LX570-Tire type/size/ride and overall useablity recommendations

[cubaniche]

Thanks for the insight! After reading through your 4.30 regear thread, I am leaning towards getting the 295/70 now (cause I really need new tires) and collecting the 4.30 regear parts. That will probably give me what I'm looking for in the end. I do want to keep the ability to tow a car trailer and a ~4400 lb car, but as it's something I rarely do I hope I'll be ok until I'm ready for the regear.

I can confirm 4.30s are perfect for these tire sizes (currently on 35x10.50r17 myself). It drives great. I can see the argument for 4.88 but for me, thats a little too over-geared for my needs and driving style. If my LX was a dedicated off road vehicle only then I could see the use case for 4.88s more as that ratio would crawl nicer off road, offer slightly better control. I had 4.56s on my old gx470 on 35s and 5 speed A750F transmission. 4.10s would have matched better on that transmission and the same 35s. 5th gear was screaming along at 2300rpm at 70, which I was not particularly fond of. The 4.30s on the LX with 6 speed on 35s keeps rpms under 2k at 70 still. Best of both worlds if you ask me. But I'll definitely be stepping down to an AT 285/75r17 C rated tire. It should be more comfortable and a bit better handling than the skinny 35s which are an RT tread style and D load rating.

I was thinking about my complaints a but more and I started to wonder if having 30mm spring spacers in the rear was necessary in my use case. My original plan was to have a dual swingout rear bumper as Ive done to my two previous rigs, but I decided against it. However, I had prepped for the added weight of the bumper and set of drawers, by installing the 30mm spring spacers to help the AHC with the weight. Maybe I should remove the spacers altogether or step down to 10 or 20 mm instead, as I do run max sensor lift. Not sure if that would change dynamics at all in the rear.

 

[cubaniche]

Ok. I want to update my little saga. I went ahead and purchased and installed the toyo open country at3s yesterday. As a refresher old tires are:
Kenda Klever 35x10.50r17 RT in a D load rating keeps around 35 psi for daily driving and 42 in the rear for towing
New tires:
Mentioned above in a 285/75R17 AT in a C load rating at 37 psi currently all around

It rides and handles completely different. The AHC seems way way happier. Now, the differences are: 69lbs per tire in the Kendas and 59 per tire with the toyos (saving me roughly 40 lbs of unsprung weight), the new size also drops me about 3/4 of inch (measured with both tire combos mounted and installed so I could compare), but adds another 3/4 inch width at the tread compared to the Kendas. The previous issue with traction control kicking on during a simple turn on to a street while going over some bumps is also gone. I attribute this to the wider tire+softer sidewall in the C load ATs vs the stiffer sidewall on the D load RTs.

My theory, is that the much taller and skinnier than stock tires were transfering too much of the shock of the road to the suspension, instead of absorbing more of the impact by the tire itself. The issues I experienced with the vibrations and odd handling characteristics are gone. I had the truck aligned twice (as previously mentioned in an earlier post at a dedicated off road toyota shop) as well as rebalanced 3 times. None of it seemed to affect the issues I had. The tires were inspected a few times over this saga and we never found anything 'off', like a tire being out of round, or taking way too much weight to balance, etc. The funny thing is that the Toyos balanced out to almost the same numbers as the kendas (a little less wight was needed to balance actually).

The LX def seems lighter on its feet and responds a lot better to throttle input. Though, thats subjective feedback. The shake in the steering wheel is gone (it was minimal and only got more apparent above 70 mph). The VGRS also doesnt seem to be interfering as much as it used (I could feel it kick in trying to re-enter the wheel at times). The VGRS was recalibrated after each alignment as well as a zero point recalibration. All I can say is that the two previous GXs (470 and a 460) that were on aftermarket suspension never experienced these issues with the same Kendas. The only thing I did notice with the slightly wider tire, or maybe its due to the different AT tread pattern vs the RT, is that the vehicle does want to follow ruts in the road a bit more than before. Thats usually typical of a wider tire. They tend to follow 'tracks' in a road more than a narrower tire. Although in my experience that is more noticeable on performance summer tires than on chunky big tires.

Now Im wondering if I should have just gone for the 35x12.50r17 toyos in a C load rating. Those seem to have the same overall hight as the Kendas, but with the added width. The whole point of this was to 1) solve the issues I was having and 2) doing it while decreasing unsprung weight and achieving a softer more compliant ride. Oddly enough, the 35x12.50 toyos in a C load are advertised as having the same weight as the 285/75s at 59 lbs.

