Mitsubishi 4D34-2AT3B diesel swap into 96 FZJ80

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Mine is clean as a whistle at speed, but off idle and on acceleration it smokes... like a Fuso! I still have the stock tailpipe pointing straight back, so it can be difficult to see, but I had someone else drive it and it's quite noticeable.

well my tailpipe is side exit and I can aim the rearview right at it, I see nothing. An occasional random puff that is barely visible at best.

Were you talking 68 mph corrected or indicated? I think we both have the speedometer off by a similar percentage, I routinely drive it at 75 mph indicated, which equates to even more actual. It won't pull any kind of decent hill at that speed, but neither did the 1FZ.

Indicated, and we both have 33's. It won't pull a hill at 50MPH in 3rd gear.

A couple of things you can easily check - see if the resistance for the MAP sensor changes when you feed it pressure (up to about 20PSI) I unplugged the pressure line from mine and the truck ran basically like you are describing.

I had considered a MAP sensor issue. I am going back to the local Fuso dealer tomorrow and they have a few fuso's on the lot that they use for parts. I'm picking up a new lift pump (since mine leaks a small amount from the primer as you pump it) and I'm going to see if they have a spare used MAP sensor laying around. Even if mine is good, it would be good to have a spare on hand.

Fuel starvation is also a definite possibility. They are bad for ingesting air at the banjo bolt washers. I had to replace them all in order to get it to suck from the tank. It would only leak air in, and not fuel out. Took me a while to figure that one out!

I used straight copper washers everywhere when I plumbed it originally. I purchased new rubber coated washers from Mitsu and I will replace everything with them when I install the new lift pump and replumb things. I am also adding clear tube on the return at the same time. I want to know for sure that fuel volume and air are no longer issues and go from there.
 
I think you are on the right track. BTW, the primer pump is a common stock item for injector rebuild shops. There is a new smaller bosch pump that swaps right in and it is cheap. The lift pump is super simple and you can get rebuild kits as well. I would buy the kit and the primer pump new instead of trying to get a used lift pump. I have a spare I can send you with the governor, it needs a rebuild but maybe you could mess with it while you drive the truck, minimize downtime.



well my tailpipe is side exit and I can aim the rearview right at it, I see nothing. An occasional random puff that is barely visible at best.



Indicated, and we both have 33's. It won't pull a hill at 50MPH in 3rd gear.



I had considered a MAP sensor issue. I am going back to the local Fuso dealer tomorrow and they have a few fuso's on the lot that they use for parts. I'm picking up a new lift pump (since mine leaks a small amount from the primer as you pump it) and I'm going to see if they have a spare used MAP sensor laying around. Even if mine is good, it would be good to have a spare on hand.



I used straight copper washers everywhere when I plumbed it originally. I purchased new rubber coated washers from Mitsu and I will replace everything with them when I install the new lift pump and replumb things. I am also adding clear tube on the return at the same time. I want to know for sure that fuel volume and air are no longer issues and go from there.
 
I think you are on the right track. BTW, the primer pump is a common stock item for injector rebuild shops. There is a new smaller bosch pump that swaps right in and it is cheap. The lift pump is super simple and you can get rebuild kits as well. I would buy the kit and the primer pump new instead of trying to get a used lift pump. I have a spare I can send you with the governor, it needs a rebuild but maybe you could mess with it while you drive the truck, minimize downtime.

I wasn't aware of that, I actually bought a new fuso pump, not new to me, new all together.

Also, if I've had fuel supply issues al along, I'm wondering if that was mitigating everything I was messing with when it came to the resistor, sub rack sensor, etc. The ECU very well might have been trying to add more fuel, but without a supply it wasn't happening. I plan on putting the stock resistor back in, turning the boost down, etc.
 
I wasn't aware of that, I actually bought a new fuso pump, not new to me, new all together.

Also, if I've had fuel supply issues al along, I'm wondering if that was mitigating everything I was messing with when it came to the resistor, sub rack sensor, etc. The ECU very well might have been trying to add more fuel, but without a supply it wasn't happening. I plan on putting the stock resistor back in, turning the boost down, etc.

Sounds like you maybe on to something, I know the prim pump on my brothers 2H was letting air in it turned his truck into a misfiring dog. If its a fuel supply issue it certainly would have mitigated any of the test you did previous.

It would also explain the huge difference you two seem to be experiencing.
 
Sounds like you maybe on to something, I know the prim pump on my brothers 2H was letting air in it turned his truck into a misfiring dog. If its a fuel supply issue it certainly would have mitigated any of the test you did previous.

