Nitro upper control arms

[roma042987]

I desperately need to correct the positive camber on my 99 100 series. It has a bds 2-3 inch lift with old man emu shocks and a diff drop. It currently has positive camber which is wearing the outside edge of the tires. I want to correct the camber and install my new steering rack before I install my tires. I came across the nitro control arms here. http://www.justdifferentials.com/JTOUCA-TLC100-p/jtouca-tlc100-bj.htm
I like the idea that they use a factory ball joint and are serviceable. I also like the idea that they are not adjustable since the land cruiser is driven on rough washboard roads quiet often which could cause the adjustable ones to move to one setting or another. HOWEVER with the description on the site nowhere does it state whether they will correct the positive camber issue? Im ASSUMING the ball joint is position closer to the pivoting axis than a factory control arm just enough to achieve some negative camber but I would really like to confirm this before blowing 700 bucks. I have spoke to the sales guy on three occasions and he does not know and has been referring me to contact the owner whom I just emailed. I might add im also a bit uneasy about ordering from them because I have had a lot of trouble with there customer service in the past and parts being misrepresented. (pinion spacer nightmare).

 

[atomsk]

I've been getting fantastic service from Carl. He's usually very quick at responding to email.

They are a big addition to the LC community, and I'd happily give them my money at any time.

 

[roma042987]

My previous purchase from them left a horrible taste in my mouth that was documented here and I guess I'm kind of old fashioned but the saying you only have one chance to make a first impression comes to mind.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/anyone-used-a-solid-pinion-spacer-from-jts.749099/
This thread is not about there rep but a bout a particular item they are selling. So I'm not going to drag the other thread into this one.

 

[gxgonz]

Would love to know a comparison between Nitro and SPC that Slee offers. I am about to buy some UCA as well.

 

[roma042987]

no one running the nitro arms?

 

[paflytyer]

I have Nitro arms on the way. Nitro/Just Differentials are one of the most reliable companies in the off-road segment. I've dealt with them many times and have had nothing but positive experiences. Their willingness to be involved and attend so many events gives them the ability to meet people who are using their products and they are always available to answer questions.

A call to Carl directly will get you all the information you need.
509.293.4174

 

[Slickspawn]

I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them. That issue you mentioned above seems odd with the solid spacer not working. As an engineer with experience working on chassis, suspension and axle systems with 2 of the big 3 and 1 of the japanese big 3 I can say that there are so many changes to these parts that the model they may have used may not have been representative of the larger population.

Regardless, I went with SPC UCAs, only b/c of cost - they were on sale from a vendor recently for 30% off with free shipping, so I couldn't resist.

 

[roma042987]

I would love to hear some feed back once you get them installed. what size lift do you have on yours?

 

[hoser]

Roma, camber adjustment should not be a problem with 2" of lift, even with OE UCA's. The problem is usually getting enough caster. If you look at how the adjustment is made, it's a combination of moving both forward and rear cam to adjust camber and caster. I would imagine the alignment shop to prioritize camber over caster in making their adjustments. Did you align it after installing the lift? If so, what were the specs?

With the JT UCA's, I'd be curious to know how much additional caster is built into the arms.

 

[roma042987]

Roma, camber adjustment should not be a problem with 2" of lift, even with OE UCA's. The problem is usually getting enough caster. If you look at how the adjustment is made, it's a combination of moving both forward and rear cam to adjust camber and caster. I would imagine the alignment shop to prioritize camber over caster in making their adjustments. Did you align it after installing the lift? If so, what were the specs?

With the JT UCA's, I'd be curious to know how much additional caster is built into the arms.

I didn't install the lift it was on the rig when I purchased it. I haven't done an alignment yet because I know im going to have to do one when I install a new rack. do the factory control arms have cam bolts for camber adjustment?

 

[spressomon]

^ (hoser) to add: The caster adjustment when using OEM inner UCA bushings or spherical bearing aka rod end style ends for the inner "bushings" allow caster adjustment without scrape/bind. Whereas most if not all the aftermarket UCAs utilize a simple (relatively inexpensive) urethane bushing system (composed of two urethane "hat" style bushings and one inner steel crush sleeve/bushing) that is very intolerant of being out of parallel.

If, when using the typical aftermarket urethane bushing system, the caster plate adjustment needs to be adjusted so that the OEM side plates end up being out of parallel to the bushings themselves then you're going to get accelerated wear each time the front suspension moves/cycles.

When the caster adjustment causes the cam bolt to be positioned out of perpendicular to the fixed cam assembly plates then you end up with binding between the urethane bushings and the center crush sleeve/bushing. This will distort the urethane bushings ID...relative to the crush sleeve bushing. Although these aftermarket parts are relatively inexpensive...they can result in significant shortcomings (performance and longevity)...

