LX570 New Alignment Problem Please Help (1 Viewer)

[milellie111]

2013 LX570 with 105,000 miles. Just got new Michelin Defender LTX tires balanced (regular and not road force) and installed by my Indy shop and alignment done at Lexus dealer. Car drives so much better with new tires and alignment and finally tracks straight. However afterward, I’m noticing slight looseness/disconnected, twitch feeling in the steering wheel over bumps. It’s not bad and not on all bumps, but it’s there. Is this normal and does your LX,LC behave the same way? I upped then lowered tire pressure but did not fix. I’m currently running 35psi.
Could the alignment be the issue, wheel balance, brand new tires? I’ll post a pic of the alignment specs. Thanks

 

[gaijin]

What size tires are you running?

 

[bloc]

Bring it back and explain the issue, have them recheck torque on everything.

 

[milellie111]

What size tires are you running?

Im running the stock 285/50/R20.

 

[FerrisBueller]

I've experience the exact same sensation on one of my previous vehicles that had a damaged tie rod. Maybe take a look to make sure there's no damage.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

The truck's toe is dead straight, no wonder it's sensitive.

Ask for the front end to be "toe'd in around 1/32nd of an inch"

What is happening is that every little bump, corrugation, or irregularity in the road will jounce the suspension and redirect the truck to a new direction. That means you always have this... needing to make a correction driving feel. When you toe the front tires inward ever so slightly, the two front tires fight each other. It makes it to where bumps and jounces don't really affect the direction of the truck (at least as much).

I can tell from that alignment that whoever did it, is new to alignments/never was taught the proper way. They really worked to try and make everything dead in the middle, which won't give a very good alignment, just looks good on paper. It happens, but if you want less tire wear and a better driving experience, just have them toe the front end in.

 

[milellie111]

The truck's toe is dead straight, no wonder it's sensitive.

Ask for the front end to be "toe'd in around 1/32nd of an inch"

What is happening is that every little bump, corrugation, or irregularity in the road will jounce the suspension and redirect the truck to a new direction. That means you always have this... needing to make a correction driving feel. When you toe the front tires inward ever so slightly, the two front tires fight each other. It makes it to where bumps and jounces don't really affect the direction of the truck (at least as much).

I can tell from that alignment that whoever did it, is new to alignments/never was thought the proper way. They really worked to try and make everything dead in the middle, which won't give a very good alignment, just looks good on paper. It happens, but if you want less tire wear and a better driving experience, just have them toe the front end in.

Thank you for your input. I will take the car back to the dealership and get them to recheck the alignment with your suggestions.

 

[milellie111]

The truck's toe is dead straight, no wonder it's sensitive.

Ask for the front end to be "toe'd in around 1/32nd of an inch"

What is happening is that every little bump, corrugation, or irregularity in the road will jounce the suspension and redirect the truck to a new direction. That means you always have this... needing to make a correction driving feel. When you toe the front tires inward ever so slightly, the two front tires fight each other. It makes it to where bumps and jounces don't really affect the direction of the truck (at least as much).

I can tell from that alignment that whoever did it, is new to alignments/never was taught the proper way. They really worked to try and make everything dead in the middle, which won't give a very good alignment, just looks good on paper. It happens, but if you want less tire wear and a better driving experience, just have them toe the front end in.

So the dealer checked the front end. Everything is torqued down nothing is loose. They also rebalanced the wheels. Did not fix.
I mentioned the alignment and toe issue. One of the head mechanics who has been there 20+ years rode with me and said what I am experiencing is not abnormal. He said GX’s are actually worse especially on comfort mode the steering wheel will shake bad on rough roads. He said even though he didn’t do my alignment, they are trained to set it dead straight since this gives best tire wear and gas mileage. Unfortunately, it is at the expense of some drivability. He said he could toe it in some to alleviate some of the bump steer, however it won’t track dead straight with little steering correction like it does now. I have to pick my poison.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

So the dealer checked the front end. Everything is torqued down nothing is loose. They also rebalanced the wheels. Did not fix.
I mentioned the alignment and toe issue. One of the head mechanics who has been there 20+ years rode with me and said what I am experiencing is not abnormal. He said GX’s are actually worse especially on comfort mode the steering wheel will shake bad on rough roads. He said even though he didn’t do my alignment, they are trained to set it dead straight since this gives best tire wear and gas mileage. Unfortunately, it is at the expense of some drivability. He said he could toe it in some to alleviate some of the bump steer, however it won’t track dead straight with little steering correction like it does now. I have to pick my poison.

I would have to respectfully disagree with the lead mech. Toeing in is exactly what corrects trucks from not tracking dead straight. Sounds more like they want to move onto the next paying customer, and not redo an already paid alignment. Sorry you have to deal with this, it's not a hard fix.

Also, years working on anything does help. But it will never change a person's personality. If that person is just not a particular person, age usually makes their level of detail more... "it will be fine" kind of attitude.