It would also explain the huge difference you two seem to be experiencing.

We'll find out this weekend!!!
 
On a separate note about upping the power on this engine.

I spoke with DW Diesel, honestly the only shop I've spoken to so far that had any clue about the Zexel TICS pumps. When I asked about adding more power, the response was "we've done that already"

After a lengthy discussion about the MD-TICS pump with the RED III governor (99-04 4D34), it is basically impossible to do without ripping into the ECU. They have had guys try to fool the rack position sensor with resistors, and that doesn't work. The ECU has a table that compares target rack position with the voltage applied to the governor, and if they don't jive, the engine does all sorts of strange things.

The best solution was to swap in a MD-TICS RED II pump off of a 91-98 4D34T. The pump is still of the pre-stroke type, but it uses a traditional throttle cable and has a fuel screw to adjust in a very similar manner to the Isuzu 4BD pumps. Basically everything in front of the governor is the same, the governor housing is different. It may even possible to just swap the governor housings. The TICS ECU for the 91-98 engines is much simpler, and considering the trans computer is standalone it would be a relatively easy conversion (save the TPS input to the TCU)

He said they can even modify those pumps for more fuel (beyond what the screw can do) and modify the injectors for more flow. This is obviously way more than what I'm looking for, but it is nice to know the potential is there.

My local fuso dealer will sell me a used RED II pump for $300, I'll probably take them up on it.
 
After a lengthy discussion about the MD-TICS pump with the RED III governor (99-04 4D34), it is basically impossible to do without ripping into the ECU.

Step 1.
Take the cover off the ECU and post up a photo of the chips inside.:cheers:
 
Wow, that is a very good source of information. The only issue I can see with this is how to utilize the TCM. If you are already going with a standalone TCM, it would be a no brainer. 300 is cheap for one of these, it might really be worth it.

Personally I am happy with the power it puts out. It's not a rocketship but it is very close to the original 1FZ. It's probably slightly slower on the highway, but it feels 10X stronger off the line and at lower speeds. One of he reasons I have not really spent much time looking for more power is that I am cool with the truck the way it is. I had assumed that getting more power would be relatively straightforward but now it looks like the difficulty in getting more than 145 hp may be the limiting factor here.

I think that I would rather go the route of a custom tune instead of messing with a standalone controller. The other option would be to swap a Fuso Aisin converter and bellhousing onto an A440F or fully hydraulic A442F (NON-USA). This could use a fully mechanical 4D34T and mechanical trans. All bolt in, and ready to go, and likely more power potential, plus the shift points might be better suited to the type of vehicle we are dealing with.

Were you able to contact the people with the Fuso ECU on craigs? Would your dealer have an ECU that can be bought for testing/remapping?
 
Sorry, I posted to the wrong thread :o
 
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Well that explains why Fromage and my trucks both don't even have input from VSS-2 to the TCM. Thanks Astr!

I am still unsure if I get lockup in second, I haven't really tried to figure it out to be honest with you. I get lockup in 3rd and OD, but it will only occur when traveling faster than 48MPH. It will remain locked when decreasing speed down to 43ish MPH, but won't relock until 48MPH is achieved again. Honestly, transmission behavior is no longer a concern of mine. Once I added a quart of ATF and got more miles on the trans (bedding in the clutches I assume), it performs beatifully. The ONLY thing I'd like to change about it is the speed at which the converter will lock. 40MPH would be nice. I have yet to connect my "Power" button to the TCU, but I plan on doing that this weekend if I get the opportunity.




On the topic of power... I replaced my lift pump with a new OEM Zexel pump, I ran 1/2" hard line from the tank to the water separator, and I now have 3/8 from the separator to the lift pump. I put clear line on the return side and confirmed I have no air in the system. The new lift pump came with a new gauze filter. No difference in power output.

I then bumped the timing back up, which definitely improved the throttle response and low end, but minimal difference in top end power. EGTs are very low now, they never get over 1000 degrees regardless of engine load/vehicle speed/gear selection.

20.25 MPG US on the last tank!!! 500+ miles and the light never even came on. Gotta love the 38 gallon tank...





I have a theory about the apparent drop in power. This is 100% a theory, but it's all I've got at this point.

When the truck lost all its power, it wasn't a gradual change. It was litterally one day it felt mediocre, the next day it felt like it lost 30HP and could no longer go faster than 68MPH. It was as if a switch was flipped, not something wore out. Yes, it coincided with the injector R&R, but the low end feels better since the injectors were changed and the truck idles better.

