You won't have any bass
LX470 Mark Levinson front door speakers: conflicting info on OHMs
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Subwoofer needs to be 16 Ohms? I thought that the entire system is designed for speakers with 8 Ohms impedance, so I chose that sub. What do you recommend?
And the tweeters in the door, by the mirrors, look good. I don't think they need replacement, but I'm open to suggestions. What do you recommend?
I do not want to replace any amps, wiring or even the head unit. Its too much trouble .. I'm fine with my iPhone, maybe an iPad, and some Bluetooth to route sound.
Just replacing all the torn speakers should b enough to get some decent sound back, no?
I assume that’s to replace your mid in the 3 way set for the doors. Look at the back of the oem speaker and validate that it’s 8ohms too. If so then that speaker should be fine as long as the diameter is consistent with the factory. Might have to use tin snips to adjust the mounting metal. For the sub, After looking at the specs a second time I wouldn’t. Usable frequency is 80 on that which 80 and up is no longer ideal sub stage frequencies.
i forgot the depth of the factory enclosure. If you can swing 3.25 depth this is a good choice
Amazon product ASIN B0002KRBH8
if 3.25 doesn’t work this should work well too.
Home
Visaton W170S-8 6.5" Woofer with Treated Paper Cone 8 OhmVisaton's 9025 W170S 6-1/2" woofer features a coated paper cone, durable rubber surround, and a bumped back plate to allow all 4.25 mm of Xmax to be used with an excursion limit of ±10 mm. A very balanced and extended frequency response...
www.parts-express.com
Lol, you have no idea what you are walking into here...I assume that’s to replace your mid in the 3 way set for the doors. Look at the back of the oem speaker and validate that it’s 8ohms too. If so then that speaker should be fine as long as the diameter is consistent with the factory. Might have to use tin snips to adjust the mounting metal. For the sub, After looking at the specs a second time I wouldn’t. Usable frequency is 80 on that which 80 and up is no longer ideal sub stage frequencies.
inforgrt the depth of the factory enclosure. If you can swing 3.25 depth this is a good choice
Amazon product ASIN B0002KRBH8
if 3.25 doesn’t work this should work well too.
Home
Visaton W170S-8 6.5" Woofer with Treated Paper Cone 8 OhmVisaton's 9025 W170S 6-1/2" woofer features a coated paper cone, durable rubber surround, and a bumped back plate to allow all 4.25 mm of Xmax to be used with an excursion limit of ±10 mm. A very balanced and extended frequency response...www.parts-express.com
I absolutely do, the only thing I cannot verify is the Specific to lx’s impedance on the factory drivers which is on the back or I and anyone else could figure it out with multimeter. I have a Landcruiser but know that In general the amps and Buls**** factory crossovers is where any equalizing takes place. That said matching the impedance of the factory speakers will yield decent results For a budget minded solution. Also have to find drivers match the relative lower power that the ml Or jbl amps put out per channel. The 4” mid drivers you listed are 20 watts rms...that’s perfect
curious what leads you to think I don’t know what I’m walking into
I assume that’s to replace your mid in the 3 way set for the doors. Look at the back of the oem speaker and validate that it’s 8ohms too. If so then that speaker should be fine as long as the diameter is consistent with the factory. Might have to use tin snips to adjust the mounting metal. For the sub, After looking at the specs a second time I wouldn’t. Usable frequency is 80 on that which 80 and up is no longer ideal sub stage frequencies.
i forgot the depth of the factory enclosure. If you can swing 3.25 depth this is a good choice
Amazon product ASIN B0002KRBH8
if 3.25 doesn’t work this should work well too.
Home
Visaton W170S-8 6.5" Woofer with Treated Paper Cone 8 OhmVisaton's 9025 W170S 6-1/2" woofer features a coated paper cone, durable rubber surround, and a bumped back plate to allow all 4.25 mm of Xmax to be used with an excursion limit of ±10 mm. A very balanced and extended frequency response...www.parts-express.com
Thanks! Good catch on that usable frequency; I had not noticed. Opening up the Subwoofer area tmrw to use my the last of my refoam kit. Will check out Ohms, cables, etc. and then probably order the entire Visaton set.
Thanks!!
can anyone provide an opinion as to whether I'll need a
so whats the deal? you gonna do it? if not can you make a parts list of what i would need and the links?
