New Tires BFG vs Falken

[Madtiger]

I have had both, and the KO2 are fine on snow, horrible on ice. Scary incident in icy storm where my wife almost slid off a road w her 4runner which I have mentioned in many of these threads. Lots of cars, were making it past her. I was able to drive to her with General Grabbers on my 4Runner at the time and pull her to safety. Even airing down I couldn't get traction with the KO2s to get her car home, trying traction control, 4L, etc. A nearby homeowner was nice enough to let us leave it in their driveway. We made it home fine with my rig with the Grabbers, although it was sketchy. Her tires were C rated KO2s tires and the incident scared my wife to the point she only runs dedicated snow tires on her vehicle in winter. I run studs on one rig that I take often on 5 hour mountain roads to ski in Canada, ID, WA and MT, but keep Falkens on all of my others as they do great in winter.

Snow traction need snow on snow contact (snow in treads). ATs tend to do decently well with this as long as they are flexible enough to let snow get into the siping. Ice requires soft compound, which is why KO2s suck on ice.

www.popsci.com/story/technology/winter-tire-driving-guide/

"You’ve likely experienced this when packing a snowball or rolling a snowman. Once packed, the snowballs tend to remain pretty sturdy.

Here again, the rubber compound is important, because the tread blocks need to remain flexible at very low temperatures so they can better grab snow. “We like that pattern to open up and trap snow,” Coke explained. “It is important blocks aren’t rigid or they don’t open up and give you that snow to snow grip.”".


KO2s have a strong, stiff rubber that last a long time. Great for most anything BUT ice. I'd hate to hit black ice with them. They also aren't awesome in heavy rain as they are prone to hydroplaning. They are probably the best AT for offroading though, and longevity.

I have had Falkens on ice and they do well for an AT.

The problem is the tire industry lets the 3 peak snowflake designation go on pretty much any modern tire that a manufacturer tests because it only has to perform better than a summer radial. It is a disservice to the consumer.

It would be akin to saying every AWD and 4WD is certified to go offroad because they can all do better than a Geo Metro. Sure, they'll do better, but a Highlander won't do nearly as well as a Land Cruiser.

Consumers and the tire industry should demand that the test provide a rating based on actual snow and ice performance so consumers can have information to make intelligent decisions rather than consumer reviews or people on message boards that have one tire say they do fine in x conditions when they have no real baseline of comparison. Maybe a snowflake system with a 1-10 rating where 1 meets the minimum snowflake rating up to 10 where I assume only the best dedicated winters get 8-10 ratings. Perhaps even bifurcate snow and ice performance where snow is under 1-10 and ice is rated as A-J, so a 10J would be the ultimate in winter traction.

What year and trim level was your wife 4runner?

 

[coleAK]

KO2's on my 200 for a couple Sierra winters...no problem and I had to TRY to break the truck loose on packed Sierra cement. Maybe a bit noisy, but it's part of having a highway capable/go anywhere 4x4.

I was born and raised in Tahoe. Lived there for 25 years. 21 on Kingsbury, 4 in truckee. All the years I was old enough to drive ran dedicated winter tires. I ran original KOs on my 60 in the summer. Almost every one I knew ran winter tires, even on Subarus.

 

[TeCKis300]

I have had both, and the KO2 are fine on snow, horrible on ice. Scary incident in icy storm where my wife almost slid off a road w her 4runner which I have mentioned in many of these threads. Lots of cars, were making it past her. I was able to drive to her with General Grabbers on my 4Runner at the time and pull her to safety. Even airing down I couldn't get traction with the KO2s to get her car home, trying traction control, 4L, etc. A nearby homeowner was nice enough to let us leave it in their driveway. We made it home fine with my rig with the Grabbers, although it was sketchy. Her tires were C rated KO2s tires and the incident scared my wife to the point she only runs dedicated snow tires on her vehicle in winter. I run studs on one rig that I take often on 5 hour mountain roads to ski in Canada, ID, WA and MT, but keep Falkens on all of my others as they do great in winter.

Snow traction need snow on snow contact (snow in treads). ATs tend to do decently well with this as long as they are flexible enough to let snow get into the siping. Ice requires soft compound, which is why KO2s suck on ice.

www.popsci.com/story/technology/winter-tire-driving-guide/

"You’ve likely experienced this when packing a snowball or rolling a snowman. Once packed, the snowballs tend to remain pretty sturdy.

