need advice and options on engines

[thrashattack]

So i have a 1979 toyota 4x4 pickup with the original 20r i like it but it getting tired.
it was a webber and a header. i just threw on a new head gasket but i figure may its time to replace it. So do i stick with a 20r or do i go with 22r. I like the fact that the 20r is solid but a few more horse power would be nice. im running 4.37 gears and 33s . so what does every think?

 

[missouriman]

4.3 with auto, adapter to dual toyota cases, longs 30 spline axle's in front.

 

[4rnr]

So i have a 1979 toyota 4x4 pickup with the original 20r i like it but it getting tired.
it was a webber and a header. i just threw on a new head gasket but i figure may its time to replace it. So do i stick with a 20r or do i go with 22r. I like the fact that the 20r is solid but a few more horse power would be nice. im running 4.37 gears and 33s . so what does every think?

22re.

 

[Combat Chuck]

4.3 with auto, adaptor to dual toyota cases, longs 30 spline axle's in front.

5VZ - I'm with you so far...
Adapter - yeah, I like the R1AF, makes sense
Dual cases - yeah...
Longs and such - okay
Auto - I think I just threw up a little bit in the back of my mouth

Nothing personal, just not a slushbox fan.

My 0.02, (besides the auto commentary) is go 22R, with an L52, should be a pretty direct swap, if you feel saucey enough, have your 20R head rebuild, ported and polished and put that on the 22R, get some more powa!

 

[4rnr]

5VZ - I'm with you so far...
Adapter - yeah, I like the R1AF, makes sense
Dual cases - yeah...
Longs and such - okay
Auto - I think I just threw up a little bit in the back of my mouth

Nothing personal, just not a slushbox fan.

My 0.02, (besides the auto commentary) is go 22R, with an L52, should be a pretty direct swap, if you feel saucey enough, have your 20R head rebuild, ported and polished and put that on the 22R, get some more powa!

he suggested a GM 4.3 not a 5vz 3.4.

I will never wheel a manual....

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

I will never wheel a manual....

Pfft! (Girl!)

Get a 1VD-FTD and be done with it!

 

[Hilux]

uh, 20/22R Hybrid?



EDIT: A cam and a carb adapter and I don't think power will be a problem again.


My 84 4x4 bucket of bolts held together with rust absolutely flies!

It does have stock gears, steelies and 235's tho. It's got a flatbed and it is so light I hate driving it in the rain. But I'm not too sure that's got a lot to do with it.

In the summer it seems to run better on a 160 deg thermostat and mid-grade. But that might be a 2 core radiator issue.

Here lately it's gotten too cold so I put a 180 back in and just made a 100 miler with it on high test and it rocked! Had tons of high end power.

red-line limited...

 

[missouriman]

well, 4.3 is a very proven motor, easy to wire up.
toy cases, well every one knows.
longs... enough said.
auto, I would like to try one. now that I am learning how they work. I think you could build up a very nice one.

manuals work fine. but I would like to try the auto for snow runs.

jason runs auto's in all the buggies that he builds.

I just don't know if you can stop a 210:1 transfercase reduction with the brakes. I think you would have to shift into neutral

 

[Combat Chuck]

he suggested a GM 4.3 not a 5vz 3.4.

I will never wheel a manual....

ohhh, hmm, maybe that's what my gag-reflex was all about, Chevota-stench.

I've heard among some circles that wheeling with a clutch is harder, but there isn't a power in the 'verse that'll make me ever own another auto, especially a GM auto.

 

[Hilux]

There is hardly no overdrive in a Toyota manual trans.

If I was going to swap a non-Toyota motor, I'd think hard about swapping the tranny as well.


Might as well take advantage of a lower 1st and deeper OD is all I'm saying...


Or, just leave it alone. That's the most economical modification.

Conversion bellhousings are not cheap.

 

[Combat Chuck]

There is hardly no overdrive in a Toyota manual trans.

I'm unhappy the that score my own self

 

[liljlandon]

Auto - I think I just threw up a little bit in the back of my mouth

Nothing personal, just not a slushbox fan.

