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- #21
I will check the intake manifold, it was supposed to have a new gasket when removed and headers were installed. What or where is the Vacum Booster? I can not find anything in the FSM
New Trollhole carb and still not running right, step by step?
- Thread starter Chocolyle
- Start date
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- #22
I checked around the intake top and bottom and do not see any signs of something off. Started it let it run for a few minutes. Looked in the carb while running and I do not see any fuel dripping. Booth butterfly's at the bottom closed. While running I pulled the idle cut solenoid and it left on running?
Headers are notorious for causing manifold gasket leak problems.
The vacuum booster is for your power brakes.
You may not see it, but the gas for it idling has to come from somewhere. If there is no idle fuel (as the solenoid test suggests), then it has to be coming out of the main jets. The lack of idle fuel could be the problem. Does the solenoid click when you disconnect and reconnect it? If not, make sure it is getting power and is grounded.
Remove the idle mixture screw and the idle fuel cut off solenoid. Spray inside the holes with carb cleaner and then compressed air. Wash, rinse, repeat and hope that some junk came out.
If that doesn't help, keep looking for manifold vacuum leaks. Spray carb cleaner or propane gas around the entire manifold gasket top and bottom. Pinch off the hoses for the brake booster and PCV. Look at the bottom of the intake manifold for cracks with a flashlight and the throttle wide open.
The vacuum booster is for your power brakes.
You may not see it, but the gas for it idling has to come from somewhere. If there is no idle fuel (as the solenoid test suggests), then it has to be coming out of the main jets. The lack of idle fuel could be the problem. Does the solenoid click when you disconnect and reconnect it? If not, make sure it is getting power and is grounded.
Remove the idle mixture screw and the idle fuel cut off solenoid. Spray inside the holes with carb cleaner and then compressed air. Wash, rinse, repeat and hope that some junk came out.
If that doesn't help, keep looking for manifold vacuum leaks. Spray carb cleaner or propane gas around the entire manifold gasket top and bottom. Pinch off the hoses for the brake booster and PCV. Look at the bottom of the intake manifold for cracks with a flashlight and the throttle wide open.
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- #24
Here's a video of the truck running, inside carb and exhaust. It is a straight exhaust muffler only.
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- #25
What is the though if it keeps running though? I am going out to check that is is working.
Huh?
If it keeps running with the idle fuel solenoid disconnected, then it isn't getting any idle fuel. The circuit may be plugged or the solenoid isn't working which is why I suggested that you check it and try to clean it out with compressed air and carb cleaner.
Does the accelerator pump squirt fuel when you open the throttle?
If it keeps running with the idle fuel solenoid disconnected, then it isn't getting any idle fuel. The circuit may be plugged or the solenoid isn't working which is why I suggested that you check it and try to clean it out with compressed air and carb cleaner.
Does the accelerator pump squirt fuel when you open the throttle?
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- #27
Ahhhhhhh. . . .
I just checked to see if it clicks multiple times and it is. I will pull it and the IMS tomorrow and do the cleaning. I will also check more closely for cracks and spray with carb cleaner. Question, I did not put in gaskets when I put on the Trollhole carb and thought I read/saw something that you do not need them with the factory carb? Is that correct with the stock riser? The Weber on it did have gaskets between the carb body and riser then riser and manifold.
By the way thank you, these are the trouble shooting steps I was looking for!!
I just checked to see if it clicks multiple times and it is. I will pull it and the IMS tomorrow and do the cleaning. I will also check more closely for cracks and spray with carb cleaner. Question, I did not put in gaskets when I put on the Trollhole carb and thought I read/saw something that you do not need them with the factory carb? Is that correct with the stock riser? The Weber on it did have gaskets between the carb body and riser then riser and manifold.
By the way thank you, these are the trouble shooting steps I was looking for!!
The factory insulator comes with gaskets bonded on, but they may not be in good shape. If not, you can use a gasket too.
What is an IMS? Intake manifold something? Is so, no need to pull it yet.
Idle mixture screw? Yes, pull it and the solenoid and see if you can blast some dirt out and get it flowing so it will idle and stall when you disconnect the solenoid wire.
You don't have to pull the carb, but if you do, you might as well take the top cover off and verify that the idle circuit is clear and flowing by spraying carb cleaner throught the passages. The idle fuel solenoid has a rubber O ring seal and sometimes it gets messed up and ends up plugging the passage.
The transition slot feeds fuel at partial throttle just off idle and it gets its fuel fromt he same idle circuit as the idle mix screw. That is why you bog down off idle and have a rough idle: no idle fuel.
What is an IMS? Intake manifold something? Is so, no need to pull it yet.