The truck feels the same as it always did between 0% and 50% throttle. Now, there is litterally no difference between 50% and 100% throttle. I can just slap the accelerator pedal between 50% and 100% repeatedly and nothing changes. No change in boost, EGT, nothing. And yes, I checked the TPS output and it is functioning exactly as the FSM states it should.

Remember a few weeks ago when I was playing with the fuel rate resistor? I tried the highest setting and lowest setting with no effect? I thought maybe the throttle response was a little better at the lowest setting, but no concrete evidence of it. Placebo effect probably.

Well, I had left the potentiometer in at the lowest setting without thinking about it again.

Side note:
GM 1994-2000-something 6.5L diesels also have a fuel rate adjustment resistor. By changing it they can raise and lower power, by a small amount, but it works. However, the GM ECU only references that resistor on every 50th start. So the effects aren't necessarily immediate. Depending on where you are in the reference cycle, it could be weeks before the change is noticed.

IF, and this is a BIG IF, the Zexel ECU treats its fuel rate resistor in the same way, only referencing it under certain conditions, it may have finally looked at my potentiometer which was currently set at ZERO ohms (which is LOWER than a #1 resistor), and pulled a whole heck of a lot of fuel out.

It is the only explanation I have besides a failure within the injection pump that has caused a sudden loss of fuel flow. Needless to say I now turned the potentiometer up to a high end of the spectrum (#7 setting). I am going to drive the truck as it is for a few weeks and see if the power all of a sudden comes back. If it does, I know the resistor does actually do something. If it doesn't, I'll start shopping for a new injection pump.

If the power does come back, it will be a very simple way to add power to these trucks. The problem will be in how long it takes to realize any changes. If the high resistance adds too much fuel, I will have to drive very carefully until it relearns the next setting I try.

On the GM vehicles a scan tool can be used to force a re-learn (disconnecting the battery does not work). There is no 12V constant to the Zexel ECU, so disconnecting the battery also does nothing. I tried using the "memory clear" wire for the DTCs when I was first playing with the resistor, and that had no effect then and no effect now either. I asked the technician at my local Fuso dealer and he didn't even know what the fuel rate resistor was, let alone any re-learn function. He's worked on these trucks for 30 years... never even knew the resistor existed. When the part number on my stock #3 resistor was put in their system, it didn't even show up.


So, now it's just a wait and see game. I can deal with the piss-poor performance now that it is getting 20MPG. I am literally going to change nothing for the next two-three weeks to see if the resistor changes anything. Stay tuned...
 
Dude. This is so awesome. I am really happy that it's working out better for you and I agree with the logic. On mine, the resistor had a lead seal on it, similar to an adjustment screw on an injection pump. This is why I was almost certain it was full fuel adjustment, or some type of fuel rate adjustment. There is always some variance between pumps and there has to be a mechanism to fine tune for emissions, but they will lock it out so you can't mess with it without voiding warranty and emissions. I think you are on the right track. I guess we will find out soon enough!

The trans shift points settling out is a good thing. I think you will find that the power setting improves things quite a bit.

Being over 20 mpg is huge! I am not there yet but then again I drive it fast and I am always accelerating at full throttle. That turbo whistle is so addictive!!
 
Edit: Just remembered, on expedition portal, I had posted on boosting power output of the 4D3. One of the aussies posted saying that the resistor was somehow related to the pedal position cutoff or something like that. I thought nothing of it, and it did not seem plausible until now. Perhaps the resistor just changes the high point of the fuel adjustment. I know mine seems like the last 30% of the accelerator affects nothing.
Just to confirm, the guys you were talking to that were trying to boost the 4D3 did not know about the resistor?
 
Dude. This is so awesome. I am really happy that it's working out better for you and I agree with the logic. On mine, the resistor had a lead seal on it, similar to an adjustment screw on an injection pump. This is why I was almost certain it was full fuel adjustment, or some type of fuel rate adjustment. There is always some variance between pumps and there has to be a mechanism to fine tune for emissions, but they will lock it out so you can't mess with it without voiding warranty and emissions. I think you are on the right track. I guess we will find out soon enough!

