No oil to head in 73 FJ40 - F Engine

[MuskieFJ]

I'm a first timer and need help! I recently rebuilt a 73 FJ40 and do not have oil to the head/rocker assembly. I've replaced the rod bearings and rings, otherwise just seals and gaskets. I did not replace the main bearings and the odometer states (1)12,000 miles. I have oil going to the filter and when I removed the oil pump it worked turning with a screw driver. Without pulling the pan, for the forth time, where could I have problems? Please Help save an original!

 

[rjcruiser]

Is the dizzy seated all the way down? I believe your model f has the oil coming up through the head in the copper tube, the distributor turns the oil pump and it must be seated all the way down to turn. Check out this link for pics of the copper tube and rocker assembly.

will a 74.5 head fit on an 8/73 block? - IH8MUD.com Forum

Good luck with it. If it is oiling properly, there should be some oil weeping out of the little holes on the top edge of the rockers.

 

[MuskieFJ]

rjcruiser, thanks for the response. Please excuse my ignorance but is the dizzie the shaft from the distributor which drives the oil pump? As I turn the oil pump with a screw driver through the distributor hole, I can feel it pumping oil. I have oil to the oil filter, but not above and can't tell if the crank or carm are getting oil...

 

[IDave]

Yes, the dizzy is the distributor. When you have the engine stopped, and you are driving the oil pump by hand, it can take a while to get the oil up to the rockers. Also, since the oil goes through the camshaft via a passage to the oil tube, the camshaft must be aligned properly or there won't be oil flow regardless of whether or not you have things reassembled correctly.

So, if you are trying to prep the engine and things aren't working, try rotating the crankshaft (and consequently the camshaft) a little to see if that helps.

I use a large screwdriver shaft on a drill to prime. I stick it down into the distributor hole to drive the oil pump and if all is correct, after a few minutes you will easily see the oil coming out of the rockers. Some folks, including me, prime for at least 10, sometimes 20 minutes before a fresh startup (depending on how confident you feel with your assembly lube).

Once you know things are hooked up all right, you can replace the distributor. That's where there's sometimes a problem. If the distributor shaft isn't all the way down it will not engage the oil pump and you'll have no oil pressure and quickly ruin your bearings.

 

[MuskieFJ]

Here is what I just received from SOR. Can anyone confirm this?

The oil that is being supplied to the head passes through one of the cam journals via a drilled hole. So oil is only pushed to the head 2 times every cam revolution. The amount of oil volume to the rocker assembly is low. With this low volume it take some time for the engine to fill the rocker shaft and have oil dripping out every rocker.

 

[Pighead]

I'm not real familiar with the oiling on an early F...But, aren't there oiling holes in the bearings and journals of the crank and cam? And oil can move through these passages when the hoes line up? So maybe you have to spin the crank and the oil pump at the same time to get oil up to the cam?
You can prime the pump and fill the filter with just spinning the oil pump, but to oil the rest of the engine I think you have to use the starter motor. At least that's how I did it. Plugs out, coil wire off, valve cover off, plenty of reliable 12 volt. Just spin it until you see oil dripping off your rocker arms. And your oil pressure gauge says something.




Edit: I gotta learn to type faster.

 

[MuskieFJ]

Special thanks to "IDave" and "PIGHEAD" for your suggestions!

I will try these ideas tonight to see if they work. Thanks

 

[splitshot]

Also, it is real easy to pinch off the copper tube when you install the head. I speak from experiance

 

[cruiserbrett]

my guess is that the headgasket doesnt have the hole to allow oil to pass. there is a specfic headgasket for late F motors with out the copper tube. What gasket set did you use? Some manufacturers dont delineate a break about late '73-74 for the F models(whenever the oil filter moved to forward of the distributor), but there is a difference in the headgasket.

the other option relates to cam oiling hole location. earlier F motors had a different cam bearing journal drilled for oil passage than did the later F/2F motors.

both of these would cause your issues and I speak from experience in both cases. if your headgasket is listed to fit back to 68ish you may have to pull the head. If you didnt swap the cam, dont worry about it.

 

[IDave]

Just saying you can definitely get the oil up to the rockers with a drill.