Here again, the rubber compound is important, because the tread blocks need to remain flexible at very low temperatures so they can better grab snow. “We like that pattern to open up and trap snow,” Coke explained. “It is important blocks aren’t rigid or they don’t open up and give you that snow to snow grip.”".


KO2s have a strong, stiff rubber that last a long time. Great for most anything BUT ice. I'd hate to hit black ice with them. They also aren't awesome in heavy rain as they are prone to hydroplaning. They are probably the best AT for offroading though, and longevity.

I have had Falkens on ice and they do well for an AT.

The problem is the tire industry lets the 3 peak snowflake designation go on pretty much any modern tire that a manufacturer tests because it only has to perform better than a summer radial. It is a disservice to the consumer.

It would be akin to saying every AWD and 4WD is certified to go offroad because they can all do better than a Geo Metro. Sure, they'll do better, but a Highlander won't do nearly as well as a Land Cruiser.

Consumers and the tire industry should demand that the test provide a rating based on actual snow and ice performance so consumers can have information to make intelligent decisions rather than consumer reviews or people on message boards that have one tire say they do fine in x conditions when they have no real baseline of comparison. Maybe a snowflake system with a 1-10 rating where 1 meets the minimum snowflake rating up to 10 where I assume only the best dedicated winters get 8-10 ratings. Perhaps even bifurcate snow and ice performance where snow is under 1-10 and ice is rated as A-J, so a 10J would be the ultimate in winter traction.

Well said.

These tires have all been out long enough that there's a body of knowledge to ascertain their characters. None of these modern tires are bad per say, and they often trade focuses. Though there are tires that are distinctly better at some qualities or expand upon the performance envelop. That can't be unexpected as with the passing time, technology, and iteration, that tires improve. It's silly how personally people take offense, as newer tires don't in anyway take away previous achievements. They just move the bar forward.

I've said this awhile ago, it's time for KO3s.

 

[Madtiger]

I've said this awhile ago, it's time for KO3s.

Based on history of KO, KO3 is still (many?) years away. And BFG KO2 is still selling like hotcakes, probably best seller in its class. And based on TireRack PROFESSIONAL reviews, I don’t see anything that really stands above KO2. All the new ATs lack KO2 toughness yet oddly have significant compromises on-road (heavy weight or wet traction).

I rather have BFG take their time torture testing their tires (like what Toyota did with LC200) rather than rush to market in less than two years!

 

[nor_cal_cyclist]

I was born and raised in Tahoe. Lived there for 25 years. 21 on Kingsbury, 4 in truckee. All the years I was old enough to drive ran dedicated winter tires. I ran original KOs on my 60 in the summer. Almost every one I knew ran winter tires, even on Subarus.

I have had a place in the Basin for 20+ yrs (west shore most of it), but only moved there full time since '18. Also spent a good deal of time hauling my kid (and several other team members) around ski areas to get to their races and practice. So far, these are doing about as well as my Raptor did on Duratracs. Maybe luck, or just cautious driving, but not planning to pull the KO2's off my 200 before I need to.

 

[Leelanau]

I went through a couple sets of KO2s on my 2011 Raptor. I’m in Southern Michigan in the freeze/thaw zone and they saw tons of snow and ice over the years. I thought they did fine in snow if you slowed down and drove appropriately for conditions. All tires are scary on black ice; snow tires just a little less so. Snow tires pretty much guarantee that other people in the ditch will be your early warning of icy conditions.

I would argue all wheel drive or full time 4wd is as big of an benefit as snow tires. There’s nothing worse than that feeling when your rear end starts sliding out in your pickup at highway speeds. If the roads weren’t snow covered I was hesitant to run in 4wd in the Raptor. The Land Cruiser is way better on those cold wet situations when you are worried about freezing conditions.

 

[razzyrazz]

Falken Rubitrek, similar performance to Wildpeaks but quieter.

 

[highfructose]

The nice thing about the falkens is you can get them in passenger rated vs only light truck rated for the k02’s…with passenger rated tires you’re not forced to run ultra high psi…interestingly the falken passenger rated 285 70 r17 can technically be run at a higher psi than the light truck load range c k02’s of the same size. Which means you can run, on the road, anywhere between 26 and 54 psi with the falkens. You can only run 40-50 psi with the k02’s.