Methods of gaining Track Width (1 Viewer)

[GLTHFJ60]

I'm planning on building out a new front axle for my truck and want more track width. I've got a FJ60 front housing, 6 shooter knuckles, a FZJ80 e-locker and need to pick a method of widening the FJ60 housing.

There are two methods I've narrowed it down to:

1. Welding in axle spacers between the housing and knuckle balls to increase track width, with 4Runner calipers:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=6148026&postcount=16

2. Switching out to IFS hubs and running Tundra brakes:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=6927254&postcount=540


What are the pros and cons of both? For DD / wheeling use, which would you go with?

I really like the idea of running larger rotors and calipers up front, but not sure if the IFS hubs would cause an issue in that it seems to put more load on the outer wheel bearing instead of the inner.

Any input?

 

[Tapage]

looks like will be the same as some sort of wheel spacers without the extra studs and nuts ..

I've been running 2" wheel spacers in Tencha since 2004 and never had a single issue with 'em .. yet ( knocking wood )

 

[inkpot]

#1 requires replacement axle shafts, maybe custom, depending on how you do it.

#2 is worth about 1.5 inch on each side, can be done with a variety of rotors and calipers, especially if you make up rotor spacers.

#3 is whatever wheel spacer you want to add. Lots of us are running 1 - 1.5 - 2" with no long term problems.

I have not seen any problems with Toyotas wheel bearings regardless of tire size and wheel/hub offset, as long as maintenance is kept up. John

 

[The Dude]

I had the IFS hubs and I wouldn't put it any better then running a wheel spacer (which I also ran with IFS hubs and without). I never had bearing issues. I had bending axle issues. Your focal length become the issue from the spring perch out. Make sure to gusset the balls (I did) and the housing (I didn't). Or get rid of those pesky springs and go coil overs (I am)

#4 option is to go with a ruff stuff or diamond housing.

If you go that route needing new axle shafts (same with cutting your 60 series housing) I would take a serious look at going to 80 series outers. WAY bigger brakes, bigger birfs and high steer is now available.

 

[rain76king]

How much track width are you shooting for?
I have been looking at trying to throw the 80 front under my 40.
I think it can be done but understand that there's some steering issues to overcome but I can't imagine it's impossible.

I'm guessing you probably have already researched this idea though.

I'm still pretty new to the world of 40s.
If you found any good write ups on it let me know!

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Thanks for the input guys.

1. Replacement shafts necessary, but in either case, I'm going to be ordering inner axles from Bobby. If I went with option #2, then I'd have stock spares, but they wouldn't allow my locker to work anyway.

2. Not a huge fan of the spacer route, although you guys are right, the IFS hubs aren't much better, aside from eliminating 1/2 of the studs / bolts. The IFS hubs do allow me to run the Tundra brakes, which are significantly larger than stock, and allows me to much more easily swap out broken inner axles, as the wheel bearing assembly doesn't have to be disassembled.

3. I've already got 1.5" wheel spacers at each corner. I put them on to fit the pits, but I'm not a huge fan of them. It feels like a workaround as opposed to a full solution. Doesn't sit right with me.

4. If I were to spend that much on a front axle housing ( housing alone, not innards ), I'd rather upgrade to a 1 ton axle.

I briefly considered running 80 outers, but I got a smokin deal on my 6-shooters. I'm looking to get ~64" WMS ( 80 width IIRC ) to match the FZJ80 rear axle I'm going to run.

Considering that the bearings seem to be a non-issue, I'm leaning towards the IFS hub route. I'll be able to use my existing spares and use larger brakes at the same time. I'll make sure to gusset both the knuckle balls as well as the housing, thanks Brad!

 

[handcannon]

Part of method #2 is where I've been very sloooowwwly going. I already have a 60 series axle housing and the IFS hubs. Brakes have been my concern. I've found where I can get a spacer that goes between the hub and rotor to allow the 60 series or 4runner calipers to be used in stock form on the knuckle.

