New rebuilt 2F serious problem!!! Help!!

[ken_79-fj40]

I just got my 2F installed into my truck Thursday. Ran it for maybe 10-15 seconds just to verify I had oil pressure. smoked like crazy and ran rough, but I didn't think much of it considering it's old gas, timing is likely way off, etc. Today I was going to run it for 20 minutes to break in the cam, but I needed to finish filling the cooling system first. So I run out and get some antifreeze and distilled water and pour in 2 gallons on top of the 4 I put in thursday. Still wasn't full. So I run out and get 2 gallons of the premix stuff. Takes both of them. Somethings very wrong here. I pull out the dipstick, and antifreeze comes out. I pull the drain plug, and drain out about 10 gallons of oil and antifreeze. Please someone help me out here. What the hell did I miss that allows you to fill the crankcase with coolant? I've got some serious cash tied up in this motor, and I just filled it with damn water!

 

[Pin_Head]

Bad head gasket, bad oil cooler or cracked block or head. That is all the possibilities I could think of. Start with the oil cooler since that would be easier and cheaper. Maybe you will get lucky.

 

[ken_79-fj40]

It's not the oil cooler, A friend just suggested that and I bypassed it and had the same result. Pour water in the radiator, and a few seconds later it comes out the oil pan. Head was checked for cracks and was fine, this whole rebuild occurred because the old head was cracked and washed down the # 5 cylinder pretty bad. Block was bored but I don't know that it was ever checked for cracks. I would think so considering everything else I had done, but i'm not certain. It has to be something down low. It's like it gets to the water pump and then runs right into the pan. Are there any internal oil/coolant freeze plugs inside the block I may not have replaced that the machine shop might have removed?

Holy crap I think there are. I just checked SOR's website and they show 4 small freeze plugs, looks like 25mm according to NAPA online. I only installed the cam plug and the 5 50mm freeze plugs into the outside of the block. Looks like it's time to push it back into the garage and drop the oil pan. I hope I can figure out where they go and can put them in without pulling the motor. I really feel like a moron.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Subscribing.

This has to be something significant if it drains in that fast and it isn't going in the cylinders.

There are freeze plugs in the top of the head under the valve cover-maybe one of them came loose. You could tell just by pulling the valve cover. Oil cooler would have been my guess too, or a hole in the water jacket on the inside. That sounds too weird.

Shouldn't the rebuilder trouble shoot this for you?

 

[ken_79-fj40]

Well I assembled it, not the machinist. Do the 4 25mm freeze plugs I mentioned go in the head? That could be the issue. I installed the 5 50mm ones in the block and the cam plug, and he put the big one in the back of the head. I wasn't aware there were any others in the head, so that very well could be the problem. I'll go check and respond back in 10 minutes or so.

 

[Pin_Head]

Did you forget to install one of the head bolts inside the valve cover? I have never seen a freeze plug inside the oil chamber.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I have never seen a freeze plug inside the oil chamber.

Top of the head, in between each pair of valves-small freeze plug into the water jacket about 1 inch in diameter. It's right where the FJ60 heads tend to crack. Just looked and confirmed on a spare head in my garage.

 

[ken_79-fj40]

OK all the freeze plugs in the head appear to be fine. I don't think it could be those anyhow, it has to be something down low. My original head cracked in the #5 combustion chamber all the way up into the valve recess. This one was a replacement from cruiserparts. They guarantee them not to be cracked, and this one wasn't but it needed everything else done. Besides the cracked head totally destroying the ring seal on # 5 which started this motor smoking like crazy I never had any other real issues with this motor before the rebuild. It only had 104k on it when I pulled it. I would think if the block were cracked the coolant wouldn't run through it this quick. This has to be something really blatantly wrong that I missed putting it back together. Does the oil cooler tap into any coolant passages in the block, or just the oil passage for the filter?

 

[ken_79-fj40]

OK I just pulled the oil pan off now that the truck is back inside the garage. When I dump water into it it just rains out of the bottom of the block from everywhere. A little more so from towards the back. I also pulled the lower radiator hose after it was done raining from inside the block and water started gushing out, so it may actually be from up higher than I thought. Perhaps I put the head gasket in wrong, but with the tab hanging out the back (correct I believe) it only fits one way. Is it possible that I got a regular F head gasket instead of a 2F one and the coolant passages are different?

Just thought of something else as I sit here drinking the pain away. One of the locating ring things for centering the head was missing when I put it together. I figured once the head bolts were in it would be fine anyhow. Could I be wrong? Also I went down and put some water in it again. It starts leaking at the rear of the block first right over the camshaft. I'm hoping that maybe it's just a wrong head gasket.

 

[kb3gun]

Did you pull off the side cover? There are, I think, 4 freeze plugs between the pushrods.