Idle mixture screw? Yes, pull it and the solenoid and see if you can blast some dirt out and get it flowing so it will idle and stall when you disconnect the solenoid wire.
You don't have to pull the carb, but if you do, you might as well take the top cover off and verify that the idle circuit is clear and flowing by spraying carb cleaner throught the passages. The idle fuel solenoid has a rubber O ring seal and sometimes it gets messed up and ends up plugging the passage.
The transition slot feeds fuel at partial throttle just off idle and it gets its fuel fromt he same idle circuit as the idle mix screw. That is why you bog down off idle and have a rough idle: no idle fuel.
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- #29
Idle Mixture Screw
The gasket attached to the insulator seemed okay but I did notice the carb rocked a little when just sitting on the intake man. I will throw the gaskets on just to be safe and check the other two items. It make sense on the no idle fuel but a Weber and now the Trollhole new carb?
Before I remove it I'm going to check the intake gasket.
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- #30
Just popped the carb off, is it bad to have a puddle of gas inside the intake?
It is not good, but it is not the cause of your running problems.
It is due to surface tension creep of the fuel out of the bowl throught he idle circuit. Oxygenated fuel like E85 is much more likely to do this.
It is due to surface tension creep of the fuel out of the bowl throught he idle circuit. Oxygenated fuel like E85 is much more likely to do this.
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- #32
When I start it after sitting a while I get a back fire out of the carb. Scares the bejesus out of you!
I pulled the carb shot carb cleaner through the idle mixture screw, came out clean and easy, repeated a couple times. Pulled the solenoid checked the O ring on the unit, there was a kittle tear/extra piece of rubber coming off but looked clean. Same procedure nothing I saw cam out. Put it back on with the gaskets, small change for the better.
Prior to pulling it I sprayed carb cleaner in multiple locations, could not detect a change in idle or sound. Carb, manifold, EGR, everywhere. When I pulled the carb though there was a fair amount in the gasket area of the insulator block. So it would make sense that adding would make a small improvement.
After this, it is still running like it is miss firing, or not running right at all. New coil and a little better, added the gasket and a little better.
I went to the dizzy and pulled the cap to check a few things. The cap to rotor connection was good, I checked the air gap on the signal generator and it is a t the minimum of .008. Tried to adjust but one screw will not budge. I then pulled the sig.gen off and double checked in side. The breaker plate does not have smooth rotation. Also it looks like water has been in there and looks like a little oil is in there.
I pulled the carb shot carb cleaner through the idle mixture screw, came out clean and easy, repeated a couple times. Pulled the solenoid checked the O ring on the unit, there was a kittle tear/extra piece of rubber coming off but looked clean. Same procedure nothing I saw cam out. Put it back on with the gaskets, small change for the better.
Prior to pulling it I sprayed carb cleaner in multiple locations, could not detect a change in idle or sound. Carb, manifold, EGR, everywhere. When I pulled the carb though there was a fair amount in the gasket area of the insulator block. So it would make sense that adding would make a small improvement.
After this, it is still running like it is miss firing, or not running right at all. New coil and a little better, added the gasket and a little better.
I went to the dizzy and pulled the cap to check a few things. The cap to rotor connection was good, I checked the air gap on the signal generator and it is a t the minimum of .008. Tried to adjust but one screw will not budge. I then pulled the sig.gen off and double checked in side. The breaker plate does not have smooth rotation. Also it looks like water has been in there and looks like a little oil is in there.
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- #33
Pics did go through, here is the dizzy internal.
With the weber carb, when I first got the truck the shop I had trying to figure out what was wrong said it was running lean. They found it missing a gasket and put it on. It was better but the mid flat spot would not go away. After much reading the Trollhole carb looked to be the fix, but seems to be showing more problems.
In CT the gas is 10% ethanal, right now the truck has 89 Octane in it. The pooling of gas in the intake manifold just does not seem right and when you pull out a plug they are sometimes wet and smell of gas. The fuel pump is new and last tested a few month ago, at 3PSI. I get the leak in the intake but I can not get anything to show that. I f it is not firing all cylinders all the time could that be why the idle circuit is not working? Not enough air flow and then why I am getting this pooling of gas and poor running at idle / no power?
With the weber carb, when I first got the truck the shop I had trying to figure out what was wrong said it was running lean. They found it missing a gasket and put it on. It was better but the mid flat spot would not go away. After much reading the Trollhole carb looked to be the fix, but seems to be showing more problems.
In CT the gas is 10% ethanal, right now the truck has 89 Octane in it. The pooling of gas in the intake manifold just does not seem right and when you pull out a plug they are sometimes wet and smell of gas. The fuel pump is new and last tested a few month ago, at 3PSI. I get the leak in the intake but I can not get anything to show that. I f it is not firing all cylinders all the time could that be why the idle circuit is not working? Not enough air flow and then why I am getting this pooling of gas and poor running at idle / no power?
