My brother’s 4th gen 4Runner

[Infinity00]

Hi Everyone, my brother and I have been going around and around about what to do with his 4Runner. He goes on some knarly muddy trails in the northwest Seattle area getting to his cross races. Theres large sharp rocks and areas he could slide off and into a muddy ravine along the side of the road that would be difficult to get out of. As I’m writing this, I’m laughing because this is exactly what everyone wants to drive in. He also is an avid hunter and would like to get into some hard to get to area in Colorado. Other than that, I don’t see him 4 wheeling much.

He’s stock with worn copper at3. 188,000 miles and has only ever replaced the shocks, that’s it. He says it feels unsafe. (Of course it does)

so new tires for sure, he’s leaning towards KO2s but is concerned about their poor rep in rain and he’s in the PNW, or Dueler Revo 3, but should he go up a size or two, which would require a lift, or is the 4Runner capable stock with oem tire size? I’ve told him to make an appointment with @torfab and they’d be able to tell him what components need replacing and if he needs a lift or not for what he wants to do. But I want to hear your feedback! Thanks in advance.
-Anne

 

[GXO]

If you go up tire you need to go up for a lift.

 

[Infinity00]

That was one thing I was wondering and thought was true from everything I’ve read. But if it’s capable stock with a good set of tires then no need for the lift. He’s willing to put a lift on it if it makes it more capable and if the coils and shocks are tired and he can rationalize replacing them. Do you know if the coils get soft and tired at almost 200k? I’m thinking they do. His “New oem shocks” have 80k on them. I’m assuming he probably needs front end work to take some slop out, new bushings etc, so I’m worried if he pours money into a lift and bigger tires it’s just going to feel less safe. That said, I don’t know the 4Runners and maybe the front end is fine, what typically fails first?

 

[GXO]

They do. Mine settled 3" over 100k on my GX.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

@evilorgoodtwin Wow. Your description of the terrain that your brother needs to traverse in order to get to his hunting spots sounds like wheeling to me! That's more wheeling than half the audience here who just builds for showing off. Just kidding!

Also, your comment that the 4R feels unsafe. Is it the 4R or the terrain that makes it feel unsafe? Driving on the edge of a rocky road with a muddy cliff on the side sounds unsafer to me.

Anyways, you didn't mention if the 4R was 4x4 with CDL or V8. Here's my view on what I think makes the rig more capable:

1. Really good tires for the terrain that you are in. Tires are probably the most important factor in making a rig more capable. I got Nitto Ridge Grapplers which are a hybrid MT and AT tire. Not sure if they are good for your terrain, but are great in SoCal's desert/mountain areas.

2. Good suspension with good clearance. It sounds like clearance is not an issue, but more likely just worn out saggy coils/springs at 200K miles. If you need to refresh the springs/shock anyways and are due for new tires, then this is a great time to consider a mild lift and bigger tires. Nothing too high since the 4R can already traverse the said terrain with the current height/clearance. At most a 2" lift with the new suspension and bigger tires.

3. Center diff lock and/or rear diff lock. Being able to lock the center provides more capability in off camber situations. This with ATRAC is pretty capable. Rear locker would be a bonus.

I think these 3 items make any rig more capable.

 

[Infinity00]

Thanks for the responses. This is really helpful! To answer the questions, I think he mostly feels unsafe on the highway where there are ruts and the 4Runner gets flung back and forth in the ruts- sounds like sloppy front end issues to me. He’s got a 2005 limited 6 cylinder 4x4 with a center diff, not sure if he has ATRAC but I’ll ask. I’m sure he doesn’t feel safe in the terrain either, but mostly he says he’s really far from anyone and anywhere if he got stuck. I told him he needs a winch and to join up with a local club so he can learn how to get himself out of those situations and learn what he can and can’t do with the truck with other knowledgeable people. I put OME on both my jeep and my Landcruiser and love the setup on both - do people run them on the 4runners? The little reading I’ve done, it seems like more 4Runners are using other brands.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

OME is the old standby. Lots of people still use them for a basic suspension and OME also has some higher end BP51 suspensions. Lots of new options nowadays with Fox, ICON, Radflo, Ironman, Dobinson, ToyTec, Bilstein, etc. Sometimes a basic suspension upgrade like OME is all you need as long as you are not too picky on a plush Lexus ride.

