Mystery coolant loss - put on your thinking caps....
- Thread starter IdahoDoug
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landtank said:
I am in the process of replacing the head on a Probe that did just this. Car was donated with the diagnoses of cracked head. Lots of coolant in the cylinders. We pressurized and found the same thing so we pulled the head. The intake was full of coolant. Pulling the throttle body found silicate deposits in the throttle body. New throttle body is $1000 so we will be running without heated throttle body.
I tend to agree that it's a cap, though.
Both are simple diagnostics. Replace the cap and pull the throttle body.
Hey Doug;
There has been lots of great advice, but the bottom line is that you are basically on your own with something like this. If it were my truck I certainly would NOT pull the head quite yet! Can you borrow or rent a cooling system pressure tester? Call your local NAPA to see if they have one. You can buy a Stant kit with the Toyota rad and cap adaptors for about $120. Or I can ship you mine and you should get it in a day......
Pump up the cooling system to 15 psi and look and listen for leaks - it is remarkable how much easier it is to do this way, than with a hot, running engine. I have found leaks just by hearing a hiss or dripping sound. A stethoscope with an 18 inch section of rigid tubing helps here (a bit of steel brake line works great) - you can insert it into tiny crevices for a good listen.
If you don't see any external leaks, pull the TB partially off and make sure it isn't leaking as landtank suggested. Leave all the hoses connected and just let it rest there while you pump up the system.
If that shows negative, pull the exhaust manifold and do the same test. If either of these areas is leaking the amount you describe, you should _easily_ see the leak.
Hopefully the leak will be an easy and cheap one to fix, but if not, at least you will know for sure before you pull the head. I hate going into an expensive repair just "thinking" that is where the problem is. If I know definitively I feel a little better about the job.
PM me and let me know if you want my tester.
John Davies
Spokane WA
There has been lots of great advice, but the bottom line is that you are basically on your own with something like this. If it were my truck I certainly would NOT pull the head quite yet! Can you borrow or rent a cooling system pressure tester? Call your local NAPA to see if they have one. You can buy a Stant kit with the Toyota rad and cap adaptors for about $120. Or I can ship you mine and you should get it in a day......
Pump up the cooling system to 15 psi and look and listen for leaks - it is remarkable how much easier it is to do this way, than with a hot, running engine. I have found leaks just by hearing a hiss or dripping sound. A stethoscope with an 18 inch section of rigid tubing helps here (a bit of steel brake line works great) - you can insert it into tiny crevices for a good listen.
If you don't see any external leaks, pull the TB partially off and make sure it isn't leaking as landtank suggested. Leave all the hoses connected and just let it rest there while you pump up the system.
If that shows negative, pull the exhaust manifold and do the same test. If either of these areas is leaking the amount you describe, you should _easily_ see the leak.
Hopefully the leak will be an easy and cheap one to fix, but if not, at least you will know for sure before you pull the head. I hate going into an expensive repair just "thinking" that is where the problem is. If I know definitively I feel a little better about the job.
PM me and let me know if you want my tester.
John Davies
Spokane WA
- Thread starter
- #24
John,
Thanks! I was thinking a pressure test would be a good idea as well since at the moment I can't get the thing to leak out of a suspect hose. Trip after trip the paper towel taped around it is dry, yet there's pink crusty buildup there. I'd think a pressure test would confirm it. Heck, no need to ship your tester as I could just run over to your place for the half hour it would take if I can't find one to borrow locally. I'm in Spokane a couple times a month.
DougM
Thanks! I was thinking a pressure test would be a good idea as well since at the moment I can't get the thing to leak out of a suspect hose. Trip after trip the paper towel taped around it is dry, yet there's pink crusty buildup there. I'd think a pressure test would confirm it. Heck, no need to ship your tester as I could just run over to your place for the half hour it would take if I can't find one to borrow locally. I'm in Spokane a couple times a month.
DougM
IdahoDoug said:
Well, I hate to say this.... but if there is red crusty stuff, there is your leak, or at least A leak. Fix that one and see if you are still consuming coolant before getting too bent out of shape.
