Motor Knock FZJ80

[TheBussman]

Yea never run a piston that's too tight it could seize up in the bore when it expands and ruin all your hard work. can you re arrange the pistons in the bores to make it in spec? is it just one big piston? buy another? if not it just needs a little platu hone to get it in spec. you can do it yourself, it is a learned skill and nice to practice on a junk block. id feel alot better about it if all the cyls were honed the same way, you don't want to hone any more on the ones that are ok. I would take it back.

 

[Malleus]

I'd be leery about trying to hone out a thousandth with a dingle ball. A couple of tenths, OK, but a thousandth is asking a bit, especially in 4 inches of stroke. IMHO.

Agree about tight pistons. Bad mojo.

 

[Addi]

I appreciate your guys input. I’d take it back but I don’t live in Santa Fe anymore and it’s difficult to find the time to get back out there. I was able to find a machine shop in town that could do it quickly, so I should be back in business by Monday! He’s also going to measure out all the cylinders himself, so it will be nice to compare it to my measurements and see if I’m doing an ok job.

 

[Addi]

Well it went worse than I could have expected. I told the shop that only the last cylinder needed to be honed, and I gave them the piston to match with. In an attempt to be helpful they went ahead and honed all the cylinders to match this single oversized piston I provided. I was already upset that half of them were out of spec per the fsm even before this. Now I'm looking at about .0033 on average for the wall clearance. I think at this point I can't justify putting the engine back together with these numbers, when the manual says I should have rebored even before this.

 

[Malleus]

That sucks

 

[Broski]

So hard to find competent shops these days.
It’s almost like you needed to tape off the other 5 cylinders, and put notes with arrows and diagrams

Are they charging you for the extra work that you didn’t ask for.

 

[Fj80oregon]

If that was my shop I would buy new .50mm or 1.0mm over pistons from Toyota and have them eat the machining. Not that expensive from Toyota if you buy from overseas. The rings are expensive. Always best to give them the pistons so they can measure to match the bore. Sounds like that’s your next step because of the situation.

 

[Fj80oregon]

How much did they grind the crank? Just curious.

 

[Addi]

I'm going to talk to the shop again tomorrow and see what we can work out. I have half a mind to just buy a short block so I don't have to worry about it anymore, but maybe thats a bit drastic. Luckily I went with .25 over for all my pistons to leave room for a future rebuild, so I guess that will be the route.

How much did they grind the crank? Just curious.

It was .25 off the mains and .5 off the rods. They shipped the crank to Denver for the work and it all turned out spot on.

 

[TheBussman]

I'd be leery about trying to hone out a thousandth with a dingle ball. A couple of tenths, OK, but a thousandth is asking a bit, especially in 4 inches of stroke. IMHO.

Agree about tight pistons. Bad mojo.

big difference between a dingle ball hone and a ridgid platu hone.

 

[TheBussman]

hopefully they can help you out with re-machining for the next size up that would be best. Just a thought: I have a few motors out there running with Line2Line Coatings™ - https://www.line2linecoatings.com/ they can spray on a coating to make the piston larger, they are very precise on how thick they apply the coating. Usually use this for engines where larger pistons are not available.

 

[Addi]

Finally back working on the engine, but I ran into a fairly concerning hiccup. The oil pump drive gear wont slide into the new bushing that I installed. I purchased a new brass bushing from Yota1 that should be correct for this engine, but no matter what I try I can't get the gear installed. After cooling the drive gear down in the freezer I was able to get it in about 3/16", but then it wouldn't turn and removing it was difficult. I don't have a bore gauge small enough to compare this new bushing against my old one, which does fit the new drive gear no problem. I guess its possible that I damaged the bushing during install, but I don't feel like I did such a bad job. The garage is currently fairly cold at around 50 degrees, so possibly the tolerances are off. Could that cause it?

The photo shows about how far I was able to get the gear in before giving up. I'm also a little worried that I may have damaged the bushing trying to get the gear installed, because you can see a sharp line in the brass it looks like the micro ridges have been compressed. Anyone have some tips?

 

[Kernal]

Did you test fit the new bushing with the new (or old) pump gear before installing the new bushing?

Is the indentation equally deep around the ID of the bushing?

Any difficulty installing the new bushing?

Can you post a couple more photos of the installed bushing ie: direct on and from other directions to show the indentation around the ID

Maybe also send those photos to yota1 for their opinion (or pull the bushing and send it to yota1)??

@landtank might have an opinion

Oil Pump Bushing

The oil pump bushing is not available through Toyota and is often needed for a proper engine rebuild. This is a machined bushing that matches the original in design, however is made out of navel brass which is more durable. In addition there is an install tool available to aid with installing...

landtankproducts.com

 

[alia176]

Also, take a close look at the PS pump gear for ANY nicks/damaged tooth corners. If you find anything less than perfect, swap out that gear. Otherwise, that FREAKING whine will drive you bat $hit crazy.

 

[Addi]

Did you test fit the new bushing with the new (or old) pump gear before installing the new bushing?

Is the indentation equally deep around the ID of the bushing?

Any difficulty installing the new bushing?

Can you post a couple more photos of the installed bushing ie: direct on and from other directions to show the indentation around the ID

Maybe also send those photos to yota1 for their opinion (or pull the bushing and send it to yota1)??

@landtank might have an opinion

Oil Pump Bushing

The oil pump bushing is not available through Toyota and is often needed for a proper engine rebuild. This is a machined bushing that matches the original in design, however is made out of navel brass which is more durable. In addition there is an install tool available to aid with installing...

landtankproducts.com

I regret I did not test the pump gear with the bushing before install. I wish I had.

From what I can tell the indentation is equal all around the bushing, and the bushing is installed evenly within the block. I don't have any frame of reference for how easy or difficult they should be to install, but I did have to cool down the bushing beforehand to allow me to install it. That didn't seem surprising to me considering how difficult the original bushing was to remove. It was pretty tight in there.

Unfortunately at the time Landtank did not have any in stock otherwise I would have went with theirs. They are in stock now so I ordered one, because I think my old one is toast. I'm not super looking forward to removing it and losing out on $100 haha.

I did reach out to Yota1 to see if they have any ideas. I'll let you know what they say.

 

[Addi]

Also, take a close look at the PS pump gear for ANY nicks/damaged tooth corners. If you find anything less than perfect, swap out that gear. Otherwise, that FREAKING whine will drive you bat $hit crazy.

Will do! Thanks for the tip!

 

[Addi]

Here is Yota1's response.

Thank you for reaching out, and we appreciate the detailed explanation.
What you’re describing is actually typical with this oil pump bushing. These bushings are supplied slightly undersized on the inner diameter so they can be properly fit to the drive gear after installation. Once pressed into the pump housing, the bushing can tighten slightly, and the gear will usually require final sizing to achieve the correct clearance and smooth rotation.
The proper procedure is to lightly relieve the bushing’s inner diameter with careful finishing (for example, light sanding/honing or similar fitting work) until the gear installs fully and spins freely without binding.
We recommend taking off only a minimal amount at a time and checking the fit frequently, as the final clearance is important for proper oil pump operation.
Please let us know if you have any questions during the fitting process, or if you’d like to send the pump/gear back in and we can assist further.

I'm thankful that I wont actually need to swap it out, so long as I don't screw up this process they describe. Does anyone know the recommended clearance for the oil gear?