New replacement OEM camshafts have holes drilled for both kinds of oiling (Muskie, I know from what you said you didn't change camshafts).

 

[MuskieFJ]

I replaced the head gasket, but the copper tube is still in tact. I removed the lifter rod cover and ran a wire through the tube to verify it was not plugged.

How long should it take to get oil to the head if running the engine via the starter and no fire or idling assuming the oil cavities are empty from the rebuild? I'm concerned with running the engine without oil for more than 30 seconds.

I'm trying to format my picture to make it fit. It is a 73 with a 76 top with ambulance doors.

 

[IDave]

I would have the same concern about running the engine, even from the starter, if you weren't sure about your oil. So, I wouldn't do it, and I don't know the answer!

I'd give it up to 4 minutes with an electric drill!

 

[Degnol]

I don't often disagree with Dave, but if you can verify oil pressure with the drill, that means you've filled the main oil galley, so the only place that might not get oil right away is the rocker assembly. I don't think that is a big deal. Pour some oil over the rockers and start it up with the valve cover off and very soon you should see oil dripping.

Just my .02

Ed

 

[IDave]

I see your point, but I can never see my oil pressure gauge when I'm standing next to the engine holding a drill, Ed.

Maybe I'm just a coward, but I assume the deep grooves I've seen in rocker arm shafts are due to underlubrication...

 

[Degnol]

I see your point, but I can never see my oil pressure gauge when I'm standing next to the engine holding a drill, Ed.

Maybe I'm just a coward, but I assume the deep grooves I've seen in rocker arm shafts are due to underlubrication...

If you weren't so damn mean, you might have a friend run the drill or watch the gauge
I slapped enough assembly lube on my rebuild to carry it for a couple of minutes cranking on the starter

Ed

 

[btbuild]

One thing that I did just to make sure I was getting good pressure at start up after rebuild was remove oil sender and install a actual pressure gauge. In the picture you can see I still have pressure gauge coming out from under. Very helpful and great piece of mind. My pressure stayed around 40 psi

 

[tahoe40/45]

I replaced the head gasket, but the copper tube is still in tact. I removed the lifter rod cover and ran a wire through the tube to verify it was not plugged.

How long should it take to get oil to the head if running the engine via the starter and no fire or idling assuming the oil cavities are empty from the rebuild? I'm concerned with running the engine without oil for more than 30 seconds.

I'm trying to format my picture to make it fit. It is a 73 with a 76 top with ambulance doors.

Pulling old thread out.
Did you ever find out why you weren't getting oil to the head?

Im having a similar problem right now. Went to adjust the valves on a 1960 F engine that had been rebuilt a few years ago. When i pulled the valve cover it was dry, only rebuild grease was present, there is only a couple hundred miles on the rebuild. I have no oil coming out of copper tube, tube moves around so doesn't feel pinched under the head. I pulled the distributer and spun the oil pump with a drill and felt it prime, i have oil at the filter.
Im going to pull the side cover this weekend to see if copper tube has any issues.

Is there anything else i should look for or try?

 

[Skreddy]

Pulling old thread out.
Did you ever find out why you weren't getting oil to the head?

Im having a similar problem right now. Went to adjust the valves on a 1960 F engine that had been rebuilt a few years ago. When i pulled the valve cover it was dry, only rebuild grease was present, there is only a couple hundred miles on the rebuild. I have no oil coming out of copper tube, tube moves around so doesn't feel pinched under the head. I pulled the distributer and spun the oil pump with a drill and felt it prime, i have oil at the filter.
Im going to pull the side cover this weekend to see if copper tube has any issues.

Is there anything else i should look for or try?

Did the engine rebuild include a new cam? There’s been posts lately where new cams were used and they weren’t drilled for the oil passage in the right spot for an F engine (oil hole moved journals with 2F I think).

 

[tahoe40/45]

Did the engine rebuild include a new cam? There’s been posts lately where new cams were used and they weren’t drilled for the oil passage in the right spot for an F engine (oil hole moved journals with 2F I think).

No looks like the cam had a regrind. Im assuming that means the original cam was resurfaced?

 

[Steamer]

"THIS" might help.