If you want to drop by, PM me and we can work something out, but the truck needs to be pretty well cold to do a test without puking coolant everywhere. If you just want to drop by and borrow the tester for a while you are welcome to it. I live 5 miles north of downtown Spokane.
John
Doug I have to tell you about my coolant smell in my exhaust issues, to hopefully ease your mind. About a month after I bought my 80(last fall sometime) I noticed a sweet (coolant-ish) smell from the exhaust. I did the bubble test and kept a VERY close eye on my coolant level for a few days. I then did a complete flush and fill and got out all the brown fluid and gray gunk and filled with toyota red and distilled. That was 11-12 months ago. I continue to have a sweet smell from the exhaust, but I have no bubbles in my overflow, am losing NO coolant and my oil level is consistant. My coolant is also just the same color it was when I put it in last year. If I had any indication other than the smell that something was up, I would have some tests run. I have also noticed a couple of other cruisers that smelled the same. As it is, I don't put much stock in the smell. I could eat my words some day with a head gasket repair, but for now, all seems well.
Clearly this is a hole in the rear heater line dripping into the cats and running out the back of the tailpipe 
Sounds like the worst, HG or block fun to come...sorry!
Sounds like the worst, HG or block fun to come...sorry!
I would counter that the nose is a good analytical tool and should be trusted. I have on two occasions smelt a coolant weep (not a leak) before I saw it or the coolant level dropped. Hot sweet coolant is very strong smelling and maybe this is why Josh can smell a little in his exhaust even though there is no noticeable loss. If I smelt coolant in my exhaust I would keep a very close watch on my HG as this may be the beginning of a micro fissure opening up.
- Thread starter
- #31
Josh,
Thanks for stepping forward and admitting something I didn't have the guts to. That you've sniffed other 80s tailpipes. Because I gave the neighbor's 40th tailpipe a quick sniff while it was shut off, and indeed it smelled the same as my 97 - a faint sweetish smell that seems stronger when there's condensation in the tailpipe. Makes sense as moist air carries scent much better. My 93 does not smell the same and I can only assume it's because of the different cat setup and/or absence of OBDII changes to emissions.
Didn't want to get into this, but Josh gave me the courage to confess. I loves ya Josh - you 'da man...(sniff, sniff).............
Can't believe I fessed up to that one and no, the neighbor did not see as my wife and she were yakking about the garden. I rejoined the conversation with a black ring around my nose....
DougM
Thanks for stepping forward and admitting something I didn't have the guts to. That you've sniffed other 80s tailpipes. Because I gave the neighbor's 40th tailpipe a quick sniff while it was shut off, and indeed it smelled the same as my 97 - a faint sweetish smell that seems stronger when there's condensation in the tailpipe. Makes sense as moist air carries scent much better. My 93 does not smell the same and I can only assume it's because of the different cat setup and/or absence of OBDII changes to emissions.
Didn't want to get into this, but Josh gave me the courage to confess. I loves ya Josh - you 'da man...(sniff, sniff).............
Can't believe I fessed up to that one and no, the neighbor did not see as my wife and she were yakking about the garden. I rejoined the conversation with a black ring around my nose....
DougM
Another one here with sweet smelling exhaust.
I haven't checked the wife's to see if her's is the same, but mine's definitely sweet. Somewhat coolantl-like, but I don't seem to be losing coolant, nor have I been able to find any kind of leak.
I'll be keeping an eye on mine...and watching out for any info here regarding this.
I haven't checked the wife's to see if her's is the same, but mine's definitely sweet. Somewhat coolantl-like, but I don't seem to be losing coolant, nor have I been able to find any kind of leak.
I'll be keeping an eye on mine...and watching out for any info here regarding this.
Doug,
From Alvaro's "New Exhaust" thread.
They also got rid of the factory bracket that was holding the cats from the back. The bolts that make up the little rubber braket were hitting the rear heater hoses. NO GOOD.
Losing a gallon of coolant a month is the key data point for me. That is a LOT of pink stuff that you would be seeing all over the underside of the truck and on the ground. I have a bad seal on a water neck that leaks at most 1/2 pint every 2 or 3 months. There is pink junk sprayed everywhere and I believe you would clearly see the traces of 3 gallons. That reminds me, this coming weekend would be a good time to replace that gasket.
