LX570 Slammed on 33's (6 Viewers)

[mcgaskins]

Tire fitment question for you @TeCKis300 and others who might know.

What are your thoughts of the Nitto Ridge Grappler in a 275/65/20 on the LX570 with stock 20's like yours? Seeing them on @PaulLx470 truck really swayed my decision but have decided I'd like a little more height out of the tires - a little taller but a bit narrower than the 295s Paul used..
Do you think there will be any rubbing problems at the N AHC height setting? I don't mind trimming some plastic if needed.
Also considering the Falkens, any feedback on those?


tire size --width --diameter-- weight
Nitto Ridge Grappler
LT275/65R20 E --10.98 -- 34.09 --60.85lbs
LT295/55R20 E --12.17-- 32.76 -- 62.29lbs

Falken Wildpeak A/T3W
LT275/65R20 E --10.6 -- 34.10 -- 66.1lbs

Thanks for the help guys!

Bumping this one. Looking at this tire and thinking about 275/65/20. I thinking 275/60/20 would be perfect, but it only comes in the standard load rating. I want the E rated version which means you have to go up to next larger or next smaller size, and I definitely want a 33" or taller tire. Has anyone put a 275/65/20 Falken AT3 on an LX yet?

 

[cc93cruiser]

275/65r20 pics anyone?

 

[SharpeCat]

Sorry to bring up an old thread.

I am trying to decide where to go from the stock tire setup, when it comes time to replace my current tires. If you can fit these with relatively no problems and you have not used your 1.25 inch in AHC sensor lift, then how big could i go with the 1.25 AHC lift done? I think i do want to keep the stock 20s so that i do not have to purchase another set of rims. What tire options should i consider at the lifted height?

I have looked at the spreadsheet but most of those are either LCs or LXs without AHC lift. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, since tires are like a whole new language to me. I have an 08 LX.

 

[chittick]

Sorry to bring up an old thread.

I am trying to decide where to go from the stock tire setup, when it comes time to replace my current tires. If you can fit these with relatively no problems and you have not used your 1.25 inch in AHC sensor lift, then how big could i go with the 1.25 AHC lift done? I think i do want to keep the stock 20s so that i do not have to purchase another set of rims. What tire options should i consider at the lifted height?

I have looked at the spreadsheet but most of those are either LCs or LXs without AHC lift. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, since tires are like a whole new language to me. I have an 08 LX.

I put 275/60/r20s on my '15 LX, which has a sensor lift in the front only. I get mild rubbing in some situations but not enough to be a bother. The tires served me well in my first outing in the Eastern Sierra this summer.

 

[HGB]

Here I am in Low

 

[SharpeCat]

View attachment 2160675
Here I am in Low

Love the black on black, details please! What size is that? Rims/offset? Rubbing/Trimming?? AHC sensor lift? Would love some L/N/H pictures as well whenever convenient!

I put 275/60/r20s on my '15 LX, which has a sensor lift in the front only. I get mild rubbing in some situations but not enough to be a bother. The tires served me well in my first outing in the Eastern Sierra this summer.


View attachment 2160660

This is where i am confused. I assume that is in neutral height and it doesn't look like you can go bigger without rubbing (judging by space left in wheel well). However, the OP is doing 33s without much issues and without AHC lift, but here it looks like even with the AHC lift in the front, that it just clears the 33s with no room left to go bigger. I was expecting your front end to sit higher than OP's after AHC lift, but it looks almost identical when i look at them side by side.

I am trying to figure out a decimal point somewhere in between 33s and 34s, where i could get away with no rub and nothing major like a Body Mount Chop.

 

[grinchy]

Love the black on black, details please! What size is that? Rims/offset? Rubbing/Trimming?? AHC sensor lift? Would love some L/N/H pictures as well whenever convenient!




