The MT/R with Kevlar debuted in 2009, I remember it well because I made sure I had the first set in Austin at the time. They are great hybrid M/T tire but disgustingly over priced and only 13 years old, no where near 20+.
New Tires BFG vs Falken
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The MT/R with Kevlar debuted in 2009, I remember it well because I made sure I had the first set in Austin at the time. They are great hybrid M/T tire but disgustingly over priced and only 13 years old, no where near 20+.
Once again, Toyo AT3 gets ding for bad wet weather handling.
Goodyear has since added MT/R with Kevlar with a weird tread pattern and adding Kevlar to its tread AND sidewall (pretty cool!). Before MT/R with Kevlar, the normal/old MT/R only had different sidewall compound (“Durawall”) to make it strong along with 3-plies. MT/R with Kevlar took sidewall strength to the next level with 3-plies, Durawall, and Kevlar!! But the tread pattern became weird.
I know this thread is BFG vs. Falk but we have a lot of threads on tires already lol and thought, what the heck, let’s add a twist. Here is a good video between the Ridge and Recon. Unfortunately, the Recon has a limited tire size range but since we are considering A/T tires anyways, this could provide some helpful info. for the thread starter to consider. For me, the Recon would make a great choice if you venture off-road occasionally or just want a cool looking tire that may not be as noisy and has good road manners.
I am considering the Defender as well. I have just automatically bought BFG A / T and now KO2s for my Land Cruisers for every replacement in the last 35 years. In Alaska, seems like every small town tire place can get them. And I can get them all over down south of the border. However, part of the reason i have stuck with them over decades is they just work for my use case. I tow an offroad trailer a lot of gravel and dirt road miles. From AK to the Cascades down to Central America. A lot of nasty ‘roads’ with brutally sharp rocks all over Arizona. I have never gotten a flat tire. Ever. Leaky cuts in the sidewall? A couple. Steel belt failure after 500 hot gravel washboarded miles. But not a single ‘pull to the side of the road and change the tire’ moments. That earns a lot of respect from me over the last 850,000 miles.
Considering the Defender because it seems to be that one road-biased tire that can take brutal gravel and survive.
Considering the Defender because it seems to be that one road-biased tire that can take brutal gravel and survive.
Loved the Falken WP! Had 54k miles on them before my wife caught a screwdriver. Had to replace all 4. Went from 305/55/20 on those to Cooper Discoverer XLT AT3 in a 305/65/18 as they were a little cheaper. We'll see on the Coopers. The WP were quite amazing. Mostly highway but did tool around the San Juans (including Mineral Creek) without any issues. Somehow they went from an affordable option to one of the more expensive in just a few years.
I was referring to the overall brand name MT/R, which debuted in 1999, thus 23 years. I still have a set, 17 years old from my H1/Alpha. These were marketed as DuraWall Puncture Resistant in the oval that now says Kevlar and were a factory option to replace the GSAs.
You were certainly an early adopter of the Kevlar version!
Up until a few months ago they were the less expensive option. KO2 was always one of the highest and AT3W was a $20-$50 less. Now it seems to be the inverse. Don't know if it's deliberate by Falken as they've gained in popularity or if it's a function of supply chain.
Falken has broken into multiple markets with somewhat of the same strategy. Starting with sports cars and racing in grassroots motorsports to great success. They've done the same in the off-roading scene. Pricing low to get market share and overdelivering on performance.
Don't take that for some no name startup. The brand hails from the largest Japanese rubber manufacturer, Sumitomo and SRI, originally a supplier for all things rubber, but also manufacturing tires for name brands such as Goodyear, Dunlop, and others.
Now that the brand is established, they're selling the tires based on performance. In my experience, they deliver and I would pay for that. A real All-Terrain tire with no obvious shortcomings.
Don't take that for some no name startup. The brand hails from the largest Japanese rubber manufacturer, Sumitomo and SRI, originally a supplier for all things rubber, but also manufacturing tires for name brands such as Goodyear, Dunlop, and others.
Now that the brand is established, they're selling the tires based on performance. In my experience, they deliver and I would pay for that. A real All-Terrain tire with no obvious shortcomings.