 

[TeCKis300]

Ok. I want to update my little saga. I went ahead and purchased and installed the toyo open country at3s yesterday. As a refresher old tires are:
Kenda Klever 35x10.50r17 RT in a D load rating keeps around 35 psi for daily driving and 42 in the rear for towing
New tires:
Mentioned above in a 285/75R17 AT in a C load rating at 37 psi currently all around

It rides and handles completely different. The AHC seems way way happier. Now, the differences are: 69lbs per tire in the Kendas and 59 per tire with the toyos (saving me roughly 40 lbs of unsprung weight), the new size also drops me about 3/4 of inch (measured with both tire combos mounted and installed so I could compare), but adds another 3/4 inch width at the tread compared to the Kendas. The previous issue with traction control kicking on during a simple turn on to a street while going over some bumps is also gone. I attribute this to the wider tire+softer sidewall in the C load ATs vs the stiffer sidewall on the D load RTs.

My theory, is that the much taller and skinnier than stock tires were transfering too much of the shock of the road to the suspension, instead of absorbing more of the impact by the tire itself. The issues I experienced with the vibrations and odd handling characteristics are gone. I had the truck aligned twice (as previously mentioned in an earlier post at a dedicated off road toyota shop) as well as rebalanced 3 times. None of it seemed to affect the issues I had. The tires were inspected a few times over this saga and we never found anything 'off', like a tire being out of round, or taking way too much weight to balance, etc. The funny thing is that the Toyos balanced out to almost the same numbers as the kendas (a little less wight was needed to balance actually).

The LX def seems lighter on its feet and responds a lot better to throttle input. Though, thats subjective feedback. The shake in the steering wheel is gone (it was minimal and only got more apparent above 70 mph). The VGRS also doesnt seem to be interfering as much as it used (I could feel it kick in trying to re-enter the wheel at times). The VGRS was recalibrated after each alignment as well as a zero point recalibration. All I can say is that the two previous GXs (470 and a 460) that were on aftermarket suspension never experienced these issues with the same Kendas. The only thing I did notice with the slightly wider tire, or maybe its due to the different AT tread pattern vs the RT, is that the vehicle does want to follow ruts in the road a bit more than before. Thats usually typical of a wider tire. They tend to follow 'tracks' in a road more than a narrower tire. Although in my experience that is more noticeable on performance summer tires than on chunky big tires.

Now Im wondering if I should have just gone for the 35x12.50r17 toyos in a C load rating. Those seem to have the same overall hight as the Kendas, but with the added width. The whole point of this was to 1) solve the issues I was having and 2) doing it while decreasing unsprung weight and achieving a softer more compliant ride. Oddly enough, the 35x12.50 toyos in a C load are advertised as having the same weight as the 285/75s at 59 lbs.

Glad you're making progress and getting the ride and handling you're looking for!

If I may, it's not AHC. Nor weight of tires.

What's at play is the summation of narrow profile tires, sidewall rolling over, and marginal traction to sufficiently steer the mass of the vehicle.

The LX570 is upwards of 1000-1500lbs heavier than your previous GXs. Perhaps expecting the same size Kendas to do the job on a much heavier vehicle was not realistic?

I've played with enough tire sizes on the LX now, 4 total. For taller profile tires especially, it's useful to go higher in tire pressure to keep the sidewalls from being overly compliant in a turn, even low speeds. It's not that the tires won't steer the vehicle. But it changes the dynamics enough and introduces a level of slip angle outside of calibration. Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) is expecting a certain yaw response per steering input. When it doesn't see that, due to all the contributing factors above, it applies traction control.

It's another major reason I'm a proponent of full fat tires. Because of the geometry and inherent handling traction advantage, there's no need to artificially go higher in tire pressure to account for steering response.

To your question on 35x12.50r17 - I'd encourage it! Beyond just the advantages already stated, it's also a floatation size. I've been digging for more insight but there's suggestions that they're fundamentally constructed differently - for sidewall compliance, traction, and floatation. Versus standard LT sizes that are meant more for weight carrying.

 

[cubaniche]

Glad you're making progress and getting the ride and handling you're looking for!

If I may, it's not AHC. Nor weight of tires.

What's at play is the summation of narrow profile tires, sidewall rolling over, and marginal traction to sufficiently steer the mass of the vehicle.

The LX570 is upwards of 1000-1500lbs heavier than your previous GXs. Perhaps expecting the same size Kendas to do the job on a much heavier vehicle was not realistic?