-B-
From Alvaro's "New Exhaust" thread.
They also got rid of the factory bracket that was holding the cats from the back. The bolts that make up the little rubber braket were hitting the rear heater hoses. NO GOOD.
Losing a gallon of coolant a month is the key data point for me. That is a LOT of pink stuff that you would be seeing all over the underside of the truck and on the ground. I have a bad seal on a water neck that leaks at most 1/2 pint every 2 or 3 months. There is pink junk sprayed everywhere and I believe you would clearly see the traces of 3 gallons. That reminds me, this coming weekend would be a good time to replace that gasket.
-B-
Don't take comfort from the complacency of the guys who's exhausts have the sweet smell of coolant. I don't want to be alarmist but I have a good nose for coolant - as I said before I have sniffed out two leaks in my time long before they became visible, and my exhaust does not smell of anything except a faint carbon sooty smell. For my 2 cents I believe anyone here who's exhaust smells of coolant has a HG failure brewing and they need consider a head job.
Doug I can not remember - have you upgraded your head gasket? If you have not and if you don't work this thing out by Friday I suggest you get Dan send you the HG kit.
Mike
Doug I can not remember - have you upgraded your head gasket? If you have not and if you don't work this thing out by Friday I suggest you get Dan send you the HG kit.
Mike
- Thread starter
- #38
MHS,
Starting to look like sage advice, guys. I found a bit of water emulsion on the bottom of the oil cap this evening. By coincidence, we're in that time of year here where condensation is most likely with huge day/night temperature swings, plus this is the short trip around town car. But in light of things, it may be another death knell. Ding, ding.....
Got some dye today to put in the coolant. Dan's got some hoses on the way. I put the dye in after the new hoses are on, and later I'll bring it to a buddy's shop who has the expensive UV light and special glasses that will apparently show any external leaks from a mile off. The new hoses will stop the external seep to my satisfaction so any new leakage will be clear.
Before then, I will have rented or borrowed a cooling system pressure tester to see what I can see. Might pull the plugs as suggested above while this test is going on as it will surely put coolant on the piston tops if it's a head gasket. And I should have the sample results back from Blackstone telling me if I have coolant in the oil.
This is on the 97 I bought this spring, so I assume it's the original head gasket.
I know this testing may be for naught, but I simply need some hard data before I open the engine.
Crazy stuff...
Starting to look like sage advice, guys. I found a bit of water emulsion on the bottom of the oil cap this evening. By coincidence, we're in that time of year here where condensation is most likely with huge day/night temperature swings, plus this is the short trip around town car. But in light of things, it may be another death knell. Ding, ding.....
Got some dye today to put in the coolant. Dan's got some hoses on the way. I put the dye in after the new hoses are on, and later I'll bring it to a buddy's shop who has the expensive UV light and special glasses that will apparently show any external leaks from a mile off. The new hoses will stop the external seep to my satisfaction so any new leakage will be clear.
Before then, I will have rented or borrowed a cooling system pressure tester to see what I can see. Might pull the plugs as suggested above while this test is going on as it will surely put coolant on the piston tops if it's a head gasket. And I should have the sample results back from Blackstone telling me if I have coolant in the oil.
This is on the 97 I bought this spring, so I assume it's the original head gasket.
I know this testing may be for naught, but I simply need some hard data before I open the engine.
Crazy stuff...
check the small hoses going into the left most rear side of the block. These do leak but only after the motor has been running for sometime. I had the same issue, and only discovered it when I left the LC running then bam...it started leaking...
- Thread starter
- #40
They've all seeped and leaked a bit and been attended to. Those are the ones that troubled me once on the 93 as well. A complete set of hoses from Cdan solved that, but on the 97 I couldn't resolve it. So, a couple new hoses from Dan will be here soon and eliminate the grey area of coolant loss. If it stops, excellent. If not, then it's an internal leak - bummer. Either way, I've got to resolve this fast, so proceeding with the other tests.
DougM
DougM