This is where i am confused. I assume that is in neutral height and it doesn't look like you can go bigger without rubbing (judging by space left in wheel well). However, the OP is doing 33s without much issues and without AHC lift, but here it looks like even with the AHC lift in the front, that it just clears the 33s with no room left to go bigger. I was expecting your front end to sit higher than OP's after AHC lift, but it looks almost identical when i look at them side by side.

I am trying to figure out a decimal point somewhere in between 33s and 34s, where i could get away with no rub and nothing major like a Body Mount Chop.

View attachment 2160706

I run true 35 with no body mount chop and no rub. They fit with no ahc lift N and L, but I did/do rub the liner with moderate wheel turn in L. I have since adjusted with the sensors on three corners to remove high flex rubbing on the liner in N. This was just to level my rig. Details in my build thread.

Summary you can run a tall tire or a wide tire, but not both easily. And keep a moderate (25 to 40) offset.

 

[SharpeCat]

I run true 35 with no body mount chop and no rub. They fit with no ahc lift N and L, but I did/do rub the liner with moderate wheel turn in L. I have since adjusted with the sensors on three corners to remove high flex rubbing on the liner in N. This was just to level my rig. Details in my build thread.

Summary you can run a tall tire or a wide tire, but not both easily. And keep a moderate (25 to 40) offset.

Thanks, I will definitely be visiting the thread! From what i have read, 35s require regearing but not 34s and lower? I am trying to avoid having to regear the diffs while going as big as possible with no rub.

 

[grinchy]

Thanks, I will definitely be visiting the thread! From what i have read, 35s require regearing but not 34s and lower? I am trying to avoid having to regear the diffs while going as big as possible with no rub.

Yeah I did gears. They are expensive. But unlike lots of mods you use them every second. They are also awesome for any tire size.

 

[TeCKis300]

Sorry to bring up an old thread.

I am trying to decide where to go from the stock tire setup, when it comes time to replace my current tires. If you can fit these with relatively no problems and you have not used your 1.25 inch in AHC sensor lift, then how big could i go with the 1.25 AHC lift done? I think i do want to keep the stock 20s so that i do not have to purchase another set of rims. What tire options should i consider at the lifted height?

I have looked at the spreadsheet but most of those are either LCs or LXs without AHC lift. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, since tires are like a whole new language to me. I have an 08 LX.

One thing to know is that unlike solid front axles of yore, lifting an IFS suspension doesn't really change clearance for tires. The suspension will still travel within its same stroke, and the tire will still need to clear throughout that stroke for offroad. Lifting just changes the neutral point within that stroke that it rests at.

Lift is a separate decision from tire size. I personally choose not to lift the suspension, as we have AHC to lift on demand. As a previous road racer, I value dynamic handling qualities, both on and off-road. Lifting suspensions makes for odd geometries that impacts handling. I prefer to lift by tire diameter rather than suspension lift.

That said, the LX can support mild to wild tire sizes. Even more aggressive of sizes than what the LC will readily take as we don't have to deal with KDSS clearance issues.

Going up one aspect ratio to a 285/55r20 (32.4") tire is the easiest upsized option, with no real mods necessary.

One more step up in aggressiveness is a 285/60r20 (33.5"). Still a relatively easy fit with some minor trimming. Perhaps needs a 1" spacer. Some of the same trimming and adjustments necessary for my 305/55r20 (33.2") tire size.

I really enjoy my 305/55r20 (33.2") tire. As I said, I value on road handling and braking so I want width too. It's also useful for flotation in really soft stuff such as sand/snow, especially for our heavier rigs. I think people also forget that having sidewall bulge is good to protect the wheel face especially offroad. These are reasons that I'd strongly suggest one doesn't downsize width from the stock 285, to a 275 for example. A tire upgrade should perform better, in all areas, rather than trade strengths IMO.

I've toyed with the idea to get other upgrades like sliders. Currently, I'm thinking I'd rather spend the money and effort into larger tires still to make for real lift that also increases clearance under the rear axle. Also, why rub anything on the body, when I can just lift things higher. Perhaps I might see 35x12.5s in my future with some 4.3 gears.

