mysterious transmission/transfer case/clutch issue H55F (1 Viewer)

[dcruiser666]

So I just finished up a 1hdt swap on my 70 and I attempted to drive it for the first time over the weekend. There is no engagement of any gears although I can shift easily with or without using the clutch pedal and the engine is running. It's exactly the same behavior as the transfer case being in neutral. I have played with the t-case shift linkage, everything seems to be in order there and you can hear/feel engagement. I haven't been able to find a similar problem on here or elsewhere on the internet, hoping someone here has experienced this before and knows where to look. I'm starting to rip my hair out.

So far I have taken the slave off to see if I would no longer be able to shift without using the clutch pedal and engine running - no change.
I have filmed the slave pushing the shift fork when using the pedal - I'm getting ~1.5 inches of movement
I have shifted through the transfer case gears and filmed from underneath the make sure everything is moving as it should - it appears to be.

Suspicions
- The transmissions were taken apart and reassembled to install the correct input shaft, I did not do this work but maybe it's something internal with the transfer case/transmission.
- I re-used the 3B bearing retainer (I think now I need to switch this part no matter what? I didn't initially see that these are different part numbers, if I need to do this the transmission has to come off anyway and this scenario will change) - there seems to be more than acceptable slop in the shift fork and throw out bearing riding on that shaft, but I can't work out how that could cause this issue. There is also no sound coming from the bell housing or any minor changes in rpm that could indicate some minor resistance at the clutch
- I may not have installed the clutch disc in the correct orientation, but I should not be able to shift through the gears at all if that were the case, right?
- maybe I unknowingly broke the clutch disc when I mated it to the engine, but I would expect some loud ugly noises running the engine like this

To summarize the behavior, it is acting like the transfer case is in neutral or the clutch is permanently released. There are no unusual noises or resistance when shifting. It is now at a shop because I ran out of time to continue working on this myself. They have also never seen this before, my goal is to get an idea of what to check before piling up a diagnostic bill and doing unnecessary work.

 

[SNLC]

What flywheel and clutch did you use?

Does the slave rod have some free play when at rest?

Cheers

 

[Loober]

The symptoms suggest there is no mechanical link between the engine and transmission, which explains why you can shift freely with the engine spinning. The Obvious culprit would be the clutch not making contact with the flywheel, that could happen if it is installed backwards I would drop the trans and check that out first. You can check if the transfer case is engaging by turning on 4wd, and spin the rear drive shaft by hand and see if the front is spinning as well.

 

[dcruiser666]

@SNLC I believe I used 1HZ clutch and flywheel. I'll have to dig up the part numbers and search them again to know for sure, I bought those parts a few months ago per someone's recommendation. There is a tiny bit of free play on the rod, although it still moves the fork a good amount.

The symptoms suggest there is no mechanical link between the engine and transmission, which explains why you can shift freely with the engine spinning. The Obvious culprit would be the clutch not making contact with the flywheel, that could happen if it is installed backwards I would drop the trans and check that out first. You can check if the transfer case is engaging by turning on 4wd, and spin the rear drive shaft by hand and see if the front is spinning as well.

I did just get my hands on this bearing retainer for a 1HZ H55F. Compared to an old 3B one I have laying around, it looks like the throw out bearing could be getting forced into the pressure plate since it wouldn't have nearly as much back travel. The shaft begins almost 2 inches further up on the 3B retainer. That could definitely cause a lack of a mechanical link.

Ugh, looks like the transmission is coming out again. The OD on this shaft is pretty different from the 3B as well, really screwed this part up. Hopefully nothing is destroyed. Going check 4wd on the t case too just to be thorough. Thanks

 

[SNLC]

Should be 275mm clutch then. Shouldn’t be an issue but it is always a process of elimination. You should have 1/2-1” of free play on the slave rod and fork.

A lot of difference in those bearing retainers. I would have installed the 1HZ.

Cheers

 

[dcruiser666]

Should be 275mm clutch then. Shouldn’t be an issue but it is always a process of elimination. You should have 1/2-1” of free play on the slave rod and fork.