Ever wheeled one? a non a soccer mom one? I have wheeled in numerous full size heavy chevys, toyotas, and jeeps. I enjoy the selectablility of a manual and the clutch... However, I love the ability to put it in park, or for it to shift itself up. If my 22RTBI had the powar! to push a 'slushbox', i would in a heart beat. But maybe im lazy

Im not into cross breeding, but a 4.3 TBI is a super reliable motor (theres a s*** load on the road, many i have seen pushing 300k+! and two my parents drive pushing 250k!) Parts are cheap and abundant, and a monkey could follow the color coded wire scheme... The transmissions are reliable (lower 1st, higher OD is a good side effect). and the adapters are abundant. The 2.28 of the stock Toyota tcase is lower than the stock gm, and for s***s and giggles you could through in a set of 4.7s in the tcase. I think you would be more than happy with the 4.3/auto/stock gearing/33's.

As a DD its hard to beat a 3.4 or 4.3 and auto. Those 4.37s will feel a little low for the v6 IMO. Most people run 4.10's and 35's with the 4.3L around here.

But, its hard to beat the reliability of the Toyota motor if left semi stock!

 

[Combat Chuck]

I will say I miss the gear flexibility and park function of an auto, those features were nice, however, I don't miss:
- the extreme inefficiency, (the Ranger gets 14 MPG if there's a tailwind, the Olds got 18 MPG, worse mileage than my mom's V6 extended-cab F150, and my uncle Einar's V8 F150, he gets 22!)
- dumping hundreds of bucks a year in fluid into some poorly-thought-out tube located in the dumbest possible location (Seriously, there was no fill cap, and the dipstick was practically under an exhaust manifold.)
- having no lock-up,
- no range of selection (1 was stupid low, and 2 was stupid high, neither made for good hill descent, and the only other options were Reverse, Neutral, and Park),
- that gut-wrenching feeling you get when you stab the pedal, and the motor roars, but the drivetrain is still in "I'm following a Volvo" mode,
- having no ability to use the engine to provide braking, requiring annual replacement of brake pads and rotors, which being a GM product, were nary impossible to do.
- Finally, I like to be able to just throw my truck in gear, and glide down a hill without needing to brake

These are all the reasons I bought The Mule, and vowed to never willingly own an auto again.

Nonetheless, even though I mostly drove 2WD Oldsmobile and a 4X4 Ranger, I still thought they were the hottest thing ever until I got the Toyota Bug. (I also wheeled the crap out of them in my own way, Front-wheel-drive mudding is pretty fun, if a little insane).

 

[pappy]

For something easy ... 22re.

For a little more challenge ... 3RZ.

 

[4rnr]

I will say I miss the gear flexibility and park function of an auto, those features were nice, however, I don't miss:
- the extreme inefficiency, (the Ranger gets 14 MPG if there's a tailwind, the Olds got 18 MPG, worse mileage than my mom's V6 extended-cab F150, and my uncle Einar's V8 F150, he gets 22!)
- dumping hundreds of bucks a year in fluid into some poorly-thought-out tube located in the dumbest possible location (Seriously, there was no fill cap, and the dipstick was practically under an exhaust manifold.)
- having no lock-up,
- no range of selection (1 was stupid low, and 2 was stupid high, neither made for good hill descent, and the only other options were Reverse, Neutral, and Park),
- that gut-wrenching feeling you get when you stab the pedal, and the motor roars, but the drivetrain is still in "I'm following a Volvo" mode,
- having no ability to use the engine to provide braking, requiring annual replacement of brake pads and rotors, which being a GM product, were nary impossible to do.
- Finally, I like to be able to just throw my truck in gear, and glide down a hill without needing to brake

These are all the reasons I bought The Mule, and vowed to never willingly own an auto again.

Nonetheless, even though I mostly drove 2WD Oldsmobile and a 4X4 Ranger, I still thought they were the hottest thing ever until I got the Toyota Bug. (I also wheeled the crap out of them in my own way, Front-wheel-drive mudding is pretty fun, if a little insane).

Sounds like you had the wrong auto...