If I don't feel a hankering to get a Cybertruck first...

 

[SharpeCat]

Yeah I did gears. They are expensive. But unlike lots of mods you use them every second. They are also awesome for any tire size.

I do like them, and if money was not a factor i would love to do the lockers and re-gearing at the same time. It would give me a good learning experience for sure. Right now i am in the process of trying to figure out if this thing even needs a locker, and if it does i will consider changing the gears. I have a limited budget to work with for 2020 and i am trying to prioritize for overlanding, so rock crawling would be less of a priority.

I am thinking that the crawl mode makes less of a need for lockers, and if i can get by without lockers, then the regearing becomes less appealing. Then I would just be taking the diff apart just to accommodate for an extra inch in tires (34s vs 35s), rather than taking it apart to regear and lock it at the same time. I really need to knock out two birds with one stone here if possible, at least for the rear. This means that i will add least 1 locker to the cost of regearing if i go that route.

How much exactly are we talking to regear? That is not something i have looked much into. For lockers it seems $1k per locker is the standard, although i am the type to wait all year if i have to for a good sale or a deal from a member. I remember seeing someone post 4 ARB air lockers for only $500 each, so if that happens again it will make my decision much easier.

 

[TeCKis300]

Depending on the type of terrain you like to drive in, and based on your description, I'd put lockers in the nice to have category.

As it were, with some good larger diameter AT tires aired down, the 200-series with its excellent articulation and ATRAC is just about unstoppable. CRAWL is an additional layer of capability. If one must have everything, sure lockers, but it's hardly a necessity IMO.

I would re-gear for larger tires, but wouldn't bother adding lockers at the same time. That's just me though.

 

[SharpeCat]

One thing to know is that unlike solid front axles of yore, lifting an IFS suspension doesn't really change clearance for tires. The suspension will still travel within its same stroke, and the tire will still need to clear throughout that stroke for offroad. Lifting just changes the neutral point within that stroke that it rests at.

Lift is a separate decision from tire size. I personally choose not to lift the suspension, as we have AHC to lift on demand. As a previous road racer, I value dynamic handling qualities, both on and off-road. Lifting suspensions makes for odd geometries that impacts handling. I prefer to lift by tire diameter rather than suspension lift.

That said, the LX can support mild to wild tire sizes. Even more aggressive of sizes than what the LC will readily take as we don't have to deal with KDSS clearance issues.

Going up one aspect ratio to a 285/55r20 (32.4") tire is the easiest upsized option, with no real mods necessary.

One more step up in aggressiveness is a 285/60r20 (33.5"). Still a relatively easy fit with some minor trimming. Perhaps needs a 1" spacer. Some of the same trimming and adjustments necessary for my 305/55r20 (33.2") tire size.

I really enjoy my 305/55r20 (33.2") tire. As I said, I value on road handling and braking so I want width too. It's also useful for flotation in really soft stuff such as sand/snow, especially for our heavier rigs. I think people also forget that having sidewall bulge is good to protect the wheel face especially offroad. These are reasons that I'd strongly suggest one doesn't downsize width from the stock 285, to a 275 for example. A tire upgrade should perform better, in all areas, rather than trade strengths IMO.

I've toyed with the idea to get other upgrades like sliders. Currently, I'm thinking I'd rather spend the money and effort into larger tires still to make for real lift that also increases clearance under the rear axle. Also, why rub anything on the body, when I can just lift things higher. Perhaps I might see 35x12.5s in my future with some 4.3 gears.

If I don't feel a hankering to get a Cybertruck first...

Thank you for the very insightful post.