IF- I'm seeing things correctly the Tundra system needs a conversion bracket similar to the one used on the rear axle for the Monte Carlo disc conversion. This bracket bolts on where the axle hub bolts to the knuckle. Then the caliper bolts to this bracket. Then the Tundra rotor goes on the IFS wheel hub. This then gives a complete brake system without any spacers.

I hope my vision is correct and this is what I'm seeing. I like the larger brakes AND no spacer thing.

My big question is, where do I get the bracket to mount the caliper.

My next question is, since I'm not familiar with the Tundra, what rim size does it use, 16" or 17".

Don

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Part of method #2 is where I've been very sloooowwwly going. I already have a 60 series axle housing and the IFS hubs. Brakes have been my concern. I've found where I can get a spacer that goes between the hub and rotor to allow the 60 series or 4runner calipers to be used in stock form on the knuckle.

IF- I'm seeing things correctly the Tundra system needs a conversion bracket similar to the one used on the rear axle for the Monte Carlo disc conversion. This bracket bolts on where the axle hub bolts to the knuckle. Then the caliper bolts to this bracket. Then the Tundra rotor goes on the IFS wheel hub. This then gives a complete brake system without any spacers.

I hope my vision is correct and this is what I'm seeing. I like the larger brakes AND no spacer thing.

My big question is, where do I get the bracket to mount the caliper.

My next question is, since I'm not familiar with the Tundra, what rim size does it use, 16" or 17".

Don

Don, yes, that is correct. That's what I'm thinking as well,

The new Tundras seems to come with 17" wheels, but it looks like the 05 and 06 models, at least, came with 16" wheels. The TSB that baxter650 mentioned was for all Tundras, so that makes me think that the larger Tundra brakes will fit under a 16" wheel.

No way to know without putting it together!

 

[The Dude]

what year tundra are you using as a donor?

I have and 06 with factory 16" rims and the big brakes. A 3.75" steel 16" rim that I had on my cruiser does not clear as the dish is not steep enough. I ground off a fair bit of material and I couldn't get them to work without a 3/16th spacer.

The factory rims are just fine.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

what year tundra are you using as a donor?

I have and 06 with factory 16" rims and the big brakes. A 3.75" steel 16" rim that I had on my cruiser does not clear as the dish is not steep enough. I ground off a fair bit of material and I couldn't get them to work without a 3/16th spacer.

The factory rims are just fine.

I haven't fully planned it out yet, but 06 was what I was researching.

Do you know what the backspacing is on the factory 16" Tundra rims?

 

[The Dude]

I will have to measure to be sure but I think it's 4.5" which I believe is the same as the 17" FJ cruiser rims? They are off the truck so I can find out pretty quick.

In reality, you need to find the rims you want FIRST and then make the axle width to work with those rims. Your WMS to WMS should only be considered after you know if you want a 2" BS rim (bad) or a 6" BS rim (good) or some where in the middle.

Don't forget you need to clear the TRE and drag link end. The highsteer helps with that, but a 20" rim could be a nice option as well.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I will have to measure to be sure but I think it's 4.5" which I believe is the same as the 17" FJ cruiser rims? They are off the truck so I can find out pretty quick.

In reality, you need to find the rims you want FIRST and then make the axle width to work with those rims. Your WMS to WMS should only be considered after you know if you want a 2" BS rim (bad) or a 6" BS rim (good) or some where in the middle.

Don't forget you need to clear the TRE and drag link end. The highsteer helps with that, but a 20" rim could be a nice option as well.

TRE shouldn't be an issue with the IFS hubs because the WMS is so far away from the knuckle. Unless you have a super deep backspace, the wheel shouldn't come near the TREs.

