New member, new to me GX470, new to 4x4 in general!

[VoltaGX]

Hi guys! Thanks for checking out my intro thread.

Name is Mike, and I am completely out of my element here. I have always loved the idea of having a 4x4 to go have some fun off road, but I have never actually went and done it... until now. Lol. I've been driving small, fun cars all my life. I've had almost 40 cars in the last 15 years, but not a single truck or SUV. This changed when I traded one of my fun cars to a friend for his lifted GX470. I'm completely in love with this thing, and I'm kicking myself for waiting this long! We actually already took it out on some easy trails last weekend up near Sedona, AZ to officially welcome it to the family. The truck isn't perfect, but I intend to make it as perfect as I can "in my eyes". Now, this is where I'm beginning to need some opinions or help on two particular issues. I'll explain below.

First, my GX has had the Toytec Ultimate lift kit installed along with some other supporting mods like upgraded UCA. Other than this, I'm not entirely sure all what else was done to it. While the lift is in great condition and the truck itself feels great, I'm wondering why the rear end is sagging a bit. My friend that I got it from mentioned maybe swapping rear springs for better ones, but I'm not sure even where to look for just replacement aftermarket springs or even what size spring to look for. Would a coil spacer do the same job? The GX does not have airbag suspension in the rear anymore.

Secondly, the other issue I'm having is movement in the front end somewhere. The truck just got aligned perfectly, wheel is dead straight cruising on the highway or putting down the street, all good there. My issue comes up when you give it some gas; under load, the steering wheel goes from straight to slightly off centered, and it feels like the truck tramlines just a tiny bit. I was thinking LCAs? Maybe some play in the rack? Any advice or tips as to what to inspect first, or what is common to wear and cause this, would be greatly appreciated.

Anyways, thanks for reading. I'll include a couple pics below.

(First pic will show the rear sag I'm talking about, and the others are from our first adventure.)

 

[GrizzlyClint]

Welcome! Nice rig so far.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Looks nice. Your friend is right about the rear needing coils. I recommend you look at the dobinson cs59-675v or 677v. These are dual rate springs as opposed to linear rate.

If you ride empty most of the time (and I mean empty), then the 675v are considered stock weight but extended long travel.

If you carry some weight in the back all the time, then upgrade the rear springs to 677v. These are considered for like 200 lbs of extra weight or so. They are taller than the 675v so you get too much lift empty like 3”+ or so.

In my opinion, dual rate rear coils are great because they compress less as you add more weight.

In fact, if remember reading posts on here, the toytec rear springs are quite soft so that’s why you might be sagging.

So, just buy new rear springs and try them out. That’s an inexpensive upgrade.

And im not sure what’s up with your acceleration lean. Tires worn out unevenly?

 

[VSPro9]

nice looking rig. as to the pulling, could be a LCA bushing, or maybe tie rod?

 

[burninator]

My in-laws have a house in Sedona and we get down there from time to time. Next time I'll give you some advanced notice and maybe we can get the GXs together

 

[VoltaGX]

My in-laws have a house in Sedona and we get down there from time to time. Next time I'll give you some advanced notice and maybe we can get the GXs together

Just DM me man I’m down any time!

 

[Arailt]

Welcome! Looks great!

Do you how far the front is cranked up? What is your caster from the alignment? I think 2.5-3 is the sweet spot (someone correct me if I'm wrong, my GX doesn't have a list). I lifted my Tacoma 2 inches and had some wandering problems until I had the caster bumped up. Might also be a seized caliper. I had that problem when I first purchased my GX. Caused all kinds of funky steering problems.

 

[VoltaGX]

Welcome! Looks great!

Do you how far the front is cranked up? What is your caster from the alignment? I think 2.5-3 is the sweet spot (someone correct me if I'm wrong, my GX doesn't have a list). I lifted my Tacoma 2 inches and had some wandering problems until I had the caster bumped up. Might also be a seized caliper. I had that problem when I first purchased my GX. Caused all kinds of funky steering problems.

Thank you!

You know, that's a great question. I was initially searching for a way to bring the rear up, but I think I might bring the front down. It was set like this when I got it and the reverse-rake drives me nuts. I wonder if when it's dropped down a touch that my acceleration alignment issue will correct itself or at least get better..? The other idea I had was to hope that a new and revised diff mount (the one that should be replaced on early models) would sort it out. I feel like if that bushing is worn it could cause the same sort of issue.

