Motor options

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TULAX17

TULAX17

Joined
May 13, 2007
Threads
24
Messages
114
Location
Fort Collins, CO
Hi, I have a 1976 40 in Alexandria (Old Town area). The motor locked up last week and won't turn either way. It had dumped oil and I assume it's toast. I had put that last motor in from a donor truck 5 years ago ('78 2F block with a rebuilt '74 F.5 head). Unfortunately I no longer have a place or time to do the work myself. I would hate to sell it, but don't think I can put more than a few grand into it right now.

Question 1: any suggestions other than a direct 2F swap? A rebuild or 3FE conversion appear out of budget.

Question 2: recommendation for a shop to have it done? I was planning on IPOR, but saw a couple others mentioned on the forum.

Basically what I'm asking is "what would you do"? I've read through a bunch of the club forum and appreciate input from a group who knows these trucks. Once settling on an option I'll post to the wanted thread.

IMG_1881.webp
 
I'll PM you my number after I get done mowing the lawn and you can call me at your convenience to discuss. I am full of opinions, just ask the other club members. It would probably be better to talk about it than type a whole bunch of jibberish.
I also have a 3FE block for a REALLY good price (no head though). You would have to source a bunch of other stuff that would probably make it not worth the cost and effort.
Quickly, have you pulled the plugs and tried to rotate it?
You can probably source a good used engine inexpensively, join the club, and we can pop it in. For under a few grand.
 
Stumpalama said:
I'll PM you my number after I get done mowing the lawn and you can call me at your convenience to discuss. I am full of opinions, just ask the other club members. It would probably be better to talk about it than type a whole bunch of jibberish.
I also have a 3FE block for a REALLY good price (no head though). You would have to source a bunch of other stuff that would probably make it not worth the cost and effort.
Quickly, have you pulled the plugs and tried to rotate it?
You can probably source a good used engine inexpensively, join the club, and we can pop it in. For under a few grand.
Click to expand...


Much appreciated. I look forward to talking to you.
-Steve
 
Nice looking 40! If you decide to sell, let me know.

Rob
 
Stump is full of opinions!!:flipoff2:
A 350 swap is prity in expensive. There are 2F's around. I'd sell you my spare but I'm to lazy to pull it out of the 60.

I'll give you my 1F it only smokes on extreme down hills.
 
Thanks all for the input, especially Stump for the call yesterday.

Summary of what happened: I was driving ~50mph and started to hear progressively louder clicking from the engine area. The sound went up/down with engine speed. Before I could get off the highway I lost engine power. No loud sounds or smoke. After stopping it wouldn't start (turn key and nothing). I couldn't deal with it then so towed it to a shop who said the engine is seized. I got the truck home yesterday and verified the motor won't manually turn either way, and verified the shop had drained my battery dry. Thanks.

Here is what I've tried so far...
  • Distributor: pulled out. no sign of wear. (*the flecks on the shaft in pic 3 was just debris from pulling it out. not metal)
  • Valve cover: removed, no visible damage.
  • Pulled spark plugs and tried to rotate. nothing.
  • Visual inspection around the motor; no visible signs of damage or fluid loss.
Pictures here

I don't have it where I can drain the oil yet, which could give some clues. Thoughts on what else to try?

Also, if I should move this to the main forum let me know. I wanted to give an update either way. I appreciate the local info provided already from this group.

Thanks, Steve
 
If you put the engine in 4th gear, can you push it?

I had one seize up in a 40 once and it locked up the tires going 50mph. I dropped the oil pan and found metal throughout. I had another that threw a rod through the oil pan. Hope your luck is better than mine. Finding a used 2f is getting harder, but not impossible. The $$ adds up when you put a clutch into it and a few other things. If you have to rebuild one, it adds up quickly on the $$.

what does the oil on the dipstick look like?

If you decide to sell as is, let me know...
 
It would be nice if the rods where bent, then you'd think that the rod bearings seized, but it sounds like the main bearings are the seized ones..