A lot of difference in those bearing retainers. I would have installed the 1HZ.

Cheers

Yeah, rookie mistake. I really didn't know these parts were different, I should have questioned things when the throw out bearing had a loose fit on the retainer.

There's like maybe a millimeter of free play there, but I don't know if I would call it "free". Takes some effort to get that movement. It's all adding up now.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Definitely need the 1HZ/1HD retainer.

Wanna sell the B input shaft and retainer?

Fwiw you can run the 275mm or 300mm clutch setup, just depends on what flywheel you have. The disc orientation certainly may cause disengagement issues. For example on a 2F the clutch disc will mind against the flywheel bolts if installed backwards do it never disengages.

 

[dcruiser666]

Wanna sell the B input shaft and retainer?

Sure, I actually have two sets of 3b input shafts and retainers. One is spoken for, pm me if you want the other.

I'll get a good look at everything today, going to take the clutch and pressure plate off to inspect for damage before fitting everything again. I'm pretty sure I'm running the 275mm clutch though, part number is for 1hz. They didn't make 300mm for that right?

 

[cruiserpilot]

Before you installed the transmission and transfer to the engine did you test engagement
of gears within themselves?
i know it’s a big state, but how far from Stockton are you?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Sure, I actually have two sets of 3b input shafts and retainers. One is spoken for, pm me if you want the other.

I'll get a good look at everything today, going to take the clutch and pressure plate off to inspect for damage before fitting everything again. I'm pretty sure I'm running the 275mm clutch though, part number is for 1hz. They didn't make 300mm for that right?

They didn't set it up from the factory with the 300mm on the 1HZ Cruiser setup BUT it can be done with 100% OE parts. We stock the full setup (flywheel, part# ENGFW17020 and clutch kit, part# CLHD300EKIT) should anyone want to go with the 300mm kit. It will fit inside the standard 1HD/1HZ to H55F Bellhousing (Part# TR60230)

PM sent on the used stuff!

 

[dcruiser666]

Before you installed the transmission and transfer to the engine did you test engagement
of gears within themselves?
i know it’s a big state, but how far from Stockton are you?

I did fit the shifters and made sure they could move through everything smoothly, but i didn't confirm that turning the input shaft by hand moved the driveshaft flanges while in gear. That would rule out any internal error?

I'm a few hours away from Stockton, in Los Angeles.

 

[cruiserpilot]

Just double checking no internal omission prior to complete assembly. I made sure
my high and low worked before I installed into truck as well as made sure it shifted
through all the transmission gears with the correct feel through the transfer case.
I’m by definition OCD. That would have eliminated internal errors. I have 12HT, no
experience with 1HZ.

@orangefj45. Georg owns Valley Hybrids. He assisted me long distance on my build.
Perhaps give him a call, he is in Stockton[/USER]

 

[dcruiser666]

Just double checking no internal omission prior to complete assembly. I made sure
my high and low worked before I installed into truck as well as made sure it shifted
through all the transmission gears with the correct feel through the transfer case.
I’m by definition OCD. That would have eliminated internal errors. I have 12HT, no
experience with 1HZ.

@orangefj45. Georg owns Valley Hybrids. He assisted me long distance on my build.
Perhaps give him a call, he is in Stockton[/USER]

Ah yes, I've heard great things about valley hybrids. A friend of mine has also been getting some good help from George lately. I'll try to get in touch for my final checks. Thanks.

And regarding the clutch, I do recall it would not sit flush with the flywheel in one orientation due to contact with the bolts. This variant might only fit one way, I remember it seemed obvious which direction it went when I installed it despite there being no markings.

 

[Loober]

They didn't set it up from the factory with the 300mm on the 1HZ Cruiser setup BUT it can be done with 100% OE parts. We stock the full setup (flywheel, part# ENGFW17020 and clutch kit, part# CLHD300EKIT) should anyone want to go with the 300mm kit. It will fit inside the standard 1HD/1HZ to H55F Bellhousing (Part# TR60230)

PM sent on the used stuff!

