Most simple diesel engine
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Ratpuke
SILVER Star
Which rig? The 42 (13BT) or the 73?... or the spare 3B w/ rotary pump I have in my garage?
I hate to break it to you, but we've got a lot of those engines here and we know what breaks on them. They are not 750k engines, IMO there are no 750k engines of this size, the Isuzu's are true 500k (between rebuilds) engines. People in Aus have done 1,000,000km on non turbo Isuzu 4BD1's, but they're a special case, not general use. Just like that guy piloting trucks at 50km/h in the landcruiser.
Even if a 1HZ did last 750k, It's unlikely anyone would live long enough to drive one that far. They are very slow stock and have issues when turbocharged.
Mining isn't hard on the engines, but it's death on the rest of the truck.
How about a roll-call of the 3B's and 1HZ's here. Find out the km on them and what work has been done. See if you can find a 750k engine that hasn't been opened.
i have seen 2 750K 3b engines.
the first i bought off the original owner who maintained it meticulously. 760,000 when i bought it (Bruce, you might remember it. the one i had painted yellow) the compression was low as was the oil pressure but it still ran.
the second was a 2 owner unit down here. met the second owner, he bought it at 2 years old and i have no reason not to beleive his tale. it was also tired.
i am sure there are those in the old club that know of the BJ60 that rolled over a million km. he also said it was the orignal engine. i suspect that it was rebuilt at one time. but needlessly it was still running.
rare cases yes. 500K? not an issue at all for the 3B or the 1HZ.
Dougal, are you saying you know of DI toyota engines that routinly turn over more than 500K?
now remember, you said the DI has a longer life span than the IDI.
the ball is in your court.
the first i bought off the original owner who maintained it meticulously. 760,000 when i bought it (Bruce, you might remember it. the one i had painted yellow) the compression was low as was the oil pressure but it still ran.
the second was a 2 owner unit down here. met the second owner, he bought it at 2 years old and i have no reason not to beleive his tale. it was also tired.
i am sure there are those in the old club that know of the BJ60 that rolled over a million km. he also said it was the orignal engine. i suspect that it was rebuilt at one time. but needlessly it was still running.
rare cases yes. 500K? not an issue at all for the 3B or the 1HZ.
Dougal, are you saying you know of DI toyota engines that routinly turn over more than 500K?
now remember, you said the DI has a longer life span than the IDI.
the ball is in your court.
So what was this miraculous 750k 3B used for? Was it ever opened in that time?
How closely related was it to the 3B that I towed home with a dropped precombustion cup with under 200,000km?
Yes there are 1HD-T's here with over 500,000km on them with reportedly nothing but servicing. How their crank bearings are is anyones guess.
Here's one for sale with just over 400,00km. 1HD-T.
Toyota VX Landcruiser LTD 1991 for sale - TradeMe.co.nz - New Zealand
Another with 390,000km.
Toyota landcruiser vx 1991 for sale - TradeMe.co.nz - New Zealand
385,000km
Toyota VX Landcruiser 1993 for sale - TradeMe.co.nz - New Zealand
Here's a 14B powered dyna with 444,000km
Toyota Dyna CHILLER/FREEZER 1991 for sale - TradeMe.co.nz - New Zealand
No shortage of high mileage DI engines. Due to most cities in NZ being coastal though rust takes it's toll on old trucks. Most have bodies rust out and vehicles are scrapped before engines etc give up. We have 6 monthly safety inspections and rust will put your vehicle off the road.
Other than the 3B and a few other odd-balls from the early 80's there are no indirect injection light truck engines. IDI was reserved for passenger cars where the lower noise was considered a good tradeoff for the increased fuel consumption.
It does appear to be you against the world with idi engines. They're gone and won't be coming back. Why fight it? Embrace the faster starting, better fuel economy, higher power, stronger head, lower emissions, longer oil change intervals and boost capacity that direct injection has to offer.
Thanks Dougal. So rotary is lucricated by fuel. I take it the removal of sulphur hasn't helped the rotary pumps.
And if I understand it correctly, when an engine gets new oil, so does the inline pump?
Anyway, my vote goes to any diesel engine that doesn't have a computer or a turbo, you want most simple after all. 3B, 13B, 2H.
And if I understand it correctly, when an engine gets new oil, so does the inline pump?
Anyway, my vote goes to any diesel engine that doesn't have a computer or a turbo, you want most simple after all. 3B, 13B, 2H.