I was thinking that since the 1.25 lift is within the factory range that they allow you to adjust it, that the end-result geometry will still be very good. I could definitely be wrong though (am relatively new to this), but unless the difference in handling is a good amount, then the trade off for extra clearance for off roading is better for me. Another thing to consider is that i am in no rush to get anywhere, i just want to be able to get there and back. For that reason i think that i would rather have clearance over maintaining geometry good enough for racing on the pavement. I drive her like a grandma most of the time, really, because i want her to last. She handles so well on the pavement that i feel like my only concern now is to focus on the off road aspect, and she handles so well on pavement that i feel like i can sacrifice a little bit of that if i need to.

I know you said it doesn't add clearance for tires, but what about off road clearance? I know it does not lift the axles but i imagine it would help everything else clear obstacles underneath the vehicle?

Also, it is such an easy adjustment that i have been considering doing it more than once, as in drop it 1.25 from stock (min) so she sits even lower for city driving/easy access (i like how it looks sitting low), and then raising her to 1.25 above stock (max) for the weeks when i will be going camping/off road. I have even considered keeping 2 sets of rims and tires so that she sits super low with street tires in the weeks when i am on pavement and super high with off road tires when i am in overland mode. I'll probably end up going with 1 set though and dual purpose tires like all terrains/open countrys.

Let's say i go without the regear, if you had to do it again, would you still go with the 305/55s, or the 285/60? Any other considerations if you were to do it over without regearing? From what i understand you prefer to keep the extra width over going up to 34s and skinnier, correct? And the reason for that is to improve in all areas including braking and ability to stay afloat on soft surfaces?

 

[grinchy]

Nothing wrong with a 34”. they are huge. Totally decent goal.

I did gears as a drive ability upgrade, and early in the process. I think people add weight and lose aero, adid rotating mass and lose aeeo, etc. after a couple years you’re all built and didnt even realize that each little modest upgrade stole a tiny bit of grunt, and now you’re looking for performance and don’t remember what was lost. in my mind better to enjoy every second behind the wheel, and that meant having the right torque, power band etc.
i am also focused on light weight but wanted as much natural clearance as possible, particularly when aired down. Tires elongate much more than widen at low pressures, so skinny is ”in”. Thought I’ll also say this is a complete matter of preference.

 

[SharpeCat]

Nothing wrong with a 34”. they are huge. Totally decent goal.

I did gears as a drive ability upgrade, and early in the process. I think people add weight and lose aero, adid rotating mass and lose aeeo, etc. after a couple years you’re all built and didnt even realize that each little modest upgrade stole a tiny bit of grunt, and now you’re looking for performance and don’t remember what was lost. in my mind better to enjoy every second behind the wheel, and that meant having the right torque, power band etc.
i am also focused on light weight but wanted as much natural clearance as possible, particularly when aired down. Tires elongate much more than widen at low pressures, so skinny is ”in”. Thought I’ll also say this is a complete matter of preference.

Solid reasoning/logic. I could definitely relate to that because that line of reasoning is why i went for the LC/LX to begin with, as well as reason behind aiming for top quality mods. I'd much rather have 1 quality product that lasts twice as long for twice the price, than to pay for 2 lesser products because it is cheaper each individual time/cheaper for now. I'd much rather have 1 LC than 2 4runners. That way, i get the better quality ride for the same long-term cost, even if i end up paying more at first. I don't want to push it off if i do want it in the long run, because as you say i will be missing out on a better ride during that time.

Sounds to me like i should lay my entire build down first before doing anything, and i think that's what i'll do. That will help me to determine whether or not i can fit gearing into my budget, and it sounds like i will want to (sooner than later).

How much time and money did you guys spend on re-gearing, and how do you determine what ratio?

 

[grinchy]

I live closeish to the Nitro west coast shop. It was a bit less than $4k with taxes, install, rear elocker, and 4.88s. I also did rear wheel bearings and front axles so my total bill was a bit higher. I have a very high miles truck which I paid little for, so I'm replacing things as I can.

The 4.3 to 4.88 choice is oft debated . . . having 4.88s and driving it for 6000 miles I see no downside, but for certain applications, particularly if stock aero and weight are kept, 4.3 could be a way to go.