I think your advice to have him take the 4R to an offroading shop is great advice. They will be able to inspect and recommend changes/upgrades. He needs to ask them to prioritize the changes in terms of safety/maintenance vs optional upgrades. Usually, my local Lexus dealer will automatically recommend $4k to $5k worth of maintenance when I go for a 40-point inspection and oil change.

 

[4Point7Lucky]

All 4th gen 4x4 4runners have ATRAC. An agressive AT tire would be great for him, like the K02s, General Grabber ATXs, Wild Peak AT3Ws,
As he can go 265/70/17 without the need for a lift.


This Quote was spot on:

He needs to ask them to prioritize the changes in terms of safety/maintenance vs optional upgrades.

 

[Infinity00]

I’ve sent my brother the link to this thread so maybe he’ll add to it after he hears from @torfab - he called them and left an email to setup an appointment. Looking forward to what he finds out...

 

[Infinity00]

So he emailed and called Torfab last week but he hasn’t heard back as far as I know. He contacted a place called “Mule” in Bellevue - and they gave him a quote of $2500 incl taxand install for ARB airlockers with the twin compressor. The install is around 7 hours. I don’t think he has room for a twin compressor, and wouldn’t he need a tank to really use it as designed (for air tools).

Anyway, thought I post up and see what people thought. I feel like he would also want a ring and pinion overhaul kit from Kurt - and that wasn’t quoted. I figured that’s another $1000 bucks for the job for someone that knows what they are doing. At least that’s what it would cost in Boulder, but I’ve seen guys get it done for much less.

 

[GXO]

I use a twin. It has plenty of volume to air up tires right off the chuck. I added a locker manifold and a tray (rago or powertray) to hold it all nicely on the DS fender in the engine compartment.

 

[Infinity00]

I talked to my brother last night and I think he wants the twin compressor. I’ll tell him there might be room on the ds fender. Regarding my ring and pinion question I realized if the are charging him 4.5 hours to put in the locker, it shouldn’t be that much more to add the overhaul kit since I think they’d have to set up the diff for it anyway.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Did the suspension components check out okay? I see you moving on straight to lockers.

If I was to spend $3k on the rear diff, I would heavily consider a swap to a 2010+ FJC e-locker 8.2” diff rear axle.

You get the improved 8.2” diff and e-lockers. Is this better than what you are doing? I don’t know. My research says the 2010+ FJC rear axle swap is a good option.

Manny

 

[GXO]

I would never rebuild an 8" given that 8.2" are so easy to swap.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Thanks Dan. You always have a great perspective on all GX470 related things

 

[Infinity00]

Are the 2010+ fj easy enough to find, and all come with e-lockers? That’s awesome. Thanks for the tip, this is obviously the better way to go. He is definitely in for doing the suspension, we just need to figure out what size and brand. I wish I lived closer to him, I’d help him do all of this since I’ve done all of it on my jeep and fj60.

Is there anything we should look out for in finding the axle? What’s the max mileage you’d purchase to do the swap with? How much should he expect to pay? I guess I’ll have some more research to do.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

There’s a recent thread where someone was updating a spreadsheet with available FJC 8.2” axles, location, prices, miles and e-locker status. Not all have e-lockers.

If i were you, I would do these upgrades in stages. First, get the tires and suspension. Hit the trail and see if that’s enough improvement to do the trails you want.

Second, do the research on the 8.2 axle from a 2010+ FJC with e-locker. Only do this upgrade once you determine that the trails you want to do require it.

While the rear locker is something good to have in some trails, it’s not absolutely required. You also have to determine if a winch is more appropriate for the terrain you are going in.

Unless you can afford it all and want to do it at the same time, the go for all the upgrades.

I would prioritize in this order:

1. Maintenance is up to date on all fluids, brakes, timing belt, water pump, radiator, plugs, drive belt, alternator, battery, etc.
2. Tires
3. Suspension
4. Winch or rear locker (preferably the 2010+ FJC eLocked axle)

 

[Infinity00]

Thanks Homer, my brother liked all the good info from everyone. He ended up having Mule in Seattle do the suspension (OME) and he put 32” Nitto Grapplers on it (I think that’s what he finally decided on). He’s very happy with the setup and all the earlier problems he was having with squirrelly steering and rear end sliding out is now gone. Oh he ended up just getting the single compressor.

Somewhere near Engineer pass:

 

[Infinity00]

Driving thru an Avalanche canyon somewhere near Engineer pass. I teased him his turn was after the white minivan.

 

[GXO]

Looks like the animas forks slide. Pretty cool!