Next Gen Land Cruiser (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tex68w
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I hear you. And you make very valid points. It is however my professional (I'm an econometrician) opinion that Toyota MC, and even more so TMNA, made a critical business pivot in 2020.
The 1FZ had critical longevity flaws. The 2UZ has serious fuel EVAP and fuel boiling flaws. Both will and can leave you stranded prematurely, despite our collective insistence that Toyota Engg is flawless. And despite 30 year service life goals. Marketing is strong. ...Since you mentioned these (and I'm focusing on the petrols).
With true FED M3 inflationary pressures Toyota is commoditizing like they've never before.
Turbos are not new tech. Efficiency and reliability are inversely proportional. Metallurgy has not advanced that quickly. I'm not confident in Toyota's intent in the LC space.
I realize we have differing opinions. I hope I'm wrong. It doesn't really matter though as TMNA muscled themselves out of the LC in this market, for it is they who is our true collective enemy.
MoJ
Moderator
Yes, yes, Toyota is our true enemy. I think you’ve ran one too many regression models.
Also add, the 2008-2015 2UZ has near 100% failure rate of the radiator and starter motor around the 100,000+ mark. The starter motor is a $1,000 fix that requires taking off the top half of the engine to access. The 16-20 models fixed these two issues (although not, of course, the stupid location of the starter).
Cut through the marketing BS and it's undeniable that - alongside certain engineering improvements - the new engine has numerous additional potential areas of failure. Besides the increased complexity of the engine, there is also higher combustion chamber pressure which will likely affect the lifespan of the engine.
MoJ
Moderator
Wait you’re telling me you might have to PM a starter every 100k miles and that’s a major problem?
In what market was the 2UZ used in the years (2008-2015) as mentioned?
Regarding the radiator are you sure you’re not thinking of the 200 series 3UR?
Thank you, I did mean 3UR. I do consider a $1,000 repair bill significant. In any case, time will tell the durability of the new engine and vehicle. I'm not saying it's junk by any means, but I do believe it will be less reliable over a longer lifespan (100,000+ miles) than its immediate predecessor.
MoJ
Moderator
$1k (and that’s if you’re unable to diy the starter) spent on a vehicle at 100k+ mile intervals is quite reasonable.
It’s worth noting that the 100 and 200 failure points (starter, radiator, and geez EVAP) mentioned have nothing to do the reliability of the motor itself. Catastrophic engine failure hasn’t been a common problem. Period.
Fair enough. Forgive me for being rusty on the codename, I did have to sell my beloved LX 2 years ago as the payment was too high for my budget (made a post about it). It still saddens me. The replacement of the starter motor is not like a normal vehicle and not a simple DIY job, it is badly designed. It is a simple and inexpensive job compared to turbo failures.
I'll be back in a full size SUV next time. In any case, I'm not the target market for a $100,000 truck, hence the need to buy secondhand.
I'll be back in a full size SUV next time. In any case, I'm not the target market for a $100,000 truck, hence the need to buy secondhand.
Gotta keep in perspective that internal combustion engines are on their way out. The writing is on the wall (and in the books). The end game will not be gasoline or diesel powered engines.
Toyota knows this better than anyone and whatever gasoline engines they make today, they know they won't be making them a decade from now (except for very select markets).
The new 3.4L turbo V6 in the new 300 series is what might be called the end of the road (or era) for the internal combustion engine in a land cruiser because everything is pointing to all electric vehicles 10 to 15 years from now.
So I wouldn't get too hung up on the potential reliability issues of the turbo stressed 3.4L V6. I'm sure it'll last 10 years/200 K and by then, the next cruiser won't even have an engine in it anymore- but a motor (electric motor).
Toyota knows this better than anyone and whatever gasoline engines they make today, they know they won't be making them a decade from now (except for very select markets).
The new 3.4L turbo V6 in the new 300 series is what might be called the end of the road (or era) for the internal combustion engine in a land cruiser because everything is pointing to all electric vehicles 10 to 15 years from now.