I've played with enough tire sizes on the LX now, 4 total. For taller profile tires especially, it's useful to go higher in tire pressure to keep the sidewalls from being overly compliant in a turn, even low speeds. It's not that the tires won't steer the vehicle. But it changes the dynamics enough and introduces a level of slip angle outside of calibration. Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) is expecting a certain yaw response per steering input. When it doesn't see that, due to all the contributing factors above, it applies traction control.

It's another major reason I'm a proponent of full fat tires. Because of the geometry and inherent handling traction advantage, there's no need to artificially go higher in tire pressure to account for steering response.

To your question on 35x12.50r17 - I'd encourage it! Beyond just the advantages already stated, it's also a floatation size. I've been digging for more insight but there's suggestions that they're fundamentally constructed differently - for sidewall compliance, traction, and floatation. Versus standard LT sizes that are meant more for weight carrying.

Thanks for the input. Yeah, id say expectations based on past experience jad a lot to do with it for sure. That, amd inexperience with the larger full size 200 series. I dont know if you have any first hand experience with these kendas or not. They are an RT D load rated tire. They have very stiff sidewalls. Like, I can air them down to 10 psi and barely see any bulge when fully loaded with gear. So, as far as the tire rolling over Id have to disagree with that assessment. They are a pretty stiff tire. If they didnt advertise it as a D Id have thought they were E rated tires theyre so stiff. I still feel like AHC just wasnt able to perform as intended with how stiff they are coupled with the narrow track width. I can certainly see how the narrower tire could cause issues as you mentioned. I bet the AHC does great with full fat D and E rated tires. My GX470 was a heavy girl at around 5600lbs with mods. It topped out at 6100 when loaded up with us and gear in/on it. And the kendas handled that just fine.

Like you said, lots of variables at play to where the same tires probably dont make sense on the LX. Ive been a fan of 'skinnies' for a long long time. However, Ive not had a full size rig like the 200 series, or older larger format land cruisers. Ive had several Monteros, and the two GXs all of which I clarify as more on the smallish to midsize. My 2 door 87 Montero was a blast and loved tall/skinnies. Ive always shied away from full fat tires for many of my own reasons. But im learning that the 200 series actually pairs well with them. Just a process of retraining my mindset for this larger platform.

Thanks again for the many replies and information!

 

[grinchy]

I run my skinny Kendas at 42. I had them at 36-38 for a little while, but pressure diff cold to hot was a tad high, so I inflated them until the hot and cold pressure diff were around 10%. I suspect 35 was pretty low psi and likely contributed to your handling and wear issue. My truck may weigh a bit more than yours though.

Glad the new tires are working out.

 

[TeCKis300]

Thanks for the input. Yeah, id say expectations based on past experience jad a lot to do with it for sure. That, amd inexperience with the larger full size 200 series. I dont know if you have any first hand experience with these kendas or not. They are an RT D load rated tire. They have very stiff sidewalls. Like, I can air them down to 10 psi and barely see any bulge when fully loaded with gear. So, as far as the tire rolling over Id have to disagree with that assessment. They are a pretty stiff tire. If they didnt advertise it as a D Id have thought they were E rated tires theyre so stiff. I still feel like AHC just wasnt able to perform as intended with how stiff they are coupled with the narrow track width. I can certainly see how the narrower tire could cause issues as you mentioned. I bet the AHC does great with full fat D and E rated tires. My GX470 was a heavy girl at around 5600lbs with mods. It topped out at 6100 when loaded up with us and gear in/on it. And the kendas handled that just fine.

Like you said, lots of variables at play to where the same tires probably dont make sense on the LX. Ive been a fan of 'skinnies' for a long long time. However, Ive not had a full size rig like the 200 series, or older larger format land cruisers. Ive had several Monteros, and the two GXs all of which I clarify as more on the smallish to midsize. My 2 door 87 Montero was a blast and loved tall/skinnies. Ive always shied away from full fat tires for many of my own reasons. But im learning that the 200 series actually pairs well with them. Just a process of retraining my mindset for this larger platform.

Thanks again for the many replies and information!

I haven't run that tire. I do run high profile 3-ply R/Ts. Tire sidewall rollover is just a term for sidewall flex, which regardless of perceived sidewall stiffness, tires will do to differing degrees. Especially narrow and tall-profile tires. @grinchy is right that 35 PSI may not have been enough roll stiffness even if it meets load ratings.