 

[Arailt]

Thank you!

You know, that's a great question. I was initially searching for a way to bring the rear up, but I think I might bring the front down. It was set like this when I got it and the reverse-rake drives me nuts. I wonder if when it's dropped down a touch that my acceleration alignment issue will correct itself or at least get better..? The other idea I had was to hope that a new and revised diff mount (the one that should be replaced on early models) would sort it out. I feel like if that bushing is worn it could cause the same sort of issue.

It it were me, I would look to lower the front slightly before I added height to the back. The pictures might be deceiving, but it looks like your front is quite high (I assume the tires are 285/70?).

Measure from the center of your hub to the bottom of the fender flare up front and post those results. There are plenty of folks on here who can chime in to compare those results to. Should give you a good indication of how much lift you have and which direction you should go (lowering front vs raising rear).

 

[HomersCanyonero]

It it were me, I would look to lower the front slightly before I added height to the back. The pictures might be deceiving, but it looks like your front is quite high (I assume the tires are 285/70?).

Measure from the center of your hub to the bottom of the fender flare up front and post those results. There are plenty of folks on here who can chime in to compare those results to. Should give you a good indication of how much lift you have and which direction you should go (lowering front vs raising rear).

That’s a really good point to get hub to bottom of fender measurements to see what height you are at. I hadn’t considered that your front might be too high.

This is from my notes comparing where I’m at to the factory heights (as best as I can tell)

Mine hub to fender with 6112s 600# in front and 675V in rear when empty no 3rd row, no cargo, no extra weight:

FD = 22.50”
FP = 22.75”
RD = 23.625
RP = 23.875

Factory oem suspension from center of hub up to bottom lip of fender guesstimates:

FD - 20.25"
FP - 20.25"
RD - 21"
RP - 21”

 

[VoltaGX]

Thank you guys, I will take some measurements tomorrow morning when I go out to work on it and report back.

 

[jiggletits]

New to 4x4! Welcome, it's fun and a never ending learning experience. I used to live in Tucson. There are some great trails in AZ.

A few general tips I'd suggest to get started;

- You don't need 90% of the s*** that is for sale out there. Don't waste your money getting every little gadget/device to hang off the side/roof your truck. Old-school, seasoned 4x4 guys can get just about anywhere in any season with a stock 4x4 with good tires (stock sized), chains and a winch.

- Learn how to use a hi-lift/winch/lockers properly before you ever consider buying those. Super dangerous when used wrong.

- Always carry a rated tow strap, small compressor, tire pressure gauge, plug kit and shovel at minimum

- Learn about your tires. Learn about load ratings, flex, pressures. Lower load rating means more flex (more traction) lighter weight (higher MPG) and smoother driving but easier punctures. Higher load rating is kinda the opposite.

- If you get into recovery gear/winching, learn about those load ratings too.. and do not buy any recovery hardware (bow shakcles, soft shackeles, cables, etc.) that doesn't have a working load limit stamped or stitched into it (don't buy the cast ones that have numbers sticking up as part of the casting, these are batch tested, not tested individually). Learn the difference between working load limit and maximum breaking strength.... your winch pull rating should always be the weakest link... "threading the needle" is not something you want to witness first hand.

- This is worth reiterating... Tires tires tires; pressure pressure pressure. Deflating is the first thing you should do if you need traction on any surface.

For your car specifically;

- Rear springs; The rear of your truck appears to be sagging compared to the front. That can be dangerous for a few reasons; Your front does 80% of the braking, 80% of the handling and 100% of the steering. Additionally, when 4x4'ing you want to know the rear will clear anything the front clears, so having a hair more clearance at the back is better. Loaded with gear, your sag will likely get worse. You want it level or with rake at all times, even when loaded. There are many ways to achieve this. If you want level all the time (overrated IMO) look into pricisely sizing rear springs and using coil-rite airbags for leveling with load. I suggest Dobinson's as they have a lot of options. If you dont mind a slight rake (this is how I usually roll, even with airbags) then get it 1" higher than the front. That's generally good.

