New to welding - questions (1 Viewer)

[Azca]

Hey guys, new to welding. The only time I have welded is by accident as an electrician. I have Just ordered a Hobart 210MVP with a spool gun. Based upon my experience and recommendations on this forum, going cheap is not the answer for such an important tool. Did some reading in this forum and purchased such things as a new ground clamp, Hobart welding helmet (didn't want to get flashed) leather jacket, gloves, some tools, and some nozzle gel but not much else. I need to buy the tanks and a table (also thinking the Hobart as I have read that some of the cheap ones are not flat) and wire for the gun.

So, as it appears to the untrained person that the wire is extremely important. What steel and aluminum wire should I buy? Almost all automotive welding and fab. Any recommendation on tanks, rather have two small ones rather than one large one. Hoses, valves?

Thanks for the input!

 

[PAToyota]

The larger the tank, the more welding you'll do between fills. However, whatever size tank you get, you're going to run out when the local welding supply (LWS) is closed...

For wire, I stick with the options at the LWS - Harris, Lincoln, Radnor, ESAB. For steel, ER70S-3 gives a nice clean weld and with an argon mix gives little spatter. With CO2 you can get better penetration. ER70S-6 works a bit better if you're typically welding on less than clean metal. For aluminum, 4043 is a good choice. 5356 gives more strength, but requires faster wire speed, which can make it a bit more difficult to work with.

Going with the LWS will also give you their expertise. Let them know what you're welding and any particular parameters and they can help you with other options.

 

[e9999]

It is likely cheaper per unit of gas to fill bigger tanks. And likely cheaper per gas storage volume to buy them in the first place too. However, keep in mind you may want to use different gases for different situations/metals so having only one big tank may be a problem with that. Also transport is more difficult with big if you go get it yourself. Then again, if you keep them for a while you may need to have them recertified which is a cost per tank. Then, of course, there is the tank renting vs owning bit. Yup, life is complicated... and that's just the tank side... But still way fun to weld!

 

[PAToyota]

I was going to say the cost per unit was cheaper, but then I wasn't sure if it was a flat rate per unit - like a gallon of gas. I just typically have them fill my cylinder, so haven't paid attention to cost per unit or whether it is different rates for different cylinders. And yes, the whole buying vs. renting question...

 

[Azca]

Ok, so, this is not as easy as I was hoping. Normal for me, if there is a harder way to do something, I will find it...

 

[e9999]

I'm mentioning different gases because you talked about a spool gun - for aluminum presumably. Another thing that may possibly be an issue then is the regulator connection to the bottle. IIANM, you may need different connectors for some gases. From memory, I think the CO2 connector is different from that for inert gases (look at CGA standards for gases and nipples). So you may want/need several regulators, although I think that in principle it should be possible to just replace the connector piece between the regulator body and the tank valve, but that is probably too much to do every time you change gas. And with some gases there may also be freezing issues so a different type of regulator may be better then. So may be wise to budget for more than one regulator assembly. (You may also want to think about what gases you'll be using when buying a flowmeter, but that is a minor issue.) Or you could keep it much simpler and just use flux core and forget about the bleeping gas altogether for steel at least!

 

[Pin_Head]

You are going to want two large K size cylinders: one for C25 and the other for pure argon for use in welding aluminum with your spool gun. Bite the bullet. Sometimes you can get good deals on tanks on Craig’s list or Offer Up, but you need to make sure that they are “owner” tanks with a clear neck ring and that your LWS will take them on trade in. Tanks don’t depreciate much. The last K tank I bought 15 years ago cost $150 new from AirGas and used ones are going for 200-250 around here. We get a good deal from AirGas because we are their largest customer in the county and they deliver daily to our loading dock.

 

[e9999]

Unfortunately, keeping 2 large tanks in a small garage / shop may be a bit much for the average weekend DIYer. I for one would have a hard time finding room for 2 in a safe out of the way place inside. Then again, 2 tall ones do not take more floorspace than 2 small ones so there is hope, but small ones are easier with a cart.

It definitely helps to have a good relationship with a good gas supplier. Some may not want to refill your own tank instead of a straight exchange, or not being willing -or able- to recertify a tank, etc. And I have to say it would break my heart to buy a brand new shiny tank and have to exchange it for an old rusty PoC tank the next time around... Not that the old rusty PoC tank would not fit in well with my shop interior design...

 

[Azca]

You are going to want two large K size cylinders: one for C25 and the other for pure argon for use in welding aluminum with your spool gun. Bite the bullet. Sometimes you can get good deals on tanks on Craig’s list or Offer Up, but you need to make sure that they are “owner” tanks with a clear neck ring and that your LWS will take them on trade in. Tanks don’t depreciate much. The last K tank I bought 15 years ago cost $150 new from AirGas and used ones are going for 200-250 around here. We get a good deal from AirGas because we are their largest customer in the county and they deliver daily to our loading dock.

Pin_Head, thank you! The owner tank, clear neck ring have me scratching my bald spot. I have absolutely no idea of what you are speaking of but love the fact that you think I do! Makes me feel a little less incompetent that I thought I was.

 

[Azca]

Unfortunately, keeping 2 large tanks in a small garage / shop may be a bit much for the average weekend DIYer. I for one would have a hard time finding room for 2 in a safe out of the way place inside. Then again, 2 tall ones do not take more floorspace than 2 small ones so there is hope, but small ones are easier with a cart.

It definitely helps to have a good relationship with a good gas supplier. Some may not want to refill your own tank instead of a straight exchange, or not being willing -or able- to recertify a tank, etc. And I have to say it would break my heart to buy a brand new shiny tank and have to exchange it for an old rusty PoC tank the next time around... Not that the old rusty PoC tank would not fit in well with my shop interior design...

I will find room for them. Not too big of a bullet and after doing a little more reading, it appears that the tanks will not last as long as I hoped. So, it is off to bigger tanks. As far as new and recertified, with my luck I will get hosed no matter what. I need to check with a LWS and see what they want/recomend. Don't need to pay twice for the same equipment...

 

[Pin_Head]

The name on the neck ring indicates who owns the tank. If there is a company name on the ring, nobody else is going to fill or exchange it for you because you are not the owner. If the neck ring is blank, then anyone that has it owns it and it can be exchanged of filled by anyone. It also needs to be within its hydro test date or you may have to pay to have it tested. 250 cu/ft it a good size that most people can barely lift on to their welding cart and pickup truck. The difference in cost for buying and filling a 250 cu/ft tank and a 125 cu/ft tank are small, so you may as well have the big boys.