So I wouldn't get too hung up on the potential reliability issues of the turbo stressed 3.4L V6. I'm sure it'll last 10 years/200 K and by then, the next cruiser won't even have an engine in it anymore- but a motor (electric motor).
Ain't gonna happen. If in 10 years we'll see 30% of new sales be EV in the US I'd consider it a huge success and a surprise. ICE is not going anywhere any time soon. It may be legislated away in Europe, especially in wealthy places like Norway, but it's not going away. I like EVs, have had one for 3 years (I guess it makes me a late early adopter?), but I am not seeing en masse switch to EVs in 10 years. Heck, all the EV choices on the market now are largely unattractive or the value is not there (too much $$$ for what you get in return). Nothing to replace my i3, really.
Agree with some of your points, but not on the near 100% failure rate of the radiator and starter motor. I just didn't see this, and agree without someone else's post about being catastrophic. I just sold my 2013 with 348,570 miles on it. I "proactively" replacement the starter, water pump, and radiator at 300,000 miles. All stock from day one (I'm was the only owner of the truck).
I hate that the V8 has gone away, but I'm going to give the 3.5 twin turbo a run in Lexus form this next spring. It's an LC underneath, and I have that Land Cruiser affliction... I'm going to run it just I like I did the last one.
Each time there is a generational or technology change the enthusiast platforms light up with hate about the change and the "They've ruined it!" mentality. Think back to when the 100 series and the 200 series were initially released. Change is hard.
Seems this is a common theme with Land Cruisers, 911s, BMW M cars, and every other enthusiast vehicle out there.
I for one am excited to see the new V6TT powerplant and trust in Toyota's mantra on the platform's reliability.
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Spelling
Seems this is a common theme with Land Cruisers, 911s, BMW M cars, and every other enthusiast vehicle out there.
I for one am excited to see the new V6TT powerplant and trust in Toyota's mantra on the platform's reliability.
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Spelling
MoJ
Moderator
Yep. The effort to preserve the perceived awesomeness around the outgoing generation is universally predictable and apparent.
But still leaves us stranded, which is the LC claim to fame otherwise no? Actually I consider the evap a serious Toyota oversight. I can predict a radiator and starter PM. The entire evap system needing attention (especially 2006-2006) is just flat stupid, I'm STILL troubleshooting years later and many roadside frustrations and won't trust my 100 fully.
You don't need a catastrophic failure to not trust in your vehicle.
I can't wait for the 400 series!
Maybe they will fix all of these fake problems.
I generally agree.
For my use case, I rarely want to be doing anything rougher than a bad FSR. The important part for me is being able to do it, rather than doing it on a regular basis. I can't count the number of times I've come across a cross-ditch that no Subaru could even dream of passing, but that was easily doable in the LX. That's what I value: being able to handle the unexpected, rather than the mundane.
Of course, there are a million other factors, too.
it ain’t just a code, you know. Vehicle stalls under load at high speed, or high ambient heat, or random Tuesdays. Other times they won’t restart at moderate altitude. Brake booster failures that are questionably catastrophic.
I’m a huge LC fanboi. 13 of them to-date, several off the dealer lots. My love remains, but I am not sold on the LC being the reliability unicorn we’ve made it out to be.
This wasn't my (or all the other 200 Series folks) experience with 200 Series evap stuff. High heat, elevation, 12 hours on the trail, ect... it just threw a code on initial startup, you clear the code with a $9 OBDII reader, you're on your way with no issues.
No brake issues either. AFAIK that's only a 100 series thing. Starter is occasionally reported but they update the P/N with an improved design. Same with the radiator. That said it's in the service intervals to inspect the coolant system. They generally don't just blow up randomly. It shows warning signs. It's not like BMWs where the intervals literally require you to replace everything that's coolant system related every 60k-100k depending on the model.