@TULAX17 , Nathan @35inchoverdrive has a 2f in his retired rig "Wrinkles". He'd take $800. The engine needs some gaskets, but otherwise is a decent 2f. It is in the vehicle still, so you could hear it run if needed.
 
I drained the oil, and less than 1QT came out. So completely my fault. Life got busy and I hadn't been checking it. But work on that motor was inevitable as the oil was changed <1000 miles ago. The block I put in from a donor 4 years ago, and took that chance it wouldn't last.

There was no metal in what little oil came out. I got my finger in the bottom of the pan and there was no metal. I'm in an apartment so I'll need to find somewhere to take it before I can drop the pan.

The car rolls freely in 4th gear without turning the motor...it rolls in any gear for that matter as if the clutch isn't engaged. Seems odd. The motor had cut out while in 4th gear going 50mph. Other than the proceeding clicking described above, I didn't hear or feel anything unusual other than a sudden loss of power. Speculation on what else could be going on?

The head on the motor is a 74 F.5 that was rebuild ~3000 miles ago that would be nice to use. If damage is contained to the lower end I have seen some short blocks for sale for cheap.

Vince, thanks for the 2F referral. Good to collect some options.
 
Stumpalama said:
Is the t-case in neutral? Did the truck just lurch and come to a squealing stop?
Click to expand...

I was messing with the T-Case a couple days ago...nothing seemed wrong with it but I was only rolling a couple feet and may not have gotten it back in. I'll check tonight, and try removing the starter and the flywheel cover.

No lurch/squealing. Just click-click-clicking getting worse for about a mile (going over the 14th st bridge on 395) and then loss of power. Then I shifted to neutral and coasted off.

I'll try the things above and then work on getting somewhere I can take the pan off, but that may take a couple wks to find a place/time to do it.
 
One other point...I had heard the same or similar clicking sound on a previous trip but it had gone away. That makes me think a bearing.
 
Something feels off about this scenario. So did the engine just cut off ?
 
yeah, it just cut off.
The motor had been burning a lot of oil (all of it in <1000 miles) and had <1QT when it stopped. After driving about 10 minutes I started hearing a clicking that was getting worse...like something coming loose. I did start coasting the downhills and only accelerating as needed trying to get to an exit. After coasting I tried to accelerate and the engine had shut off. I put it in neutral and coasted to a stop. Turned the key and nothing. Towed to a shop and they said engine seized. I got it home and couldn't turn it by hand using the belt which I normally could, even with plugs out.
Last night I got a socket on the nut in front of the crank and with some effort was able to turn it a bit each way. I'm going to refill it with oil and try to roll it in 4th. I assume my note above about rolling in gear was user error because I was only going a couple of feet and had been messing with the t-case.
Next weekend is the earliest I might be able to drop the oil pan, but need to find a place to do it and way to get it there. My association frowns on that kind of work in the parking lot.

Separate question: what could cause excessive oil burning if compression is good? There is evidence on the spark plugs of oil burning. I'll post pics later - I see the link I had put in a previous post didn't work. Last year compression was measured 175-190 for all cylinders (I have an F.5 head so it runs higher compression).
 
Put some oil in the cylinders. And leave the plugs out. I would think the oil leaked out not burned. My F has bad valve seals and when oil gets by it smokes very, very bad.
 
the valves should be good. The head was rebuilt recently. The block was original. I often park it for 2-3 wks at a time and have never noticed oil spots so I figure burning. Plus the plugs are fouled with not many miles.

Today I refilled with oil. No visible leaks. Starter audibly engages but can't move the flywheel. I put in 4th and was able to move it a few feet with help from a friend and downhill slope, but very difficult. I was rocking it back and forth to get it to move a half foot at a time. It's locked up on something. While moving the oil fill cap was off and first rocker arm was moving. Plugs were in so that probably made it a bit harder.

I'm fairly settled that the block needs to come out (oil consumption, sounds before stopping, and currently not moving. The question is replace full engine or have that block rebuilt. If I do the pull/install, does anyone know approx cost of parts and machine work of having the block rebuilt?
 
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