Traction control kicking is telling as it's sensing too much slip and/or compliance.

I usually run my tall R/Ts at 37 PSI even as I need less than 35 PSI for load rating. On a windy secondary road mountain roads, I can get them to give up, following by the beep beep of traction control. Which really isn't hard given the weight, high center of gravity, and practically zero camber. With 42 PSI, the tires have much more roll resistance allowing the carrying of more speed in a corner before rolling over. Aggressive offsets play into this too as the front tires don't work exactly in tandem forcing some slip angle onto each other.

The LX570 starts at 6100ish lbs stock. With some mods, 6500lbs empty. On a trip closer to 7500-8000lbs.

On the following ruts - not likely with a 285 section tire. It's probably just the tire scrubbing in. Or could use a hint more caster.

All a long way to say the LX isn't the same as your older vehicles. It has much more power combined with prodigious weight. Where it can benefit from larger more stable footprints.

 

[cubaniche]

I haven't run that tire. I do run high profile 3-ply R/Ts. Tire sidewall rollover is just a term for sidewall flex, which regardless of perceived sidewall stiffness, tires will do to differing degrees. Especially narrow and tall-profile tires. @grinchy is right that 35 PSI may not have been enough roll stiffness even if it meets load ratings.

Traction control kicking is telling as it's sensing too much slip and/or compliance.

I usually run my tall R/Ts at 37 PSI even as I need less than 35 PSI for load rating. On a windy secondary road mountain roads, I can get them to give up, following by the beep beep of traction control. Which really isn't hard given the weight, high center of gravity, and practically zero camber. With 42 PSI, the tires have much more roll resistance allowing the carrying of more speed in a corner before rolling over. Aggressive offsets play into this too as the front tires don't work exactly in tandem forcing some slip angle onto each other.

The LX570 starts at 6100ish lbs stock. With some mods, 6500lbs empty. On a trip closer to 7500-8000lbs.

On the following ruts - not likely with a 285 section tire. It's probably just the tire scrubbing in. Or could use a hint more caster.

All a long way to say the LX isn't the same as your older vehicles. It has much more power combined with prodigious weight. Where it can benefit from larger more stable footprints.

Oh ok gotcha. That makes sense. Yeah I need to go get it realigned just for peace of mind. Steering is dead straight. Just to clarify, on the pressures, 35 was cold. As soon as you start driving it would climb up to 38-40 easily. South texas heat. Big swings in tire pressures. I was surprised yesterday by how much these toyos jumped up in pressures on a 1 1/2 hour drive to Houston. 37 psi cold and all of them were 41-42 by the time I got to where I was going and parked.

 

[grinchy]

Around 10% psi cold to hot is a fine range. 37 to 41, for example
37 to 45 - that’s a lot more than 10% and more air is needed to keep the tire cool.
These are just theoretical scenarios.

I like to use as a hot temp the temp after 45 min at freeway speed.

The 10% came from an article I read a while ago taking about inflation pressures. It isn’t informed at all by load, bias, ply, compound, D E F etc. Just a rule of thumb. As such it works great until it doesn’t.

 

[kong24680]

Thanks for the input. Yeah, id say expectations based on past experience jad a lot to do with it for sure. That, amd inexperience with the larger full size 200 series. I dont know if you have any first hand experience with these kendas or not. They are an RT D load rated tire. They have very stiff sidewalls. Like, I can air them down to 10 psi and barely see any bulge when fully loaded with gear. So, as far as the tire rolling over Id have to disagree with that assessment. They are a pretty stiff tire. If they didnt advertise it as a D Id have thought they were E rated tires theyre so stiff. I still feel like AHC just wasnt able to perform as intended with how stiff they are coupled with the narrow track width. I can certainly see how the narrower tire could cause issues as you mentioned. I bet the AHC does great with full fat D and E rated tires. My GX470 was a heavy girl at around 5600lbs with mods. It topped out at 6100 when loaded up with us and gear in/on it. And the kendas handled that just fine.

Like you said, lots of variables at play to where the same tires probably dont make sense on the LX. Ive been a fan of 'skinnies' for a long long time. However, Ive not had a full size rig like the 200 series, or older larger format land cruisers. Ive had several Monteros, and the two GXs all of which I clarify as more on the smallish to midsize. My 2 door 87 Montero was a blast and loved tall/skinnies. Ive always shied away from full fat tires for many of my own reasons. But im learning that the 200 series actually pairs well with them. Just a process of retraining my mindset for this larger platform.