You’re definitely going to hear more noise from the pavement but
I’ve found with my Ridge Grappler, they are very quiet at first but you’ll get a decent hum after 25k miles on them and my mpg took a hit. However, I should have rotated them more often and I believe a lot of the negative noise reviews come from people who don’t rotate often enough. Example of my tire noise…If you have a white noise app on your phone or sleep machine if you use and found that nice soothing decibel level to put you to sleep and then cranked it up 5-6 decibels, that’s the sound the Ridge grappler makes. It’s loud enough that has made me start shopping for a new tire so the road trips are more pleasurable. My wife and kids don’t pay any attention to it but my OCD does and that’s probably because I’ve had some very quiet vehicles over the past and my ears are always trying to pick apart sounds to a fault. Pretty frustrating at times but has helped diagnose problems that others couldn’t pick out. The Toyo At3 intrigues me because it’s a little less aggressive then the Falk WP and a bit lighter while still maintaining a nice A/t look. I have no clue if the Toyos are any good other then reading peoples objective review of them. The Revo3 is another on my list. Personally, I think most of the tires we all decide on are going to suck in one area and phenomenal in others.
I am shopping for new tires and my top aspects for a tire in order are:
1:Reliability
2:wet traction
3:road handling
4:road noise
5:comfort
6:forest roads/slick rock
7:cost
8:decent sidewall look.
I agree with you. The Falken appears to be a great tire. I’ve exhaustively read and watched great reviews from real owners, wannabe owners,trolls(lol) to tire comparison “tire experts” on YouTube. Lol! But, where else are you going to get in-depth info these days. Anyways, the praise seems to be from folks who live above the snow belt. The biggest penalty and similar to the KO2 is the weight of them if you’re concerned about losing more mpg and acceleration power. The last two are important for me as snow traction is not. Finding the best a/t is impossible as we all have different needs. Heck, I’ve read so many reviews about the Toyo at3 being loud and also being absolutely quiet. Some say they suck in the snow and others say they are amazing.
I’ve found with my Ridge Grappler, they are very quiet at first but you’ll get a decent hum after 25k miles on them and my mpg took a hit. However, I should have rotated them more often and I believe a lot of the negative noise reviews come from people who don’t rotate often enough. Example of my tire noise…If you have a white noise app on your phone or sleep machine if you use and found that nice soothing decibel level to put you to sleep and then cranked it up 5-6 decibels, that’s the sound the Ridge grappler makes. It’s loud enough that has made me start shopping for a new tire so the road trips are more pleasurable. My wife and kids don’t pay any attention to it but my OCD does and that’s probably because I’ve had some very quiet vehicles over the past and my ears are always trying to pick apart sounds to a fault. Pretty frustrating at times but has helped diagnose problems that others couldn’t pick out. The Toyo At3 intrigues me because it’s a little less aggressive then the Falk WP and a bit lighter while still maintaining a nice A/t look. I have no clue if the Toyos are any good other then reading peoples objective review of them. The Revo3 is another on my list. Personally, I think most of the tires we all decide on are going to suck in one area and phenomenal in others.
I am shopping for new tires and my top aspects for a tire in order are:
1:Reliability
2:wet traction
3:road handling
4:road noise
5:comfort
6:forest roads/slick rock
7:cost
8:decent sidewall look.
There is no such thing as “objective” review from owners. That is why TireRack CONSUMER reviews are semi-trash. Most of them compare their brand new shiny tires to their old 50k mile tires and trashing their old tires! For me, I look at the NEGATIVE consumer reviews and go from there.
That is why I did the noise thread on my KO2 using my Apple Watch. Some people say how loud KO2s get when they get old. I have mine rotated every 5k miles. I am at 42k miles now. No change in noise level with my Apple Watch. Now THAT IS OBJECTIVE DATA!
For me, I drive slow in LC unless straight line on highway. In rain or snow, I drive extra careful. And we do have electronic nannies to save us.
So road noise and sidewall strength are very important to me…because those two things are out of my control. Sure, the other stuff are important too but not huge to me. Cost is almost never a consideration for me given how important tires are!! That is why I also never buy tires from small(er) companies. R&D budget means a lot in tires IMO.
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Sinister
SILVER Star
I’m on my second set of KO2 and have zero issues in any NY weather conditions. I feel EVERYTHING short of a dedicated snow tire will suck on ice. They aren’t that loud either, I’m at 34k and rotate every 5k. I would love the defenders but they look so boring. the BFG have been great in the sand too, I air down to 18psi. After these need replacement if the defenders or another style road tire don’t come out with a little better look to them, I’ll buy set number 3.