 

[vipergrhd]

Very good points @Taco2Cruiser , this is a very simple problem but a lot of new tech/mechanic never gets it right. I will continue my post tomorrow i have to be up at 4 a.m and drive to work for about an hour.

 

[TeCKis300]

How many miles do you have on your new tires now? Many tires need a few hundred miles to scrub in. Until then, they will feel loose.

Personally, I think the alignment looks good. While classically, many chassis will prefer some degree of toe-in on the front axle, it's not always true. RWD cars (i.e. 4x4 trucks that that are primarily RWD) will want more toe in front because the axle is passive. FWD cars will want some neutral or even a hint toe out. I point this out because it depends on whether the front axle is driven. Full time 4WD cars like ours where the front axle is driven can do fine with neutral toe as the driven axle will create some toe in.

Are the LTX tires P-Metric and not LT load ratings?

 

[hickuptruck]

Your ride's caster is *hit. Typical of dealership techs as they don't touch this spec. That explains all your looseness and vagueness. Go back and ask for more caster, then allow for the tires to break-in. This alignment took the tech like 10 minutes to do because all they touched is the toe. I can bet they will make a ton of excuses why they won't touch the caster, but you're on the low end of the spec.

 

[milellie111]

How many miles do you have on your new tires now? Many tires need a few hundred miles to scrub in. Until then, they will feel loose.

Personally, I think the alignment looks good. While classically, many chassis will prefer some degree of toe-in on the front axle, it's not always true. RWD cars (i.e. 4x4 trucks that that are primarily RWD) will want more toe in front because the axle is passive. FWD cars will want some neutral or even a hint toe out. I point this out because it depends on whether the front axle is driven. Full time 4WD cars like ours where the front axle is driven can do fine with neutral toe as the driven axle will create some toe in.

Are the LTX tires P-Metric and not LT load ratings?

I have less than 500 miles on the tires they were just put on a week ago. The tech also mentioned I should drive around for a couple of weeks for the tires to round out. They are the Michelin Defender LTX M/S

 

[gaijin]

Are the LTX tires P-Metric and not LT load ratings?

They are XL ISO-Metric:

And the RCTIP for these tires on OP's 2013 LX570 is 34psi F/R.

HTH

 

[gaijin]

They are the Michelin Defender LTX M/S

They are XL (Extra Load / Reinforced) ISO-Metric and should be inflated to a Cold pressure of 34psi Front/Rear on your 2013 LX570.

HTH

 

[milellie111]

They are XL ISO-Metric:

View attachment 2371604

And the RCTIP for these tires on OP's 2013 LX570 is 34psi F/R.

HTH

Thank you appreciate it! I now know the tire pressure is not the cause of my issue that’s what I’m running.

 

[gaijin]

I’m currently running 35psi.

They are XL (Extra Load / Reinforced) ISO-Metric and should be inflated to a Cold pressure of 34psi Front/Rear on your 2013 LX570.

Thank you appreciate it! I now know the tire pressure is not the cause of my issue that’s what I’m running.

Horseshoes and hand grenades, I guess

 

[milellie111]

So now I’m a little confused. @Taco2Cruiser tells me the the Toe is off. @hickuptruck tells me it’s the Caster. Yet @TeCKis300 says the alignment looks fine. Yet, the truck has never felt this loose over bumps before the alignment even with worn tires. Dealer says this is the way it should drive if I want it to track straight, not wander and give best tire wear and that the GX’s are looser especially on Comfort mode (lots of customer complaints).

I took it to Lexus because of all of the horror stories with independent shops not being able to properly align the LX. Many have said the dealer is the place to take it if you want the alignment done right the first time. I paid $145, yet I feel as if I could have gotten the same result for cheaper at a shop. And this is one of the top Lexus dealers in the area.

I don’t see how driving on it a couple of weeks to let the new tires settle in will affect anything much over bumps. I can see if they were slightly vibrating while driving on smooth roads and needed to round out.

I feel as if I take it back and tell them to do the alignment again, it will be a waste of my time and I’ll get the same or a worse result (tighter drive but wander and tire wear issue).

 

[milellie111]

Horseshoes and hand grenades, I guess

A few days ago I set pressures to 35 psi at the gas station air machine. A couple of days ago I checked in my garage with my own gauge and they read 34.5 psi.

So you would you say my looseness over bumps after an alignment is due to being .5 psi off from 34 in tire pressure?

 

[CharlieS]

I'd take it to a specialty shop, if you have one nearby, not a dealer. Get the grizzled guy that knows how to do alignments and the trade offs. Not some kid who makes the lights turn green.

The last time I had one of my 911 done with a custom (Roland Kusmaul GT3 specs), it took two days and repeated readjustments. The guy took great pride in his work and wanted it to be perfect. It was several hundred dollars, but it was PERFECT.