I will admit that if I were running a 22re Id prolly be forced into a stick so I could preserve some power. But with a 5zve and a A340f I love it. Im running 4.88's and (see my sig) and I just got 20.3 mpg on the highway! (though my usuall is around 17-18mpg)

I have TONS of engine braking. My final gear ratio (before the TC is factored in) is about 186:1. in the lowest gear I have to worry about going too slow down super steep hill. Ive had the truck slide down hills in low/low/low that were too steep. But even on the steepest hills that cause people tons of problems I can put it in low gear and get out and, go for a walk, have some lunch, make some phone calls and then go back it might be at the bottom of the hill by then. under most conditions I can stop the truck in 186:1 with a 650 rpm idle. But sometimes I cant. Doesnt really matter though I just bump it into neutral....belive me I have the time!!

Its nice to have sergical precision on steep off camber nasty climbs, where I can start and stop. As well as nice to not have to worry about shifting when powering up a hill.

But the auto vs manual debate is super old and played out! And I really do understand both...I just prefer autos.

 

[Combat Chuck]

Sounds like you had the wrong auto...

I will admit that if I were running a 22re Id prolly be forced into a stick so I could preserve some power. But with a 5zve and a A340f I love it. Im running 4.88's and (see my sig) and I just got 20.3 mpg on the highway! (though my usuall is around 17-18mpg)

I have TONS of engine braking. My final gear ratio (before the TC is factored in) is about 186:1. in the lowest gear I have to worry about going too slow down super steep hill. Ive had the truck slide down hills in low/low/low that were too steep. But even on the steepest hills that cause people tons of problems I can put it in low gear and get out and, go for a walk, have some lunch, make some phone calls and then go back it might be at the bottom of the hill by then. under most conditions I can stop the truck in 186:1 with a 650 rpm idle. But sometimes I cant. Doesnt really matter though I just bump it into neutral....belive me I have the time!!

Its nice to have sergical precision on steep off camber nasty climbs, where I can start and stop. As well as nice to not have to worry about shifting when powering up a hill.

But the auto vs manual debate is super old and played out! And I really do understand both...I just prefer autos.

Very good points, and yes, I'm pretty sure I've been using the wrong auto, the ones you describe seem lightyears ahead of anything I've used.

Like you said, the debate is paid out, people are gonna drive what people are gonna drive. I'm just frustrated by people who think "well, shucks, I got an automatic, I have no need to bother with even learning a stick." and the the auto companies seem to cater to them.
I'm also convinced that automatics are a conspiracy between car and parts manufacturers, forcing people into wasting money on torque converters, valve bodies, and brake pads, but I'm crazy like that.

 

[4rnr]

Very good points, and yes, I'm pretty sure I've been using the wrong auto, the ones you describe seem lightyears ahead of anything I've used.

Like you said, the debate is paid out, people are gonna drive what people are gonna drive. I'm just frustrated by people who think "well, shucks, I got an automatic, I have no need to bother with even learning a stick." and the the auto companies seem to cater to them.
I'm also convinced that automatics are a conspiracy between car and parts manufacturers, forcing people into wasting money on torque converters, valve bodies, and brake pads, but I'm crazy like that.

Maybe only a little crazy...

I also hate how most people think autos are better for everything...they are simply different tools...pick the right tool for the job. I like autos for wheeling, but I drove hundreds of miles to find a super clean 3rd gen 4runner stick shift. I love driving stick on the street...down shifting....engine braking...to me autos can be scary as s*** in the snow! Ive spent way to much time fish tailing to a stop with an auto, or "abs'ing" through red lights! Its way nicer to grab second and feather the brakes....then again I do drive like im in the WRC, in crowded ass chicagoland when it snows....so maybe its me.

Ive wheeled stick and not only do I suck at it, but my body paid dearly...Its prolly just something I need to get used to and crawl gears are more of a necessity...but I cant justify a stick over an auto. the only advantage i could think of is the "get of jail free card"/clutch, when the nose starts to lift on steep climbs, or in some roll situations...but the pro's just dont out weigh the cons.

 

[Combat Chuck]

everything's got its own unique advantages, and disadvantages, that's for true. There's nothing like not having to do anything to get your junk on the road, but the feeling from a really well clutched and perfectly shifted corner at speed- that's irreplaceable!

 

[4rnr]

Im sensing sufficient de-railment in this thread.

 

[Combat Chuck]

you're right, back O/T:

Cram a CAT motor in there, the extra power will work wonders, and all the snapped axles and busted thirds will make for fun conversation!