 

[bsmith123]

relax

Relax and pull the head---it's easy to jump to the worst conclusion I know! But, it was running before and only had the no 5 cyl prob. I wouldn't be too worried yet but you'll probably see it straight away when you get the Head off.

for luck

 

[tlc_4play]

If all the freeze plugs are ok then it can only be a; wrong gasket, cracked head or a cracked block. Could even be that the head wasnt seated or torqued properly.

I agree ~ pull the head, its easy enough to do ~ and all will be revealed.

 

[johmbie]

Take 5 minutes and pull the inspection cover first. Pour water in and see if water enters that chamber. Can't hurt and may save you a new head gasket. If not, you've only lost 5 minutes and some silicone. Then move on to the head. .02

 

[ken_79-fj40]

Did you pull off the side cover? There are, I think, 4 freeze plugs between the pushrods.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner! I didn't sleep worth a damn last night thinking about this. So at about 5am I got up and went down to the garage. I pulled the head off, didn't see anything amiss. So I poured some water in it, and it did the same thing. Pulled off the side cover, and sure enough 4 25mm holes staring me in the face! I feel like a complete moron but at least I found it. Now I need to get a head gasket, some freeze plugs, a few more oil filters, and a s***load of oil. I'm thinking i'm going to have to run it for a few minutes, shut it off, drain it, and repeat a few times to get all the water out of the bottom end. There actually was little bit of water up into the cylinders too. It had actually gone up into the intake through the pcv hose. I knew there was no way it could take that much coolant, I've had the radiator in and out of it probably a dozen times over the last 10 years. But like an idiot I kept adding it until it was full. So if anyone ever wanted to know how much liquid a 2F can hold it's just over 10 gallons! Now it's 7am and time to take a shower and have some breakfast. Tomorrow i'll order parts.

 

[rabid]

nice that you figured it out.

 

[ToyotaGuy88]

 

[BigRedFJ40]

I would also look at the main and rod bearings if you still have the oil pan off. If coolant got in the lower end like that you could potentially wipe out the bearings.... It is worth the time to drop them, wipe them clean, reoil them and them reassemble the whole deal.....

You've gone this far and spent $$$$$ take an extra hour or 2 and do it right so you don't have to pull it again 100 mile down the road

 

[bsmith123]

good deal

Got you up early eh? It's hell not knowing but now you can deal with it. Good news even if it is a lesson learned.

(My Dad used to get on to me about attention to detail or something like that-I don't know I wasn't really listening)

 

[ken_79-fj40]

Yep, oil pan is still off and will be for a few days I think. Cleaned up the head this afternoon, cleaned the mating surfaces, hosed out the oil pan, pulled the block drain and flushed it all out, pulled all the lifters, re-assembly lubed the cam lobes, pushrods and lifters are currently soaking in oil, re-primed the oil pump with fresh oil. I will get under there and pull the caps and re-lube them before I put it back together. I've got 95% of the water out of it i'm sure but I still want to re-lube the bearings. It did run with coolant in the bottom end for a few seconds. Big lesson learned, but i'm sure all will be fine in the end. It's just a bit more time and probably another $100 before the truck will back on the road.

 

[ken_79-fj40]

OK new and way bigger problem. I got it all back together last night at about 11pm. Freeze plugs installed, new head gasket, re-lubed the cam and bearing journals, re-primed the oil pump while turning the crank. So about 2 hours ago I decide to fire it up and break in the cam. It starts instantly, and sounds pretty good, oil pressure is perfect between the 2 normal lines on the stock gauge, so I pull it out of the garage an idle it up to 2k rpm to break in the cam for 20 minutes. It's smoking pretty heavily at first, but I really didn't think much of it. The last motor I built smoked for a few minutes too. About 3 minutes in the smoking goes down significantly, oil pressure still holding steady in the same spot. About a minute or two later it starts to bog a little bit, so I give it a little more gas to get it back up to 2 grand, and it just stops dead. I hit the key and the starter can't even turn it over. So I get out, and pull the dipstick, and besides a few globs of assembly lube from re-lubing the cam lobes, it's dry and smoke comes out the dipstick tube. I pull the oil cap on the valve cover, and more smoke comes out. So I pull all the plugs, and the starter turns it over, but really slow. Then I go get a bucket and pull the drain plug. All 8 quarts of oil drain out no problem. Then I go get my crank socket, extension and breaker bar. I can barely turn it over by hand. So at this point I am extremely pissed, and push it back into the garage with my plow truck. I have not done any investigating yet, but how the hell could 8 quarts of oil leave the crankcase entirely, then flow back down and all drain out. And how the hell could it show good oil pressure, then seize?? I plan on pulling the pan sometime and seeing just how screwed I am, but this seriously doesn't make sense to me. I've got far more into this motor than I can believe trying to build a nice smooth running mild performance 2F and now i'm out of money and have a paperweight.