I've got FZJ80 alloys that I'm running on the street now, which are 4.5" BS. Sounds like those will work with the Tundra brakes pretty well. Off-road rims will change however, but I'm enjoying the 3.5" BS that my current set has. My thought is that if you shoot for a WMS track width that you can adjust the actual track-width of the truck with different wheel backspacings and tire widths. Increasing the WMS track width will get me into the range I'm looking for, then I can adjust from there with the wheels I select. Is that logical?

As long as 4.5"" BS 16" diameter wheels work, I think I'll be golden.

 

[inkpot]

I will have to measure to be sure but I think it's 4.5" which I believe is the same as the 17" FJ cruiser rims? They are off the truck so I can find out pretty quick.

In reality, you need to find the rims you want FIRST and then make the axle width to work with those rims. Your WMS to WMS should only be considered after you know if you want a 2" BS rim (bad) or a 6" BS rim (good) or some where in the middle.

Don't forget you need to clear the TRE and drag link end. The highsteer helps with that, but a 20" rim could be a nice option as well.

Problem with going to a 20" rim is you loose a lot of sidewall flex. Might also limit tire choices

 

[The Dude]

Problem with going to a 20" rim is you loose a lot of sidewall flex. Might also limit tire choices

Just jump up to a 39.5"+ tire...

 

[GLTHFJ60]

To get the same track width as the FZJ80 rear ( 64" WMS ), I think I've decided on doing a FJ60 front with one spacer and the IFS hubs. The hubs allow me to get better brakes and the extra 3" from the spacer brings me all the way up to 64".

Custom axles will be needed, but as I mentioned an order with Bobby long is necessary anyway.

Thanks for the input guys

 

[mookie]

Get a old fj40 rear housing and combine it with your front axle parts, you'll obviously need new inner axles but can gain up to 5" in width for cheap

 

[bustanutley]

The only correct way to do it is to widen the center of the axle. If you add 3" worth of spacers your trunions and knuckle balls will hate you You will also have a really awful scrub radius. The best situation is a wide axle with heavily offset wheels.

The tundra brakes are a good upgrade, they fit fine with 17" steel wheels, I did have the grind the face of the caliper a little bit thou.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

The only correct way to do it is to widen the center of the axle. If you add 3" worth of spacers your trunions and knuckle balls will hate you You will also have a really awful scrub radius. The best situation is a wide axle with heavily offset wheels.

The tundra brakes are a good upgrade, they fit fine with 17" steel wheels, I did have the grind the face of the caliper a little bit thou.

That mean that the IFS hubs aren't a good way to run? I know that the scrub radius will be increased, but with proper trussing and gusseting, I don't think the housing will be an issue. Can't do the Tundra brakes without them.

I'm planning on running the TG Trunion Eliminator kit I've got, so that should eliminate the trunion problem.

 

[bustanutley]

I think I miss interpreted what you wrote. I thought your last post was saying ifs hubs + a spacer for 3" per side..

1.5" spacer of the hubs is a mellow enough change, I wouldn't worry about it. I have been using this situation for a long time. I would still rather have a wider axle with deeper wheels however.

Marlin's big knuckle bearing kit is a much better solution for the trunions.

 

[The Dude]

I agree with Mr Nutley,

The IFS alone only gives you a WMS of 61.5" and the 80 series rear is 63" so he will need to add spacers as well. My question is why do you need the IFS hub for the tundra brake upgrade? I know nothing of the swap but running a 3" spacer will mover your rim far enough away it won't be an issue???

I wouldn't wast my time with the IFS if you are running a spacer anyways. There's no difference in running an IFS hub + 1.5" spacer vs running a 3" spacer.

I guess I should take a caliper off the tundra and see if it fits on my non IFS hub and my IFS hub rig?? Is the offset to the disk an issue?

On edit: I run Marlins big trunion bearings and replace them half as often as the OEM. They still get beat out. I haven't tried the TGC eliminators but what I know about that set up on heavy equipment, they are going to get sloppy fast and I wouldn't want them on a DD... or maybe I just don't like TG.