IMO the sulphur issue is scaremongering. NZ has had low sulphur diesel for about 10 years now and ultra low sulhur diesel since about 2003/2004. I'm not aware of any diesels that have had issues caused by it and we have a very high proportion of diesel vehicles on the road.
Why do you want a diesel without a turbo? You'd have to be retired to love one of those.
Electronic diesels conjure up a lot of fear in people, but it usually has no base. Unless you're immersing everything in water it's not an issue. Two of the diesel vehicles in my fleet right now are electronically controlled.
What are you going to put it in? If it is a 40 series then the best bet, if $ is a limiting factor, is the 3B. It would even be fine in a 60 series. You really need to list your intentions to help the discussion.
The 3b is the most simple/reliable capable engine in the discussion so far. I should say from an economical point of view, including acquisition and operation, acquisition being the biggest factor.
If a little more $ is available then the 1HZ would be next, it is my next project.
Put a turbo on the 3B, no need to lower the compression ratio like the silly other conversation in another post
trying to re-invent the wheel and making life difficult for themselves. Set your boost at a moderate 7-9 psi and take your time, afterall it is a Cruiser!
The 3B may have its trouble when it comes to SOME parts but most are still easily available. Just look for a rusted out BJ60 up here in good ol Canada with under 300000 km and a H55f. The can be had for $2500 and under. You get all the parts for your swap. Just reseal the engine before you put it in, this includes a head gasket, Toyota only, and new precups. You will be good for another 300000 km easily if you maintain it properly. Mine had over 350000 and compression was all over 400 psi.
Just my opinion and what I did for myself several years ago. I have since sold the truck but loved every minute with her for 10 years and may do another one someday.
Cheers,
Daryl
The 3b is the most simple/reliable capable engine in the discussion so far. I should say from an economical point of view, including acquisition and operation, acquisition being the biggest factor.
If a little more $ is available then the 1HZ would be next, it is my next project.
Put a turbo on the 3B, no need to lower the compression ratio like the silly other conversation in another post
trying to re-invent the wheel and making life difficult for themselves. Set your boost at a moderate 7-9 psi and take your time, afterall it is a Cruiser! The 3B may have its trouble when it comes to SOME parts but most are still easily available. Just look for a rusted out BJ60 up here in good ol Canada with under 300000 km and a H55f. The can be had for $2500 and under. You get all the parts for your swap. Just reseal the engine before you put it in, this includes a head gasket, Toyota only, and new precups. You will be good for another 300000 km easily if you maintain it properly. Mine had over 350000 and compression was all over 400 psi.
Just my opinion and what I did for myself several years ago. I have since sold the truck but loved every minute with her for 10 years and may do another one someday.
Cheers,
Daryl
sheesh, first you don't read the post completely. the 750K 3b was in the yellow BJ60 i sold to Bruce. he still had the original odometer in it. it was not opened up for anything till i tore it down after i bought it and rebuilt the engine for another truck.
what was the history of the dead 3B you towed home? well maintained, never overheated, one owner vehicle?
then you say, "Yes there are 1HD-T's here with over 500,000km on them with reportedly nothing but servicing."
and then post up a bunch of links but none over 500K on them? and you have the gaul to call them high mileage?!?!
Dougal, old Kiwi buddy, you need to set down the crack pipe and come back into the real world.
i have no problem with your doubting my statements, it isn't the first time you called me a liar.
but
facts are facts and the IDI engines are not the time bombs you are trying to make them out to be.
plus, you just insulted every 3B owner on this forum. not a nice thing to do there buddy boy.
curious, if the DI engines are so clean burning and so reliable then why do the mines not run them but will run the IDI engines?
what was the history of the dead 3B you towed home? well maintained, never overheated, one owner vehicle?
then you say, "Yes there are 1HD-T's here with over 500,000km on them with reportedly nothing but servicing."
and then post up a bunch of links but none over 500K on them? and you have the gaul to call them high mileage?!?!
Dougal, old Kiwi buddy, you need to set down the crack pipe and come back into the real world.
i have no problem with your doubting my statements, it isn't the first time you called me a liar.
but
facts are facts and the IDI engines are not the time bombs you are trying to make them out to be.
plus, you just insulted every 3B owner on this forum. not a nice thing to do there buddy boy.
curious, if the DI engines are so clean burning and so reliable then why do the mines not run them but will run the IDI engines?
It was a delivery truck that would do 150km runs into a 1000m mountain pass. None of the drivers I met ever mentioned overheating.