If OP were to get Falkens, then don’t get the P/SL version: FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3/W CONCERNS - https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/falken-wildpeak-at3-w-concerns.580838/
Honestly didn’t know people bought tires for how they look. Thank god my wife didn’t chose a husband for the same reason.
nor_cal_cyclist
GOLD Star
KO2's on my 200 for a couple Sierra winters...no problem and I had to TRY to break the truck loose on packed Sierra cement. Maybe a bit noisy, but it's part of having a highway capable/go anywhere 4x4.
Sinister
SILVER Star
Lol, The sexy look is just an added bonus.
I’ve been on KO2s for about 50k. we live 60 miles from Tahoe, they’ve been good in snow, confidence is high with them. We go at least twice a month all winter. This thread and others would you have you believe they are scary in snow and that is just not the case.
snow Tires are better in snow
snow Tires are better in snow
Moby
GOLD Star
Whew, I was worried. I thought we might go a whole month without a BFG KO tire thread
I have zero interested in a BFG KO debate, but FWIW I've got 285/65/R18 AT3W SL on order with Discount Tire. Should be in on Tuesday. I can't make heads or tails of tires anymore, there's no reliable reviews, only opinions, so I'm giving these a shot. I'm hoping they will be good enough to avoid dedicated snows. But we'll see.
Is that thread with the crack concerning? Sure, but N=1 isn't saying a whole lot.
I have zero interested in a BFG KO debate, but FWIW I've got 285/65/R18 AT3W SL on order with Discount Tire. Should be in on Tuesday. I can't make heads or tails of tires anymore, there's no reliable reviews, only opinions, so I'm giving these a shot. I'm hoping they will be good enough to avoid dedicated snows. But we'll see.
Is that thread with the crack concerning? Sure, but N=1 isn't saying a whole lot.
I have had both, and the KO2 are fine on snow, horrible on ice. Scary incident in icy storm where my wife almost slid off a road w her 4runner which I have mentioned in many of these threads. Lots of cars, were making it past her. I was able to drive to her with General Grabbers on my 4Runner at the time and pull her to safety. Even airing down I couldn't get traction with the KO2s to get her car home, trying traction control, 4L, etc. A nearby homeowner was nice enough to let us leave it in their driveway. We made it home fine with my rig with the Grabbers, although it was sketchy. Her tires were C rated KO2s tires and the incident scared my wife to the point she only runs dedicated snow tires on her vehicle in winter. I run studs on one rig that I take often on 5 hour mountain roads to ski in Canada, ID, WA and MT, but keep Falkens on all of my others as they do great in winter.I’ve been on KO2s for about 50k. we live 60 miles from Tahoe, they’ve been good in snow, confidence is high with them. We go at least twice a month all winter. This thread and others would you have you believe they are scary in snow and that is just not the case.
snow Tires are better in snow
Snow traction need snow on snow contact (snow in treads). ATs tend to do decently well with this as long as they are flexible enough to let snow get into the siping. Ice requires soft compound, which is why KO2s suck on ice.
www.popsci.com/story/technology/winter-tire-driving-guide/
"You’ve likely experienced this when packing a snowball or rolling a snowman. Once packed, the snowballs tend to remain pretty sturdy.
Here again, the rubber compound is important, because the tread blocks need to remain flexible at very low temperatures so they can better grab snow. “We like that pattern to open up and trap snow,” Coke explained. “It is important blocks aren’t rigid or they don’t open up and give you that snow to snow grip.”".
KO2s have a strong, stiff rubber that last a long time. Great for most anything BUT ice. I'd hate to hit black ice with them. They also aren't awesome in heavy rain as they are prone to hydroplaning. They are probably the best AT for offroading though, and longevity.
I have had Falkens on ice and they do well for an AT.
The problem is the tire industry lets the 3 peak snowflake designation go on pretty much any modern tire that a manufacturer tests because it only has to perform better than a summer radial. It is a disservice to the consumer.
It would be akin to saying every AWD and 4WD is certified to go offroad because they can all do better than a Geo Metro. Sure, they'll do better, but a Highlander won't do nearly as well as a Land Cruiser.
Consumers and the tire industry should demand that the test provide a rating based on actual snow and ice performance so consumers can have information to make intelligent decisions rather than consumer reviews or people on message boards that have one tire say they do fine in x conditions when they have no real baseline of comparison. Maybe a snowflake system with a 1-10 rating where 1 meets the minimum snowflake rating up to 10 where I assume only the best dedicated winters get 8-10 ratings. Perhaps even bifurcate snow and ice performance where snow is under 1-10 and ice is rated as A-J, so a 10J would be the ultimate in winter traction.