I really hope I'm right... it makes sense to me. There were two things that happened. I drove the truck a lot with the resistor at Zero Ohms, and the truck sat turned off for 2.5 days while I was R&Ring the injectors. I have nowhere to go this thanksgiving weekend, so I'm going to park the truck for 3 days to see if that forces a relearn (like a capacitor needs to fully discharge or something), and if that doesn't work I'll keep driving it to see if it is based on key-starts. I should have logged the number of starts, but I forgot. It would be nice to know for sure though. If this works and I end up needing to back it down some, I'll be sure to log it.

The trans shift points settling out is a good thing. I think you will find that the power setting improves things quite a bit.

The trans is the best aspect of the truck. I've never built an automatic before, so knowing that my first attempt is functioning so well right under the seat of my pants is a nice feeling.

The only really odd behavior is when it is in 3rd locked up and then shifts to 4th. The timing of the unlock>shift>lock seems odd, but it could very well just be "the way it is".

Being over 20 mpg is huge! I am not there yet but then again I drive it fast and I am always accelerating at full throttle. That turbo whistle is so addictive!!

With the power the truck is making now, the throttle could be a toggle switch. It's full throttle from every light and that's the economy it got. I think your lockup issue is robbing you of a couple MPG.

Edit: Just remembered, on expedition portal, I had posted on boosting power output of the 4D3. One of the aussies posted saying that the resistor was somehow related to the pedal position cutoff or something like that. I thought nothing of it, and it did not seem plausible until now. Perhaps the resistor just changes the high point of the fuel adjustment. I know mine seems like the last 30% of the accelerator affects nothing.
Just to confirm, the guys you were talking to that were trying to boost the 4D3 did not know about the resistor?

I saw your post there, been trolling for a while. I don't really know if he knew for sure what it was for, or if anyone really knows for sure other than Zexel.

The technicians at the Fuso dealer had no idea what the resistor was or that it even existed. They gave me contact info for two Pump Shops that specialize in Zexel stuff. They didn't know either...

I am in the process of writing an email to Zexel's Corporate Tech Department in hopes of getting more info, but I'm not optimistic at all.
 
So you've tried disconnecting the battery, using the brake pedal to drain any residual power and leaving it off for 12 hours?
 
Tried disconnecting the battery and using the brake pedal to drain power. Left it disconnected for 36+ hours. reconnected and no change. Must be a drive cycle thing, or the resistor really does nothing and my IP is just screwed up.

On a side note, the resistance of the fuel rate resistor changes when it is installed. Basically, it is a parallel component to an internal circuit in the ECU.
 
UPDATE!!! (11/29/11) Tachometer Needle Installation

Also updated the original post here:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...-diesel-swap-into-96-fzj80-5.html#post7079105

You MUST install the cluster and put the key in the "ON" position BEFORE installing the needle. The tach will "zero" itself when power is applied, failure to do this will result in improper needle placement. In my case, I installed the needle at "0" and installed the cluster. When I powered on the truck, the needle shot to 1600RPM with the truck off. Obviously this wasn't right. So I removed the cluster cover, needle, and then put the key in the "ON" position before installing the needle in the "0" position.

I then ran into the following problem:

This is fairly important. The 0-1k RPM section of the LC tachometer uses smaller increments than the rest of the tach. The Fuso tachometer is even spacing for all increments. So installing the needle at "0" results in the tach reading 300RPM high everywhere above 1000RPM. This was verified by doing the math for appropriate RPM readings for indicated speeds while the converter is locked.

How did I fix this? I installed the needle at what looked like 300RPM BELOW the "0" (Yes, UNDER the stop pin). The needle has enough flex to allow it to be "convinced" over the stop pin to the zero position after installation. The result? The tach is almost 100% accurate above 1000RPM, and reads a little low at idle (shows 700RPM at idle, where the dealers MUT-II tool showed 750RPM). I still feel this was the best possible approach to solving the tach issue in the 80 with this conversion. It has been working flawlessly for 1000+ miles.
 
According to Arundel Diesel & Performance in Maryland, the fuel injection rate adjustment resistor does control the max fuel rate. It is used to calibrate the pump and to help dirtier trucks meet emissions requirements. They also said the unlike the GM Diesels, on this truck, a higher resistance means LESS fuel, not more. Looks like it's time for an injection pump rebuild.
 
I just posted in Fromage thread after he posted about the noticeable difference in performance on a non up to temp engine vs it when its up to op temp. Have you checked the coolant temp sensor and easy stuff first?
 
Wheelingnoob said:
I just posted in Fromage thread after he posted about the noticeable difference in performance on a non up to temp engine vs it when its up to op temp. Have you checked the coolant temp sensor and easy stuff first?

Just read his thread as well. Going to check that today.
 

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