Choco, with respect to those images of the dizzy...with the breaker plate removed, can you confirm that the governor weights are not rusted in place but rather can still pivot?
Under centrifugal force (as a result of the rotation of the dizzy shaft), the weights and springs work together to advance/retard the 'mechanical' component of timing. When the centrifugal force is sufficient for the weight to pull against a spring, it will 'open' (i.e. fling towards the wall of the dizzy) by overcoming the spring tension...this results in a rotation of the breaker plate and ultimately an advance in timing.
If the weights are rusted and do not pivot freely, then they will not 'open'.
You can clean that all down there by spraying some Electrical Cleaner spray to get all that funky stuff out of there. Just make sure that it is all dry before putting the dizzy back together.
Also, in this picture (see below), it looks like the plastic stop pin bushing is gone...at least it appears to be gone in the image....
The arrow is pointing to the stop pin, but i don't see the bushing around it.
You can order an aluminum bushing with close-to-OEM dimensions that can be fit around the stop pin...see post #13 for information and link to website to get online:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/distributor-stop-pin-bushing-dimensions.784670/
Having a stop pin bushing will set the correct 'throw' to the weights and improve your odds of having the correct ignition timing advance curve (i.e. the right spark at the right time).
Under centrifugal force (as a result of the rotation of the dizzy shaft), the weights and springs work together to advance/retard the 'mechanical' component of timing. When the centrifugal force is sufficient for the weight to pull against a spring, it will 'open' (i.e. fling towards the wall of the dizzy) by overcoming the spring tension...this results in a rotation of the breaker plate and ultimately an advance in timing.
If the weights are rusted and do not pivot freely, then they will not 'open'.
You can clean that all down there by spraying some Electrical Cleaner spray to get all that funky stuff out of there. Just make sure that it is all dry before putting the dizzy back together.
Also, in this picture (see below), it looks like the plastic stop pin bushing is gone...at least it appears to be gone in the image....
The arrow is pointing to the stop pin, but i don't see the bushing around it.
You can order an aluminum bushing with close-to-OEM dimensions that can be fit around the stop pin...see post #13 for information and link to website to get online:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/distributor-stop-pin-bushing-dimensions.784670/
Having a stop pin bushing will set the correct 'throw' to the weights and improve your odds of having the correct ignition timing advance curve (i.e. the right spark at the right time).
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- #36
I did not test the solenoid but I did, by accident turn it all the way in and nothing changed. BTW what is the correct default turns for it? 1.5? I will check the solenoid tonight.
If it does not stall does that still suggest a vac leak then? I went and sprayed everywhere with no change. Any other suggestions of where and how?
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- #37
You mention this before, I believe with the Weber issues, now I see what you mean. No the plastic bushing is not in there. I will get the other one order and get the dizzy cleaned out. Weights I will also need to check. One did move freely but I was not looking for that.
Should the breaker plate move freely, can it be repaired or is it a replacement thing? It moved but not freely. Should there be lubrication on these parts? Dry lube, oil etc?
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- #38
One other dizzy issue, one of the cap screws was broke off in the body, are two enough? Or should I plan on pulling the whole unit out and fix that and get it cleaned up?
The Electrical Cleaner spray should clean everything up (including breaker plate)...the only lubrication needed inside the dizzy is under that black plastic cap at the tip of the shaft (and that is for the shaft bearings because the shaft spins fast and uses a special type of grease).
As long as the 2/3 screws hold down the dizzy cap tight and secure...it needs to be tight so that it can't pop off axis while the rotor is rotating (the clearance between the tip of the rotor and the contacts on the inside of the dizzy cap must remain constant) and also so that water can't leak in.
You should be able to drill and extract or drill and tap new threads for the 3rd, stuck screw.
As long as the 2/3 screws hold down the dizzy cap tight and secure...it needs to be tight so that it can't pop off axis while the rotor is rotating (the clearance between the tip of the rotor and the contacts on the inside of the dizzy cap must remain constant) and also so that water can't leak in.
You should be able to drill and extract or drill and tap new threads for the 3rd, stuck screw.
The dizzy looks like it's seen better days...for the price of a new dizzy from Trollhole it's well worth avoiding the head ache of fixing your current one. Not that I don't encourage fixing and trying to make what ya got work, but you've been thru the ringer with this truck so far. With a new dizzy you would eliminate that factor in the equation rather than fixing your old one and maybe still have a rough running truck and wonde if it's the dizzy or the repair you did on the dizzy. Does that make sense? I had a similar situation where I couldn't get my 40 to run correctly and finally installed a new dizzy and it was like magic, ran like a champ.