Thanks again for the many replies and information!

I’m running the same Kenda Klever R/T 35x10.5R17s on my ‘21 LX570 and having pretty much all the same issues you were. Glad to hear going wider sorted it out for you.

I’m planning to run a similar setup with max AHC lift, front top hat spacer, rear shock bracket, rear spring spacers, and adjustable panhard bracket, plus a 1.5” body lift, OME UCAs, and AT4Ws in 37x12.5R17. Really hoping the new tires take care of the vibrations and crap handling…

 

[cubaniche]

I’m running the same Kenda Klever R/T 35x10.5R17s on my ‘21 LX570 and having pretty much all the same issues you were. Glad to hear going wider sorted it out for you.

I’m planning to run a similar setup with max AHC lift, front top hat spacer, rear shock bracket, rear spring spacers, and adjustable panhard bracket, plus a 1.5” body lift, OME UCAs, and AT4Ws in 37x12.5R17. Really hoping the new tires take care of the vibrations and crap handling…

Sucks, but Im glad to hear someone else corroborate what I I've been experiencing. Yeah going wider definitely reolved all issues. Ive got all the same mods you described except UCA and body lift. I might consider jumping back up to 35s but at a 12.50. Im happy with where its at now though. Our off road trips/camping have dwindled down to 2 or 3 times a year so, I don't feel the need for 35s anymore. You might want to consider also adding the e&e offroad rear shock spacers too.

 

[jesus888]

Ive been running Kenda Klever RTs in theb35x10.50r17 size on multiple rigs (gx470/460) without issues. Awesome tire. When I got my 14 LX 2 years ago, I was exited to install these too. So I did, on icon vector 5 wheels which have +25 offset. However, they never been as trouble-free as they were on the two other rigs. I get vibration at higher speeds around 70, and slightly uneven tire wear. Ive had them road forced several times and each time they've needed minimal balancing with low force numbers, which is supposed to be a good sign. Suspension components that matter have all been replaced with oem parts. Ive had it aligned twice, with the second time confirming the first realignment after the tires were installed, was good and no real changes were needed. I suspect that the variable geometry changes that happen at speed as the vehicle rates and lowers itself is impacting wear on these tires. Also, being that they are almost a full inch narrower than stock, maybe thats also affecting ride quality/handling. Im experiencing symptoms that others with wider tires aren't. The combined weight of these kendas and the icons are roughly 98lbs at each corner, which is about 21-24lbs more per corner vs stock.

My new goal is to try and achieve a bigger tires vs stock but maintain close to stock width. Also dropping down to an AT from the RT. Looking at going with the Toyo Open Country AT3s in 285/75r17 LT/C. These should be just shy of an inch shorter than the Kendas, which are actually 34.7 in tall uninstalled, and be wider by almost a full inch bringing me back in line with the stock 11.3 wide 285/55r20s. Im hoping the small drop in height and wider footprint will alleviate some of the symptoms. One thing I've always experienced after moving to the narrower kendas is traction control activating when slowing down to turn onto a street (during the actual cornering, it will activate for a split second). It also does this off road when a tire drops into a dip at slow speeds (under 8 mph). The kendas are a D load range whereas the Toyos are a C. The LX suspension settings are also less evident on the Kendas vs the stock wheel/tire combo.

Im disappointed that my experience with these doesnt match up with my previous experience on the other rigs. My conclusion is that what is making the difference here is the LX is much heavier and has hydraulic suspension vs the lighter 04 GX and newer 460 I had these tires on. Both had upgraded suspensions (470 was on Dobinsons MRR with heavy springs in the rear and 460 was on Dobinsons IMS with medium springs all around). As mentioned in the beginning of the post, the LX has new lca/uca's, front oem 10mm strut spacer, rear 20mm spring spacers, ee offroad shock height relocation spacer, drkdss panhard correction, and max sensor lift all around. All of that should technically have the AHC happy and close to stock pressures.

Sooo, I just had the same Kenda Klever RTs 35x10.50r17 mounted on my 200 with Bilstein 6112/5160 suspension, front on 5th perch and 2" Dobinson springs out back...

I'm having the exact same type of subtle vibrations up front that you described, some people may not notice, but I definitely do every time I get passed 60mph... and I'm about to basically go through the same things that you did... starting with rebalancing the tires. My buddy, where the install etc was done, said he thinks that it's the tires because of how they were bouncing around on the balancer... fingers crossed I can get away with it just being that because otherwise, I absolutely love the setup...