Solved - New 200 owner - sometimes long crank before start? (1 Viewer)

[riffman12]

Hey all - I'm a recent converted member from the 100 Series side of the forums. I've owned an one 80 series, three 100 series, and I just bought a 2014 LX570. I'm excited to get familiar with the new platform.

The vehicle I bought has 130k miles and a well-documented service history from Lexus.

I'm loving it so far, but the only issue I've noticed is that once in a while, I'll push the start button and it will crank way longer than normal. On a normal start I'd estimate the starter spins ~3-4 times before the engine fires. Every now and then it will spin 7-10 times then it will fire and start totally normally.

No CEL codes. Fuel pump recall was done at 103k miles.

I tried searching, but I can only see this issue happening with 80 and 100 series. Any ideas why this is happening? Immobilizer issue perhaps? (key battery is new)

Edit: turns out it was an air leak in the intake manifold gasket causing a big vacuum leak. Fixed now.

 

[GrouchyTech]

Sounds fuel-related from your description.

Is it running normally other than the long crank? How is full throttle, do you have power? How much fuel does the gauge show and when did you last put gas in it? What type of fuel did you use? (…are you certain?)

If you crank it within a few minutes of turning it off does it ever long crank? Or is it after sitting for a longer period?

 

[riffman12]

Sounds fuel-related from your description.

Is it running normally other than the long crank? How is full throttle, do you have power? How much fuel does the gauge show and when did you last put gas in it? What type of fuel did you use? (…are you certain?)

If you crank it within a few minutes of turning it off does it ever long crank? Or is it after sitting for a longer period?

Thanks for the reply!

Yes running 100% normal other than the occasional long crank. Plenty of power, no hesitation, no warning lights.

I filled the tank up with 91 from a Shell station a couple of days ago and I show just over half a tank on the gauge.

It seems to only do it after sitting for an extended period of time - but I don't have a ton of data points to back that up. It's only done it twice (both in the last 2 days).

The only other thing I can think is that the owner gave me two key fobs. One had clearly been used as the main one, and one that was brand new (probably the spare they kept in a drawer). I've been using the brand new one with a new battery. Is there a chance the ECU isn't quite "used" to it and engaging the immobilizer briefly or something?

 

[bloc]

Is there a chance the ECU isn't quite "used" to it and engaging the immobilizer briefly or something?

Shouldn't matter. If it didn't like the key it wouldn't allow it to start at all.

And to be clear all of these long cranks have been since you last filled up?

 

[riffman12]

And to be clear all of these long cranks have been since you last filled up?

yes that's correct

 

[bloc]

yes that's correct

I’d want to get that fuel out of there and reassess on a fresh tank.

 

[riffman12]

I’d want to get that fuel out of there and reassess on a fresh tank.

yeah that's fair. I have to do a pretty long drive this evening to pick up some wheels, so hopefully I'll burn off the gas if that's the issue.

Curious to hear if any others have experience this? My mechanic said it could be something with a crank sensor too...

 

[dudemancool1904]

Only input I could provide is sometimes I’ll leave my truck at airport parking and pull the starter relay. If it’s more than a day or two I notice the first crank is pretty long. Maybe the ecu is not getting the signal to prime?

 

[riffman12]

so today I was driving and it was pretty hot out like ~95 degrees. I suddenly got a P0171 CEL code with the trac light flashing. I had about half a tank when it happened. I cleared the code and topped up the tank with gas and the CEL didn't come back.

I'm assuming this is related to my occasional long cranks.

My brain is telling me it's fuel pump related, but the fuel pump was changed under the recall around 20k miles ago. There's no way it's already going bad is there?

Anyone else had this code and solved it? I'll start by cleaning the MAF but I doubt that would cause this.

 

[vipergrhd]

Does it run rough on a cold start? If there is a way you could rent a fuel pump tester to hook up overnight, I think you are losing prime in your fuel line. There is a good chance your pump is draining overnight or an injector is leaking. Just a hunch.

 

[GrouchyTech]

Does it run rough on a cold start? If there is a way you could rent a fuel pump tester to hook up overnight, I think you are losing prime in your fuel line. There is a good chance your pump is draining overnight or an injector is leaking. Just a hunch.