- Alignment - if your truck rolls straight on the highway when not gassing it, I don't think it is an alignment or tire pressure issue. Probably just torque steer. These are AWD vehicles and the front diff does what a front diff does... applies more power to one side than it does the other. Rear is the same, but again, the front does 100% of the steering. If your LCAs are bad you would usually hear the movement, it will clunk over bumps and when turning. If they are soft and on their way out you should be able to see that with a large prybar and putting some leverage on them.

 

[Zjohnsonua]

OP, find your local club and get involved. Plenty to learn and enjoy. One of those guys will be familiar with the GX and can likely help you sort out the issues you've described.

I'll second the sentiment around tires - drop pressure to save both them and you. Once deflated they can take a point load with less risk of damage and they add a little more softness to knock down some of the jarring. What pressure to go to? That's a can of worms. I'll go to 20 for mild trails, and 12 for rocks.

Poke around in the recovery section here. Good info in there.

 

[VoltaGX]

New to 4x4! Welcome, it's fun and a never ending learning experience. I used to live in Tucson. There are some great trails in AZ.

A few general tips I'd suggest to get started;

- You don't need 90% of the s*** that is for sale out there. Don't waste your money getting every little gadget/device to hang off the side/roof your truck. Old-school, seasoned 4x4 guys can get just about anywhere in any season with a stock 4x4 with good tires (stock sized), chains and a winch.

- Learn how to use a hi-lift/winch/lockers properly before you ever consider buying those. Super dangerous when used wrong.

- Always carry a rated tow strap, small compressor, tire pressure gauge, plug kit and shovel at minimum

- Learn about your tires. Learn about load ratings, flex, pressures. Lower load rating means more flex (more traction) lighter weight (higher MPG) and smoother driving but easier punctures. Higher load rating is kinda the opposite.

- If you get into recovery gear/winching, learn about those load ratings too.. and do not buy any recovery hardware (bow shakcles, soft shackeles, cables, etc.) that doesn't have a working load limit stamped or stitched into it (don't buy the cast ones that have numbers sticking up as part of the casting, these are batch tested, not tested individually). Learn the difference between working load limit and maximum breaking strength.... your winch pull rating should always be the weakest link... "threading the needle" is not something you want to witness first hand.

- This is worth reiterating... Tires tires tires; pressure pressure pressure. Deflating is the first thing you should do if you need traction on any surface.

For your car specifically;

- Rear springs; The rear of your truck appears to be sagging compared to the front. That can be dangerous for a few reasons; Your front does 80% of the braking, 80% of the handling and 100% of the steering. Additionally, when 4x4'ing you want to know the rear will clear anything the front clears, so having a hair more clearance at the back is better. Loaded with gear, your sag will likely get worse. You want it level or with rake at all times, even when loaded. There are many ways to achieve this. If you want level all the time (overrated IMO) look into pricisely sizing rear springs and using coil-rite airbags for leveling with load. I suggest Dobinsones as they have a lot of options. If you dont mind a slight rake (this is how I usually roll, even with airbags) then get it 1" higher than the front. That's generally good.

- Alignment - if your truck rolls straight on the highway when not gassing it, I don't think it is an alignment or tire pressure issue. Probably just torque steer. These are AWD vehicles and the front diff does what a front diff does... applies more power to one side than it does the other. Rear is the same, but again, the front does 100% of the steering. If your LCAs are bad you would usually hear the movement, it will clunk over bumps and when turning. If they are soft and on their way out you should be able to see that with a large prybar and putting some leverage on them.

Wow thank you for the information! Lots to digest and even more to read more about. I will make sure to get a kit together for next outing.

As far as my personal rig goes, I'm planning to lower the front down so that it's more even both for safety and also appearance. I really dislike it's current "reverse rake". It's got adjustable Toytec coilovers on it already so hopefully it'll be straight forward.

The movement when applying the throttle just seems a little more aggressive than typical AWD torque steer, but it certainly does react like torque steer. I'm hoping I can narrow this down soon before it wears my tires.

 

[VoltaGX]

OP, find your local club and get involved. Plenty to learn and enjoy. One of those guys will be familiar with the GX and can likely help you sort out the issues you've described.

