Mysterious Power Problem

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Apr 6, 2007
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Under the hood
1993 FZJ80 mostly stock with A442 transmission. A few months ago it started randomly losing power. While driving along suddenly no matter how much you pressed the throttle the RPM's would instead dip precipitously (but never die altogether) and the truck would lose power and slow down. A few seconds later it would resume driving as normal. Originally this happened maybe 1-2/mo. Over time the frequency increased until it is now daily, almost every drive. The drives are all short, <30mins and this behavior occurs in the first 5-15mins. Its bad enough the driver has to pull over on the freeway. Sometimes shifting to park and back to gear helps, but not always. Usually cycling the ignition fixes, but not always. Last week started new behavior: when pressing the accelerator the RPM's go up, but the truck doesn't go any faster (level ground.) It seems to randomly choose which of the two issues its going to have.

So far I have:
  • replaced fuel pump and sock (inside of tank was immaculate)
  • checked TPS per FSM - tested good
  • cleaned all the engine grounds
  • swapped out the EFI relay
  • long ago I checked/fixed the wiring harness near the EGR and wrapped it with heat-resistant loom protector which is in good shape
  • checked for codes - none
  • Checked tranny fluid - its full and looks/smells good
I need help on this one, I can't afford to throw parts at it, and its my sons DD so needs to work and be reliable. The car has been awesome for the 15+ yrs Ive owned it, but this is really frustrating me and I haven't been able to come up with even a good idea of what the problem might be.

Suggestions?
 
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You're describing two, potentially unrelated, problems.
1» Loss of engine power (engine rpm decreases with throttle pressure)
2» Loss of engine input to driveline (engine rpm increases with throttle pressure, with no resultant speed increase)

The first problem has to be investigated using the service manual (RM301U). Download it, and the Electrical Wiring Diagram (EWD), if you haven't done so already. They are both in the Resources forum, 80 series section. Obviously, you need a fully charged battery and known functioning fusible links, as well as known good fuel, to start.

If you can't find any DTCs, there isn't a failing component or system, so the best bet is to look for a loose item somewhere. Since you didn't mention any electrical warning lights, I assume the electrical charging system is functioning, even when the malfunction occurs. Since there is only air, fuel and spark involved in making an engine run, look for air or fuel restrictions.
– A broken intake tube will sometimes cause probelms and this is easy to find. Remove the tube and look inside while shining a flashlight on the exterior. Bending the tube will expose any faults.
– A loss of engine power usually indicates a loss of fuel pressure. It's unlikely the problem is a single, or even, multiple injectors, because that would likely cause a stumbling engine, not one that loses all power at once. I'd look for something that is resticting fuel flow entirely.
a) There is a vacuum switching valve (VSV) for fuel pressure under the intake manifold (see page EG-306). This valve gets a signal from the fuel pressure regulator to ECM terminal FPU. Unfortunately, the manual is silent on what the FPU terminal does, but it's not the circuit opening relay or fuel pressure relay or resistor (ECM terminal FPR), since those have named terminals and are completely referenced outside of the VSV for Fuel Pressure section. I assume it's the pump. If the VSV is sending a faulty signal to the pump to shut off, it own't necessarily generate a DTC, since it's doing its job, albeit not correctly.
b) the other possibility is the fuel ump resistor/relay or curcuit opening relay systems, but if those were at fault, I'd expect to see a DTC.
For the sake of completeness, start on page EG-230 and work through to page EG-231. There's no need to go through the entire ECM terminal checklist, unless you can't find something obvious elsewhere. All this sounds like a lot, but it's takes more time to write and read it than it does to do it. You only need a DMM, a notepad an pen and some patience. All of the possible sytem components are illustrated onpage EG-209.

Unfortunately, this isn't a straightfoward component failure problem, so you'll have to do a little legwork and report back before you can expect any further guesses (from me, at least).


The second problem is almost always transmission related. Solve the first problem first.
 
Does it have the original catalytic converters?
Clogged cat might cause this behavior
Have you checked the afm?
What’s the condition of the fusible link?
These are where I’d start.
Cats were replaced a few years ago. The VAF tested good per the FSM, and the fusible links were replaced a few years ago and test good.
 
@Seth_O The early 93’s had an engine ecu that was apparently prone to problems which I know nothing about through personal experience. I also don’t know your rigs build date but perhaps this would be something worth looking into.
 
@Seth_O The early 93’s had an engine ecu that was apparently prone to problems which I know nothing about through personal experience. I also don’t know your rigs build date but perhaps this would be something worth looking into.
Cheers - I remember digging into this many, many years ago and thought I had determined mine wasn't one of the affected ones. But its probably worth my time to do that again to rule it out. Thanks for the reminder.
 
Cats were replaced a few years ago. The VAF tested good per the FSM, and the fusible links were replaced a few years ago and test good.
Did you replace the cats with OEM or something else. A buddy of mine replaced his cats with units available from amazon. Not sure what he paid but they lasted 1 year. When they failed it took us a minute to identify the issue because we assumed the cats were good but the lack of power was chronic. Brand new second hand OEM cats fixed the issue.
 
Did you replace the cats with OEM or something else. A buddy of mine replaced his cats with units available from amazon. Not sure what he paid but they lasted 1 year. When they failed it took us a minute to identify the issue because we assumed the cats were good but the lack of power was chronic. Brand new second hand OEM cats fixed the issue
Aftermarket
 
Have you done anything to the truck around the time the problem first started? Sometimes, it's bumping something or breaking a connector that causes an intermittent issue.

Also, have you tried removing the gas cap and driving it to see if the tank is seeing vacuum, resulting in fuel pressure reduction? This is a simple and easy test, and if the truck runs fine with the fuel cap off, then you're able to focus on fuel vac and evap lines to troubleshoot.

Battery in good shape (* less than a few years old)?
 
I would replace the fuel pump relay if you haven't done that yet
Thanks for mentioning this. I did a little research on the FPR and that seems extremely likely. Its an interesting setup with the default to the resistor/reduced pump pressure. It would explain why I lose power randomly but the engine still runs smoothly and idles just fine.
 
Have you done anything to the truck around the time the problem first started? Sometimes, it's bumping something or breaking a connector that causes an intermittent issue.

Also, have you tried removing the gas cap and driving it to see if the tank is seeing vacuum, resulting in fuel pressure reduction? This is a simple and easy test, and if the truck runs fine with the fuel cap off, then you're able to focus on fuel vac and evap lines to troubleshoot.

Battery in good shape (* less than a few years old)?
No recent work on the truck (until I started trying to troubleshoot this issue.) Battery is relatively new (<2yrs old I think?). Ill check the gas cap.
 
I would replace the fuel pump relay if you haven't done that yet
Next time you are in my neck of the woods, I owe you an adult beverage.

Pulled the fuel pump relay and found the button corroded and in poor shape. A quick, light hit with sandpaper and it was back in action. I ordered a new one and the old one will go in the parts bin once that arrives.

As for the shifting issue: I checked the TCU and found a stored code (65: short or no communication with the timing solenoid.) All the wiring between the valve body and the TCU tested good, so I pulled the solenoid. Found it to be sticky and firing intermittently; the other 3 weren't much better. I ordered a kit to replace all 4. Fingers crossed this gets my son back on the road. He told me today he was embarassed driving his brothers modified civic.
 
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