Aren't the 300mm OEM clutch have finer splines then the standard H55 output since they were initially designed for the H151? I remember seeing that you would have to use some random isuzu clutch if you wanted the H55 to work with the 300mm. That was the main reason I stuck with the 275mm when i did my FT swap because I wanted to stay with OEM parts.

 

[SNLC]

80-series H150 is 21-Spline. 70-series 1HZ H55 is 21-spline.

Cheers

 

[Loober]

80-series H150 is 21-Spline. 70-series 1HZ H55 is 21-spline.

Cheers

Based on this info, the H150 still uses the 275mm clutch but has matching spline count to the H55, the H151 uses the 300mm clutch but has a lower spline count of 14. Appears the H151 was only available for diesel models, hence the lower first and second, whereas the 150 was found in petrols.

Manual Gearbox; 5-speed manual the model designation is H150F.
The gear ratios are: 1st 4.529:1, 2nd 2.464:1, 3rd 1.49:1, 4th 1:1, 5th .881:1, reverse 4.313:1
Size, Spline OD & No. of Teeth 275 x 29.7 x 21

Manual Gearbox; 5-speed manual the model designation is H151F.
The gear ratios are: 1st 4.081:1, 2nd 2.294:1, 3rd 1.49:1, 4th 1:1, 5th .881:1, reverse 4.313:1
Size, Spline OD & No. of Teeth 300 x 32.4 x 14

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Aren't the 300mm OEM clutch have finer splines then the standard H55 output since they were initially designed for the H151? I remember seeing that you would have to use some random isuzu clutch if you wanted the H55 to work with the 300mm. That was the main reason I stuck with the 275mm when i did my FT swap because I wanted to stay with OEM parts.

Sorry, I should have been more precise. Our kit featured all Toyota bearings and AISIN disc/plate components. The disc is the 21 spline 300mm variant from the Isuzu application, built by AISIN.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Based on this info, the H150 still uses the 275mm clutch but has matching spline count to the H55, the H151 uses the 300mm clutch but has a lower spline count of 14. Appears the H151 was only available for diesel models, hence the lower first and second, whereas the 150 was found in petrols.

Manual Gearbox; 5-speed manual the model designation is H150F.
The gear ratios are: 1st 4.529:1, 2nd 2.464:1, 3rd 1.49:1, 4th 1:1, 5th .881:1, reverse 4.313:1
Size, Spline OD & No. of Teeth 275 x 29.7 x 21

Manual Gearbox; 5-speed manual the model designation is H151F.
The gear ratios are: 1st 4.081:1, 2nd 2.294:1, 3rd 1.49:1, 4th 1:1, 5th .881:1, reverse 4.313:1
Size, Spline OD & No. of Teeth 300 x 32.4 x 14

You’re spot on. The kit uses a mix of Toyota and AISIN (which is the OEM) as I noted in my previous reply. We’ve got the 14spl 300mm discs in stock too should someone be going that direction.

 

[dcruiser666]

Thanks for the help everyone. Got the truck moving today. Other than the retainer being incorrect, the tip of it wrecked the clutch disc since it was pressed against the splined ring so I replaced that too. Just a warning to any other first timers taking on a project like this, make sure you have the correct retainer. I used information on mud for this part of the project and the thread I looked at did not mention this because the retainers were the same in that particular case. Check your part numbers, don't end up like me!

 

[Will Van]

They didn't set it up from the factory with the 300mm on the 1HZ Cruiser setup BUT it can be done with 100% OE parts. We stock the full setup (flywheel, part# ENGFW17020 and clutch kit, part# CLHD300EKIT) should anyone want to go with the 300mm kit. It will fit inside the standard 1HD/1HZ to H55F Bellhousing (Part# TR60230)

PM sent on the used stuff!

Sorry, I should have been more precise. Our kit featured all Toyota bearings and AISIN disc/plate components. The disc is the 21 spline 300mm variant from the Isuzu application, built by AISIN.

Great info! Trying to order this clutch and flywheel combo now.