This.

OP: You need a new pump. Don’t worry that it was recently replaced, sometimes that’s how it goes. A P0171 takes 2 drive cycles to set, so you’ll be likely to see that again next time you drive.

Get a new OEM fuel pump assembly, new o-ring, and new lock ring. Drop the tank, swap the new pump, get on with life and enjoy your LX.

If you have a shop/dealer do the job the labor should be about 2.5 hours (or less). I can normally swap an LC pump in a little over 30 minutes if the EVAP lines aren’t being too fussy. Oh, and if you can bring it to the shop with under 1/2 tank of fuel you’ll be a hero.

 

[bloc]

This.

OP: You need a new pump. Don’t worry that it was recently replaced, sometimes that’s how it goes. A P0171 takes 2 drive cycles to set, so you’ll be likely to see that again next time you drive.

Get a new OEM fuel pump assembly, new o-ring, and new lock ring. Drop the tank, swap the new pump, get on with life and enjoy your LX.

If you have a shop/dealer do the job the labor should be about 2.5 hours (or less). I can normally swap an LC pump in a little over 30 minutes if the EVAP lines aren’t being too fussy. Oh, and if you can bring it to the shop with under 1/2 tank of fuel you’ll be a hero.

Can you speak to the prevalence of the fuel pump controller failing on 200s and maybe other Toyota products? I know we’ve seen at least two in this section.

 

[GrouchyTech]

Can you speak to the prevalence of the fuel pump controller failing on 200s and maybe other Toyota products? I know we’ve seen at least two in this section.

I’ve replaced far more pumps than pump control modules—regardless of model.

 

[bloc]

I’ve replaced far more pumps than pump control modules—regardless of model.

Interesting to hear it’s not just 200s. I remember the process of diagnosing the couple that popped up on here being quite a challenge.

Any correlation with corrosion on the module replacements?

 

[riffman12]

This.

OP: You need a new pump. Don’t worry that it was recently replaced, sometimes that’s how it goes. A P0171 takes 2 drive cycles to set, so you’ll be likely to see that again next time you drive.

Get a new OEM fuel pump assembly, new o-ring, and new lock ring. Drop the tank, swap the new pump, get on with life and enjoy your LX.

If you have a shop/dealer do the job the labor should be about 2.5 hours (or less). I can normally swap an LC pump in a little over 30 minutes if the EVAP lines aren’t being too fussy. Oh, and if you can bring it to the shop with under 1/2 tank of fuel you’ll be a hero.

ok thanks this is helpful. I'll likely take it to my indy Toyota mechanic who I trust and have him do it.

do we know why these pumps can go bad so quickly? That seems very un-Toyota to have a pump fail that quickly. Makes me wonder if I've got a clogged filter or something putting more strain on the unit.

is it safe to drive for a few days until I can get the pump changed? I imagine these motors will just pull timing in a lean condition to prevent pinging, but I'd rather not put a hole in a piston

 

[riffman12]

as an update to anyone else who has this issue, my mechanic just notified me they found a leak in the intake manifold gasket to be the cause of the CEL. Basically a big vacuum leak after the MAF.

I'm hoping that's also the cause of the occasional longer crank on startup.

Previous owner had the timing cover leak fixed recently and I suspect they damaged the gasket doing that service.

 

[GrouchyTech]

I’m curious what your fuel trims look like before and after the intake gasket repair.

A leaky intake can definitely give a P0171, but my money is on something else causing the long crank. I think you would see the bank 1 lean DTC (0171) -before- experiencing a long crank issue.

 

[riffman12]

I’m curious what your fuel trims look like before and after the intake gasket repair.

A leaky intake can definitely give a P0171, but my money is on something else causing the long crank. I think you would see the bank 1 lean DTC (0171) -before- experiencing a long crank issue.

Here’s what they put in the report

“While spraying carburetor cleaner at the base of the intake we are able to drop long term fuel trim down from +30 to +14 at idle. At 1500rpm long term fuel trim when down to 0. Which means that no compensating fuel was needed to keep the fuel trim correct.”