Having a build plan is good!

 

[SharpeCat]

I live closeish to the Nitro west coast shop. It was a bit less than $4k with taxes, install, rear elocker, and 4.88s. I also did rear wheel bearings and front axles so my total bill was a bit higher. I have a very high miles truck which I paid little for, so I'm replacing things as I can.

The 4.3 to 4.88 choice is oft debated . . . having 4.88s and driving it for 6000 miles I see no downside, but for certain applications, particularly if stock aero and weight are kept, 4.3 could be a way to go.

Having a build plan is good!

Yeah i did catch that from reading some of your thread. I am actually in the same boat, i paid 18k for one with high miles (180k) always dealer serviced much like yours, although i feel that i got lucky with the interior. The PO also gave me a 2 week return period (he let me write the BOS) and tomorrow marks the 2 weeks. I have decided to keep it.

I am guessing about half of that is labor cost? This will be one of the more difficult jobs i will try on my own, but labor costs come at the expense of more parts/mods, so i am very hesitant to pay someone else to do something that i want to learn to do myself. I also have you guys to answer any questions i have in the process, so i have no doubt that this is a viable option.

From what i understand, the higher the gear ratio, the more you accommodate for heavier loads and bigger tires. If that is the case then i want to go big for sure, because i will be adding a lot of weight. After the build i want to be able to leave with my dog on a month-long camping trip if i want, but also be able to use her to travel for work while hauling a heavy trailer. My camera equipment and things i need for mobile work won't be light either, and that's in addition to the overland needs. Will the 4.88s be enough?

The more i think about it, the more it seems unavoidable that the re-gearing will have to be done, as i will need her to pull a lot of weight over very long distances. Time to read up on DIY locker and gearing threads.

Quick question, is there anything i should prioritize over these and tires? I am due for brake pads soon, will the TRD pads be enough for long-term, or do i need to look into aftermarket rotors/pads for this type of setup?

 

[grinchy]

Yeah i did catch that from reading some of your thread. I am actually in the same boat, i paid 18k for one with high miles (180k) always dealer serviced much like yours, although i feel that i got lucky with the interior. The PO also gave me a 2 week return period (he let me write the BOS) and tomorrow marks the 2 weeks. I have decided to keep it.

I am guessing about half of that is labor cost? This will be one of the more difficult jobs i will try on my own, but labor costs come at the expense of more parts/mods, so i am very hesitant to pay someone else to do something that i want to learn to do myself. I also have you guys to answer any questions i have in the process, so i have no doubt that this is a viable option.

From what i understand, the higher the gear ratio, the more you accommodate for heavier loads and bigger tires. If that is the case then i want to go big for sure, because i will be adding a lot of weight. After the build i want to be able to leave with my dog on a month-long camping trip if i want, but also be able to use her to travel for work while hauling a heavy trailer. My camera equipment and things i need for mobile work won't be light either, and that's in addition to the overland needs. Will the 4.88s be enough?

The more i think about it, the more it seems unavoidable that the re-gearing will have to be done, as i will need her to pull a lot of weight over very long distances. Time to read up on DIY locker and gearing threads.

Quick question, is there anything i should prioritize over these and tires? I am due for brake pads soon, will the TRD pads be enough for long-term, or do i need to look into aftermarket rotors/pads for this type of setup?

12 hours labor. Others have seen more or less, other locales have different shop rates. If you want to compare, contact Zuk for the ship and rebuild service. For that you pull the diffs and Zuk does the internals via shipped service. Kind of in between in cost. I needed rear bearings which require even more special tools so a good shop made lots of sense.

For heavy I'd suggest 4.88. Right now there isn't an easily adapted 5.29.

Toyota Gear Install Eaton

ZUK shares many close-up good pics of Toyota gear installs

gearinstalls.com

 

[TeCKis300]

Thank you for the very insightful post.

