteve

    Messages:
    3,802
    Media:
    18
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    49
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2003
    Location:
    Naples/Big Pine Key, Fl
    Jason, a friend of mine had an 87 also but the clutch on his a/c froze up. Don't know if maybe there were issues with that year or not. I do know the smog pumps are pretty common.
     
  9. landcruiserdude

    landcruiserdude

    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Jman,

    I just pulled a working aftermarket smog pump of my 83 FJ60. I was about 5 years old, and was still working fine. It's a cardone brand. I was planning on selling it for $20 plus shipping from 75057, if you're interested.

    Landcruiserdude
     
  10. jjbodean1970

    jjbodean1970

    Messages:
    1,218
    Likes Received:
    22
    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Location:
    Morgantown, WV
  11. jeffroid

    jeffroid

    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2004
    Looks like you got plenty of good advice, but no one mentioned that you can remove the air conditioner compressor belt and use it to run the water pump and alternator to get home, using the alternator to tension it, of course. You don't have power steering, but you can drive it like that for a while. I have had to do that a couple of times. The reason is that I use cheap aftermarket pumps from Shucks/Checker/Krager, etc. They don't last as long, but they are lifetime guaranteed, as long as you are not filling them full of oil from excessive blowby past your piston rings. Check and see if your air cleaner is full of oil.
     
  12. e rock

    e rock

    Messages:
    1,608
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Location:
    Monroe, WA
    JMan -
    Where are you located? I don't mean to highjack LCdude's sales pitch, but I've got one I'll sell cheap - I'm in the Seattle area. It came with a motor I bought, and seems to work fine although I've never used it.

    Eric
     
  13. fsusteve

    fsusteve

    Messages:
    3,802
    Media:
    18
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    49
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2003
    Location:
    Naples/Big Pine Key, Fl
    [quote author=e rock link=board=1;threadid=16120;start=msg154373#msg154373 date=1084286449]
    JMan -
    Where are you located? I don't mean to highjack LCdude's sales pitch, but I've got one I'll sell cheap - I'm in the Seattle area. It came with a motor I bought, and seems to work fine although I've never used it.

    Eric
    [/quote]

    He's in NYC area.
     
  14. Jman

    Jman

    Messages:
    1,548
    Likes Received:
    175
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2003
    Location:
    If ya don't know, I ain't tellin'
    Okay, just spoke to NAPA, they can get pump by Thursday (thanks jwest), and they're within "biking distance" which is a plus. I can get a pump and a belt for under $120 and probably get the beast running again in a couple hours. ::)

    It'll have to wait until Sat. morning, so I'll limp around the neighborhood with no belt until then.

    Jeffroid--thanks for the tip on the AC belt, luckily I won't have to go that route this time, but it's good to know.

    Thanks to all those who stepped up finding replacement pumps--if this were not my DD, I'd take you up on it. Anyway, a truly great group of guys on this board.

    Once I get my OEM off, I might see if there's a way to rebuild it just in case my NAPA pump craps out in a few years. Anyone know if this can be done?
     
  15. 60wag

    60wag SILVER Star

    Messages:
    1,923
    Likes Received:
    37
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2003
    Location:
    Boulder, CO
    I've never seen a new smog pump first hand but I've been through several "rebuilts" on several trucks. They might replace the bearings and the carbon seals when rebuilt, but I doubt the phenolic paddles are replaced with new ones. This is probably why the pump output barely meets the Toyota spec for testing an air pump. If you have to get an $79 Cardone rebuilt, I now disassemble the thing when I get it home. If it looks really bad inside, or parts are missing ( I got one with 2 of the 3 paddles once) take it back to exchange for another. I use a high quality, high temp roller bearing grease and make sure all the bearings are properly lubed, and check the main shaft for burrs and gouges from old failed bearings. Take you time putting it back together and make sure all the bolts are tight. I've had good luck since I started doing this. Also don't turn in the old seized pump until you've been able to inspect the replacement. You might need to swap some parts - like the hose elbows. Sometimes you get these unversal elbows that point in the wrong direction. Sometimes the phenolic vanes in you old pump are better than the replacement - just make sure the little roller bearings are in good shape.
     
  16. Jman

    Jman

    Messages:
    1,548
    Likes Received:
    175
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2003
    Location:
    If ya don't know, I ain't tellin'
    [quote author=60wag link=board=1;threadid=16120;start=msg154448#msg154448 date=1084291294]Also don't turn in the old seized pump until you've been able to inspect the replacement. You might need to swap some parts - like the hose elbows. Sometimes you get these unversal elbows that point in the wrong direction. Sometimes the phenolic vanes in you old pump are better than the replacement - just make sure the little roller bearings are in good shape.
    [/quote]

    No one gets my old parts! I'll pay the NAPA core charge and keep my OEM in my "dead parts graveyard" in the basement until I get a rainy weekend to open it up. :D
     
  17. landcruiserdude

    landcruiserdude

    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Jman

    The PO who installed the cardone air pump that I just took off my FJ60 tossed the original smog pump. I would have tried to rebuild it and put it back on myself, because the original smog pump hose routing is much better than the cardone. The reason I bit the bullet and bought a new OEM smog pump to put back on my FJ60 was that I was unsatisfied with the cardone hose routing. I couldn't even adjust the belt tension properly with the cardone, because the hose routing hit the steering gear box. I could have bought a shorter belt, but I figured I neede to go back to OEM anyway.

    I beat my dealer down on the price quite a bit, otherwise, I would have bought a used pump from SOR or Cruiserparts.net. I bet Toyota sells bearings and seals to rebuild if you check with your local dealer.
     
  18. Beanie

    Beanie

    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 13, 2003
    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    Wow this sounds familiar, mine did the same thing on Thanksgiving. I pulled the pump and emptied it, the main bearings were fine, so it wasn't a big deal, it still looks like it's there, just doesn't do anything. I haven't had to have it smogged (until this month) so I don't know if it'll pass, but I don't think it'll be a problem.
     
  19. Jman

    Jman

    Messages:
    1,548
    Likes Received:
    175
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2003
    Location:
    If ya don't know, I ain't tellin'
    Anyone know if I'll need new hoses, brackets, or other hardware for the NAPA pump, or is it a bolt-in job?

    I am SOOOOOOOO glad this happened right in front of my house. :)
     
  20. rightlane

    rightlane

    Messages:
    528
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Location:
    peoria, az
    if you're not in big hurry, or you'd like to rebuild you're bad pump, checker and napa sell an alternator for an 85 '60 with a dual pully. just swap pulleys with your alt. and return the new one. a small spacer will push the alt back to realign the pulleys and that will drive your water pump. i just went through this and didn't see a big performance drop. it will give you plenty of time to figure out your seized sp. you will need to measure for new belts but once you reinstall your sp you will have a backup system if it ever seizes again.