Maintained? You can't maintain precombustion cups, you can only deal with the carnage when they break.
then you say, "Yes there are 1HD-T's here with over 500,000km on them with reportedly nothing but servicing."
and then post up a bunch of links but none over 500K on them? and you have the gaul to call them high mileage?!?!
That is high mileage, most vehicles are scrapped long before that. Which is why you don't see 500+ 000km vehicles for sale, they're not worth selling.
See it's not worth the trouble of hunting down a current owner of a 500+ 000km vehicle just so I can take a photo and post it on the internet. The guy who had 480,000km on his 1HD-T powered 80 back in 2003 probably doesn't have it any more.
Dougal, old Kiwi buddy, you need to set down the crack pipe and come back into the real world.
i have no problem with your doubting my statements, it isn't the first time you called me a liar.
but
facts are facts and the IDI engines are not the time bombs you are trying to make them out to be.
plus, you just insulted every 3B owner on this forum. not a nice thing to do there buddy boy.
I haven't called you a liar, nor insulted any engine owners. But you're free to imagine what you like.
I just point out the simple realities and limitations of the obselete indirect injection motors. To claim those limitations and realities don't exist seems a little silly.
The 3B owners themselves know the danger from pre-combustion cups cracking and falling in. They're also adept at hunting down replacement heads worldwide in better materials to alleviate the pro
curious, if the DI engines are so clean burning and so reliable then why do the mines not run them but will run the IDI engines?
Because all the toyota di cruiser engines are turbocharged and turbochargers are an exposed heat source they don't like underground.
Good read
Hmmm
No more talk of 2 h parts plentiful parts not around.... Way more power than the b...
But y'all da experts
I also know of a few 2Hs over 500K. One of them is just now getting a turbo.
Of course, lets not forget Nissan Industrial's/Volvo's TD4.2. Many of them well over 500K and a few over 1M.
Crappy IDIs, eh?
Of course, lets not forget Nissan Industrial's/Volvo's TD4.2. Many of them well over 500K and a few over 1M.
Crappy IDIs, eh?
I also know of a few 2Hs over 500K. One of them is just now getting a turbo.
Of course, lets not forget Nissan Industrial's/Volvo's TD4.2. Many of them well over 500K and a few over 1M.
****py IDIs, eh?
The TD42 is indeed one of the toughest IDI engines around, one that has no issues turbocharged.
Bet you wouldn't swap yours for a 1HZ or 2H.
The really strange thing is Nissan seem to have given up on making light truck engines. Their current light trucks are hino powered.
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Which rig? The 42 (13BT) or the 73?... or the spare 3B w/ rotary pump I have in my garage?
BJ73.
Your 13BT will have an inline.
I don't like the rotary pumps at all. Garbage compared to the inlines when longevity is the main factor.
~John
I've never driven a HJ60, so can't really compare it to my TD4.2. My one experience was a 105 with a 1HZ in East Timor. It was disappointing with the T-case giving out half way to our destination. The Delica and Pajero with their 2.5L seemed to be much more durable than the 105. I can tell you that the 1HZ was a lot soother and quieter than the TD4.2.
So, yes it would be unlikely I would swap mine TD4.2s for a 1HZ or a 2H. However, I would not say no to an HJ60 either. From what I have seen of club members' vehicles is these are very capable old school engines. The same goes with the ones I know running the 3Bs. Sure they have week points. All engines have wek points which become regular maintenance items - just like the BEB in the 1HDTs.
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I have seen LOTS of high mileage 3Bs - like well in excess of 500,000 kms that run really well and have never been rebuilt. Usually the rest of the vehicle gives up before the drivetrain in our rust inducing environment.
My own BJ42 (which has been parked for a number of years) has almost 500,000 Kms on it and runs better than many lower mileage units. The engine is the least of my concerns, the rusting body is a concern.
I regularly run compression tests on diesels and it's more about maintenance, oil changes, and not running the bag off the thing than anything else. In fact, I hardly even consider mileage when testing and determining the health of a diesel - I focus on the numbers and maintenance. Virtually all of the 3Bs that have had pre-cup problems, which I have seen, have been overheated - and I wouldn't say that it's a really common problem. There are also cam bearing problems with the 3Bs from time to time (the front bearing turns and blocks top end lubrication), but it's not a really common problem from what I have experienced so far.
I cannot say the same thing for the 2H. I have seen many, many examples that have suffered a pre-mature end due to the piston ring issue. But there are those that also last a really long time with few issues.
The 13BT (so far, my experience is limited to a few years only as they are relatively recent on our shores) are very robust and can take all kinds of abuse. Same thing for the 12HT. Many of the imports here are running well up into the high 200,000s and mid 300,000s with no troubles at all unless they have been really neglected.