I'll second the sentiment around tires - drop pressure to save both them and you. Once deflated they can take a point load with less risk of damage and they add a little more softness to knock down some of the jarring. What pressure to go to? That's a can of worms. I'll go to 20 for mild trails, and 12 for rocks.

Poke around in the recovery section here. Good info in there.

Noted, thank you! Are there any clubs that aren't Facebook based these days? I recently deleted mine and have no desire to return! Lol.

 

[Zjohnsonua]

Noted, thank you! Are there any clubs that aren't Facebook based these days? I recently deleted mine and have no desire to return! Lol.

Visit the clubhouse section here on mud.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

New to 4x4! Welcome, it's fun and a never ending learning experience. I used to live in Tucson. There are some great trails in AZ.

A few general tips I'd suggest to get started;

- You don't need 90% of the s*** that is for sale out there. Don't waste your money getting every little gadget/device to hang off the side/roof your truck. Old-school, seasoned 4x4 guys can get just about anywhere in any season with a stock 4x4 with good tires (stock sized), chains and a winch.

- Learn how to use a hi-lift/winch/lockers properly before you ever consider buying those. Super dangerous when used wrong.

- Always carry a rated tow strap, small compressor, tire pressure gauge, plug kit and shovel at minimum

- Learn about your tires. Learn about load ratings, flex, pressures. Lower load rating means more flex (more traction) lighter weight (higher MPG) and smoother driving but easier punctures. Higher load rating is kinda the opposite.

- If you get into recovery gear/winching, learn about those load ratings too.. and do not buy any recovery hardware (bow shakcles, soft shackeles, cables, etc.) that doesn't have a working load limit stamped or stitched into it (don't buy the cast ones that have numbers sticking up as part of the casting, these are batch tested, not tested individually). Learn the difference between working load limit and maximum breaking strength.... your winch pull rating should always be the weakest link... "threading the needle" is not something you want to witness first hand.

- This is worth reiterating... Tires tires tires; pressure pressure pressure. Deflating is the first thing you should do if you need traction on any surface.

For your car specifically;

- Rear springs; The rear of your truck appears to be sagging compared to the front. That can be dangerous for a few reasons; Your front does 80% of the braking, 80% of the handling and 100% of the steering. Additionally, when 4x4'ing you want to know the rear will clear anything the front clears, so having a hair more clearance at the back is better. Loaded with gear, your sag will likely get worse. You want it level or with rake at all times, even when loaded. There are many ways to achieve this. If you want level all the time (overrated IMO) look into pricisely sizing rear springs and using coil-rite airbags for leveling with load. I suggest Dobinson's as they have a lot of options. If you dont mind a slight rake (this is how I usually roll, even with airbags) then get it 1" higher than the front. That's generally good.

- Alignment - if your truck rolls straight on the highway when not gassing it, I don't think it is an alignment or tire pressure issue. Probably just torque steer. These are AWD vehicles and the front diff does what a front diff does... applies more power to one side than it does the other. Rear is the same, but again, the front does 100% of the steering. If your LCAs are bad you would usually hear the movement, it will clunk over bumps and when turning. If they are soft and on their way out you should be able to see that with a large prybar and putting some leverage on them.

Wow, good advice. Seems like you letting off a lot of hours of Inter web frustrations! Just teasing you but I like your advice.

It is true that 90% of the stuff is not really needed. I saw the YouTube video of a guy on GX470 with just good tires, a basic lift, a winch, and tools went uphill on dishpan springs (a rocky texhnical trail - maybe black Diamond difficulty).

And he used the winch to get over steep rocky climbs…and the tools to fix his buddies lost rear spring.

When he got home, he trimmed his stock GX470 bumpers for more clearance and to remove the trail damage!

 

[jiggletits]

Wow, good advice. Seems like you letting off a lot of hours of Inter web frustrations! Just teasing you but I like your advice.

It is true that 90% of the stuff is not really needed. I saw the YouTube video of a guy on GX470 with just good tires, a basic lift, a winch, and tools went uphill on dishpan springs (a rocky texhnical trail - maybe black Diamond difficulty).

And he used the winch to get over steep rocky climbs…and the tools to fix his buddies lost rear spring.

When he got done, he trimmed his stock bumpers for more clearance and to remove the trail damage!

Ha, some interweb, some hands-on training from the Camel Trophy/7P guys, and some of my own monkeying around.