I was thinking that since the 1.25 lift is within the factory range that they allow you to adjust it, that the end-result geometry will still be very good. I could definitely be wrong though (am relatively new to this), but unless the difference in handling is a good amount, then the trade off for extra clearance for off roading is better for me. Another thing to consider is that i am in no rush to get anywhere, i just want to be able to get there and back. For that reason i think that i would rather have clearance over maintaining geometry good enough for racing on the pavement. I drive her like a grandma most of the time, really, because i want her to last. She handles so well on the pavement that i feel like my only concern now is to focus on the off road aspect, and she handles so well on pavement that i feel like i can sacrifice a little bit of that if i need to.

I know you said it doesn't add clearance for tires, but what about off road clearance? I know it does not lift the axles but i imagine it would help everything else clear obstacles underneath the vehicle?

Also, it is such an easy adjustment that i have been considering doing it more than once, as in drop it 1.25 from stock (min) so she sits even lower for city driving/easy access (i like how it looks sitting low), and then raising her to 1.25 above stock (max) for the weeks when i will be going camping/off road. I have even considered keeping 2 sets of rims and tires so that she sits super low with street tires in the weeks when i am on pavement and super high with off road tires when i am in overland mode. I'll probably end up going with 1 set though and dual purpose tires like all terrains/open countrys.

Let's say i go without the regear, if you had to do it again, would you still go with the 305/55s, or the 285/60? Any other considerations if you were to do it over without regearing? From what i understand you prefer to keep the extra width over going up to 34s and skinnier, correct? And the reason for that is to improve in all areas including braking and ability to stay afloat on soft surfaces?

Yes, 1.25" is rather mild and you'll be fine lifting that much. The full adjustment is reportedly more like 1.75". It's a slippery slope of more in trade with handling. More static lift puts the front control arms at a steeper angle, narrowing the track width, and causing more toe steer upon cycling the suspension. The rear axle panhard bar also is at a steeper angle, displacing the rear axle off to one side. Hitting a bump will cause the rear end to oscillate left/right more.

It will give you more overall lift even in AHC high positions as it adds to each height mode. Extra high is 80mm lift in the rear. Adding to a base 1.75" lift (~45mm), makes that an incredible 125mm (5"!). Not too shabby and something LC's can't touch. So if that's your focus, that's a good thing. Keep in mind some level of droop travel in the higher positions should be considered though. Generally when I offroad in anything other than smooth fireroads, I'm generally in 4-lo which already gives some added lift.

I believe you said you're building a newer 2020 LX? Those come with 8-speeds with a great low first gear, and awesome spread. You can practically run any size tire you like without bothering to re-gear, as first gear is practically the same as the old 6-speed with 4.88 regear. If you do go all the way to a 35", then you'll probably want to routinely drive in S7, to lock out 8th gear.

Definitive 200-series Gearing Reference

EDIT: Expanding tables for 8-speed and 40s So I had a little time this morning to put together a chart combining transmission gearing of 6-speed vs 8-speed, diff ratios, and tire sizing into an overall gearing reference. Hoping this will be useful for those trying to understand how their...

forum.ih8mud.com

As a advocate of well rounded rigs, I'll reiterate it's easy to compromise the rigs balance with mods such that it loses quite a bit of handling and on-road performance, such that on road handling safety could be compromised. Not trying to be alarmist, but that's the truth with lots of overly built and biased for off-road rigs. When a balanced rig could do 99% of the same stuff, without as many compromises.

To that end, I'd highly recommend 285/60r20 (33.5") tires or even a 295/60r20 (not as common a size) with 1" spacers to increase track width and maintain lateral stability. Both woudl be considered a "34" by traditional measures, which will almost be an unstoppable tire on most any trail. And fit in the spare position. With a 1.25" AHC lift, you'll be sitting pretty.

 

[grinchy]

good points @TeCKis300 I didn't check the model year. A lot of 2016+ rigs are only doing gears when heavy . . .