The 1HZs and the 1HDTs that I see - at all kinds of mileages - are running strong and pushing great compression numbers. Mind, I have not seen any really high milers yet, but a few that are getting up there. I have one client with a former mine truck - lots of things are severely worn from being in the mine - but the PZ engine runs superbly.
The biggest issue we have with the JDM 1Hx series is that they suffer from pre-mature injector and injection pump wear/failures. The ULSD fuels are a problem with seal and gasket failure, and it would appear (and from what the local pump shops indicate) that the ULSD is also a problem for wear of internal parts. Also, the ACSD is a potential problem that can be devastating when it lets go.
In the petrol engine world, there are many of the F series that have very high mileage on them. I have one customer who has a 2F with +/- 750,000 kms on it and it has not been rebuilt - only good maintenance.
There are people out there who definitely choose non-turbo IDI engines over DI and turbo. I prefer the DI and turbo for the power. I do not think that an engine that is respected and maintained should have any problems with longevity, though bad things do happen from time to time.
Please don't get me going on the 2LTEs. Junk through and through.
~John
My own BJ42 (which has been parked for a number of years) has almost 500,000 Kms on it and runs better than many lower mileage units. The engine is the least of my concerns, the rusting body is a concern.
I regularly run compression tests on diesels and it's more about maintenance, oil changes, and not running the bag off the thing than anything else. In fact, I hardly even consider mileage when testing and determining the health of a diesel - I focus on the numbers and maintenance. Virtually all of the 3Bs that have had pre-cup problems, which I have seen, have been overheated - and I wouldn't say that it's a really common problem. There are also cam bearing problems with the 3Bs from time to time (the front bearing turns and blocks top end lubrication), but it's not a really common problem from what I have experienced so far.
I cannot say the same thing for the 2H. I have seen many, many examples that have suffered a pre-mature end due to the piston ring issue. But there are those that also last a really long time with few issues.
The 13BT (so far, my experience is limited to a few years only as they are relatively recent on our shores) are very robust and can take all kinds of abuse. Same thing for the 12HT. Many of the imports here are running well up into the high 200,000s and mid 300,000s with no troubles at all unless they have been really neglected.
The 1HZs and the 1HDTs that I see - at all kinds of mileages - are running strong and pushing great compression numbers. Mind, I have not seen any really high milers yet, but a few that are getting up there. I have one client with a former mine truck - lots of things are severely worn from being in the mine - but the PZ engine runs superbly.
The biggest issue we have with the JDM 1Hx series is that they suffer from pre-mature injector and injection pump wear/failures. The ULSD fuels are a problem with seal and gasket failure, and it would appear (and from what the local pump shops indicate) that the ULSD is also a problem for wear of internal parts. Also, the ACSD is a potential problem that can be devastating when it lets go.
In the petrol engine world, there are many of the F series that have very high mileage on them. I have one customer who has a 2F with +/- 750,000 kms on it and it has not been rebuilt - only good maintenance.
There are people out there who definitely choose non-turbo IDI engines over DI and turbo. I prefer the DI and turbo for the power. I do not think that an engine that is respected and maintained should have any problems with longevity, though bad things do happen from time to time.
Please don't get me going on the 2LTEs. Junk through and through.
~John
Most simple diesel engine, hmmm well it should be a 4 cylinder (less moving parts) than a 6
The most bang for your buck will be ............................. the 4B-T Cummins in the colour beige!
1 Reliable
2 Efficient
3 Lots of parts
4 Is not plaged by high EGTs (because it a higher boost motor)
5 Sounds like a diesel
6 They are resonably priced
They come in Normal, Aftercooled and Intercooled applications
I was the third person in Canada to have a 1990 Dodge Cummins W250 when most of you guys were asking , "what is a diesel"? That was a lonely time! A good time too because I was getting close to 30 mpg in a 3/4 4x4
The most bang for your buck will be ............................. the 4B-T Cummins in the colour beige!
1 Reliable
2 Efficient
3 Lots of parts
4 Is not plaged by high EGTs (because it a higher boost motor)
5 Sounds like a diesel
6 They are resonably priced
They come in Normal, Aftercooled and Intercooled applications
I was the third person in Canada to have a 1990 Dodge Cummins W250 when most of you guys were asking , "what is a diesel"? That was a lonely time! A good time too because I was getting close to 30 mpg in a 3/4 4x4
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I may indeed fit into the geriatric category but I don't fit into the retired category Dougal.
