No Doors... Legal issue question

[rustygreenmachine]

Hello All,

Background:
So I want to run my FJ40 without doors during the summer the issue is, here In British Columbia the law states that if the vehicle was equipped with doors they must be installed. Operating without doors is around a $100 fine......

As it stands the only vehicles allowed to operate without doors are CJ Heeps pre '86 the reason for this is they could be ordered without doors and Jeep no longer has the records as to which had and which did not have doors so now all pre-86 CJ's may operate without doors heres an article on the CJ http://bb.bc4x4.com/showthread.php?t=24460&highlight=doors&page=5


Info Needed:
What I'm after is, where FJ40's ever sold without doors or did they all come with some form of door? does anyone have any documents to back this up? and does anyone here in Canada have any solid info as to if doors where ever an option.

What I've done so far:

I have contacted Toyota regarding this, they do not keep records for more then 10 to 20 years.... the fellow I spoke to did not believe they ever would have sold them in Canada without doors due to climate.... but he did not have any solid info other then his opinion. He did state that they would have the info in there archives but it would be expensive for them to dig through them and at this time they where not willing to do so.

I also contacted the vehicle inspectors/regulators and spoke with a fellow, he stated if evidence from Toyota or official Toyota info could be produced that stated doors where an option as on the CJ then they would amend the current Bulletin to include FJ40's as not requiring doors.

Thanks
graham

 

[Dieseler]

You will not find anything backing a Cruiser sold in Canada without doors even the softtop models sold with doors,buy some half doors these are legal and are just as much a cool factor as no doors.

 

[hellbent40]

never had a problem yet on the island...

 

[marks69cruiser]

Gonna have to live with half doors my friend. Unless you guys have a specialty designation like "show", "vintage", "classic", etc way to license your vehicle.

 

[mano002]

I grew up in Powell River BC, and the Cops would give me fix-it slips all the time. They told me the door had to come up above my knee when seated. My mom worked in an insurance office, so she looked into it for me, and there was no mention of landcruisers aren't mentioned anywhere. Basically, the cops can give you a ticket, since it's against the law as its written, and you'd have to go to court to fight it. I also looked into the vintage plates, and it had to be bone stock, with a limited number of kms per year and you were only allowed to drive it once a week (or something along those lines).

 

[yotawheeler]

now, my question...do tube doors count as doors?

 

[craptabulous]

i drive in kamloops all the time with no doors and the cops never give me problems , they just wave me through road block etc .

 

[rustygreenmachine]

I've been driving around for the last 3 years with the doors off and so far no problems, just trying to do a bit of an ass cover as there are a couple of guys in town here that that cops have tagged for do doors.

As for Tube doors and half doors, yes they are doors but technically they still do not count as the Law states the original doors must be installed.... it also states the window must work....

oh but heres the kicker the windscreen can be folded down theres no law that says you must have a windscreen it just cannot be cracked and the whipers must work. There is also no law against taking the roof off....

 

[steverb]

Ive always drove around with my doors off but this year there craking down on it. but the cops said any door is fine as long as it looks like there's something there. whether is half full soft or hard.

 

[1911]

now, my question...do tube doors count as doors?

That was going to be my suggestion also.

But since most people think mine is a "jeep", why wouldn't cops also?

 

[joeyg1973]

Well you could desecrate the vehicle, remove the Toyota badges and then stick on some cheap reproduction Jeep stickers. A wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[yotawheeler]

haha, thats blasphemy!

well...i have gone into the local police detachment and asked, the officer on duty there didnt seem to think there was any problems with having the doors off on my fj40 she did however question my intelligence for wanting to drive down the highway without doors but....thats another matter. most of the time i dont think the cops will care...get one with something up their ass and they can give you trouble tho

 

[Plowboy]

Isn't there a strap that went from the cowl to the b pillar. Wouldn't that indicate that the vehicle was intended to be driven with the hard doors removed? From sor 115-01A SAFETY STRAP-
1958-1967(Discontinued-No longer available) 0.00 No
115-01B SAFETY STRAP-
1967-10/84 FJ40(Discontinued-No longer available)

 

[Degnol]

But you can ride a donorcycle without leathers?

Makes perfect sense to me.

Legislating personal safety has never made any sense to me.

 

[rustygreenmachine]

Legislating personal safety has never made any sense to me.

Thats what the polititions here like to do legislate personal safety....

As for the straps that doesnt matter... it doesnt matter to the law here if the door is designed to come off all they care about is could you buy the vehicle without doors.....

 

[Bill McC]

Ugly American

Jeepers. Ha, Ha.

Pretty tightly wound up there are they? Down here too.
Well, perhaps that is what socialism gets you. Sadly we too are going that way.

Bureaucrats will never cease to make silly regulations.

Sadly it seems the fashion in the USA, Canada, and the UK is "We're from the government and we will save you and we know best."

At least you can import newer used cars and trucks than us (US).

Of course we can buy rifles, shotguns, and handguns without too much hassle. Big hassle to bring a rifle up there however.


I will keep a lookout for a OEM door less FJ. Was the FJ fire truck ever imported to Canada? It doesn't have doors if I remember correctly.

Good luck. Best bet may be to get 1/2 doors. Besides, when does it warm up that much anyway? Maybe 2 hot July or August weeks in Manitoba?

 

[mixerman]

I just got pulled over for no doors onthe weekend. It's a $109.00 fine and if you get lippy he said he would tow me. The funny thing is my brother in law works at the rcmp training center where there is 3-4 hundred cops training there and drives his heep tj every day with no doors.

 

[rustygreenmachine]

Jeepers. Ha, Ha.

Pretty tightly wound up there are they? Down here too.
Well, perhaps that is what socialism gets you. Sadly we too are going that way.

Bureaucrats will never cease to make silly regulations.

Sadly it seems the fashion in the USA, Canada, and the UK is "We're from the government and we will save you and we know best."

At least you can import newer used cars and trucks than us (US).

Of course we can buy rifles, shotguns, and handguns without too much hassle. Big hassle to bring a rifle up there however.


I will keep a lookout for a OEM door less FJ. Was the FJ fire truck ever imported to Canada? It doesn't have doors if I remember correctly.

Good luck. Best bet may be to get 1/2 doors. Besides, when does it warm up that much anyway? Maybe 2 hot July or August weeks in Manitoba?

Well Look on the bright side your less socialist then we are....

as for the door thing, with the way the law is worded and what the fellow at inspection said I dont need to show if any where imported without the doors just that it was an option.... so an old sales slip that list the doors as an option might just do it.....

 

[rustygreenmachine]

I was just looking at some old adds for the FJ40 there US adds but they do list a roofless and doorless option.... any body out there have any FJ40 adds from canada still kicking around?

 

[Brian in Oregon]

Isn't there a strap that went from the cowl to the b pillar. Wouldn't that indicate that the vehicle was intended to be driven with the hard doors removed? From sor 115-01A SAFETY STRAP-
1958-1967(Discontinued-No longer available) 0.00 No
115-01B SAFETY STRAP-
1967-10/84 FJ40(Discontinued-No longer available)

Yes. And the clear intent was so the doors could be taken off. And if it can be shown that these parts were available, and that factory vehicles were made this way, that could be proof for a court. A good start would be copies of parts listings and photos of FJ40's equipped in this manner.

In Oregon, the issue is a bit different. We can remove doors only if there is a sill. This means doors can be removed on heeps and FJ40's. But not on early Broncos, because they have no sill (the exception is the fiberglass factory door insert, because this creats a sill.) The purpose is to keep objects on the floorboards from falling out of the cab.