Additionally, while a grease zirk seems like it would be a useful feature in reality there are no spiral grooves on the inner ID/bore of the urethane bushings I've used/seen that allow grease to migrate to effectively lube the mating surfaces. You will typically need to to either spray lube them (temporary fix) or completely disassemble the UCA inner bushings...and manually clean & lube the bushing pieces. And then, of course, another alignment is needed...

Summary: Ask lots of questions when you're in shopping mode guys so you don't end up with "2-steps forward and 3-steps back...".

 

[roma042987]

^ (hoser) to add: The caster adjustment when using OEM inner UCA bushings or spherical bearing aka rod end style ends for the inner "bushings" allow caster adjustment without scrape/bind. Whereas most if not all the aftermarket UCAs utilize a simple (relatively inexpensive) urethane bushing system (composed of two urethane "hat" style bushings and one inner steel crush sleeve/bushing) that is very intolerant of being out of parallel.

If, when using the typical aftermarket urethane bushing system, the caster plate adjustment needs to be adjusted so that the OEM side plates end up being out of parallel to the bushings themselves then you're going to get accelerated wear each time the front suspension moves/cycles.

Additionally, while a grease zirk seems like it would be a useful feature in reality there are no spiral grooves on the inner ID/bore of the urethane bushings I've used/seen that allow grease to migrate to effectively lube the mating surfaces. You really end up, after they start squeaking, needing to either spray lube them, typically only temporarily effective or complete disassembly of the bushings...and manually cleaning & lubing the bushings pieces. And then, of course, another alignment is needed...

Summary: Ask lots of questions when you're in shopping mode guys so you don't end up with "2-steps forward and 3-steps back...".

Im not entirely following your wording. what's your suggestion? or should I ask where is your upper control money spent

 

[roma042987]

What are you referring to by "oem side plates"?

 

[spressomon]

Its a bigger design challenge that most would realize when trying to keep the sell price of the UCAs within reach of most 100 owners (same thing that all aftermarket component designers are faced with). Its relatively easy to design and fab an UCA that allows a large range of adjustability without sacrificing durability and/or component longevity. But at the price of admission...few would ante up.

I've learned first hand after buying, installing and running many of the aftermarket products, the shortcomings of the parts. At the end of the day I'm not really sure the aftermarket front UCAs really solve as many problems as they can create. For those that don't drive more than a few thousand/ <10,000 miles per year then the benefits probably outweigh the negatives.

If you can keep the front suspension height to around 19.5" you typically can get by with the OEM UCAs...they're very durable, they're maintenance free for the life of the components (ball joint and inner bushings), run quiet, affordable, etc.

I think its important for guys to know the plusses and the minuses so you can decide for yourself if the potential sum is worth the price of admission.

 

[roma042987]

so do the factory upper control arms have cam bolts for camber adjustment?

 

[spressomon]

What are you referring to by "oem side plates"?

Here's a photo of my prior UCAs. The black dotted lines represent the frame mounted brackets ("side plates") on the LC and the yellow line represents the cam mounting bolt (the cam mount bolt is what holds the inner UCA bushings to the frame "side plates". As the cams are adjusted farther to get more caster the bushings move more and more out of parallel from the side mount plates. This induces bind on either the outer sides of the bushing (OD) and/or binds/distorts the inner crush sleeve bushing to urethane bushing ID/bore.

 

[spressomon]

so do the factory upper control arms have cam bolts for camber adjustment?

On our 100/470 series: Yes. The caster & camber adjustment, via the cam bolts and cams will still be the same for any aftermarket arm. The arm is independent of these cams/cam bolts...

 

[spressomon]

If the aftermarket UCA designer can get most of the caster correction at the ball joint end then it will minimize the amount of off-parallel adjustment via the inner cams/cam bolts. But if the caster needs to be adjusted beyond a slight amount, leaving the crush sleeve bushing and/or outer urethane bushing flanges to flex/bridge the angle gap (shown in red above) then this will result in component distortion, bind, accelerated wear and probably increased noise.

If you look closely you can see the left side of the old urethane bushing being deflected/distorted. When the components are not in parallel, due to getting the caster # right, then something has to give...and its always the softest material. Both the outer urethane bushing flanges and the inner ID/bore of same were severely worn and the ID/bore was distorted significantly from being run out of parallel.

 

[roma042987]

ok got it. that certainly makes a lot more sense so by side plates you just ment where the sides of the bushings attach to the rig. seems like the cam bolts should be turned proportionally and primarily to correct camber. Caster adjustment should be achieved with adjustment at the ball joint such as on the spc control arms.

 

[roma042987]

I had no idea my 100 had the factory cam bolts. i'll pull it up on the alignment rack at work tomorrow and take a closer look.