@KosPar: Did you ever install this?
ramangain
Clarksonian disciple
A hand-wave solution of impedance matching aftermarket speakers to the stock speakers may work, but it is more complicated.
Take the ML system - specifically the 3-way front door speaker "system". There is only one passive crossover element on any of the speakers, and it is a small capacitor on the tweeter. This means the woofer and midrange speaker run full range. There will also be spectral overlap between the midrange and the tweeter. These areas of spectral overlap cause an impedance dip in those frequency ranges as presented to the amp.
More than likely, the DC impedance of each speaker/driver is set such that the combined spectral impedance of all of the speakers never dips below a certain value, most likely 4 ohms. This means the DC impedance of each driver is almost assuredly greater than 4 ohms, and probably double that to be safe from an engineering standpoint.
The "proper" way to find replacement speakers is to find the safe impedance that the amp can drive, and look at the aggregate spectral impedance response of any speaker set, be it individual drivers with a proper (passive) crossover network, or co-axials (which tend to have much simpler crossover networks). Match up the minimum aggregate spectral impedance of the speaker set to the what the amp can handle, and you'll have optimized your aftermarket speakers to the factory amp.
Does anyone actually do this in practice? Not really. But it is fun to know. It would help if someone could post the "safe" spectral impedance data for each of the common amps in our platforms (JBL, ML, etc).
Sound quality, naturally, is another matter.
So I may have Missed your direct explanation of this but the capacitor is along the Speaker wiring Chain, so the capacitor is designed around the speakers to syergize with the amp load tolerance. That said, match the Factory speaker impedance with replacement speaker of same impedance and The final impedance (speakers+capcitor) to the amp will be the same.
Your logic is overly sound when talking aftermarket amp because an aftermarket amp had gain control to help offset audible gaps between say a 2 ohm load in the front Channels and 4 ohm load in the rear. Factory amp just doesn’t have that ability so impedance matching and speaker attributes are all you can adjust
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ramangain
Clarksonian disciple
I'd suggest that the cap is there to protect the tweeter from blowing out at frequencies below its capacity to safely produce them, and the byproduct is the modified spectral impedance presented to the amp.
To address any sound level imbalance (not tonal imbalance) between front/rear/left/right, thankfully the balance and fader functions can help with this directly at the head unit. The only time I ever adjust the gain on an aftermarket amp is to set the output level of that channel to the proper level to avoid clipping/distortion at the proper high volume setting to avoid tanking the speaker(s). Some folks adjust the rear channel gain at the amp to set the proper rear fill level for appropriate imaging and soundstage depth up front (and I used to do this). Now I've found that head units are so flexible and powerful that everything can be done via the drivers seat (speaker delays, crossover settings, etc.) so that the amp can just be used like a ronco oven (set it and forget it).
Well not that you need the legitimization but the fact that you used the ronco analogy tells me you are legit as they come. I used to go to the Fred hall tackle show with my dad Every year and id watch that damn ronco demo in awe all weekend.
anyways, what you speak is generally bible respective to amps...not using amp gain like a volume like a Bass head noob . However, I’ll give an example that isn’t far from this discussion. i was previously running in my vehicle a 2 ohm component set In my front doors and dedicated midbass drivers in the rear doors. I had my frequencies set so that my front Comp set would
See 80hz all the way up to 20k or wjhetevr and my midbass rear doors at 80-400. The midbass drivers needed more juice to give me the kick drum thump I was looking for but mistakenly I ordered 8 ohm drivers. This amounted to my power out the rear amp channel being appromximately 25-40% of what the amp rated output at 4ohms. It would normally be a matter of a few db difference if my front Comp set was 4 ohm and I wasn’t looking specifically for amplified dedicated mid bass production. That said I had to up the gain On my rear channel beyond my initial Set it and forget it Gain setting.
cool story aside, I’ve never seen a cap placed in a speaker chain both aftermarket or oem take an impedance + or - more than .5 ohms any direction which is still within tolerance of even the dinosauriest of amplifiers. And besides, remove the cap and put in a matched 8 ohm speaker with a high sensitivity, reasonable rms rating, and broad tested Frequency range and I’d put a wager over it To sound better than the ml system all day. Particularly given the 20 year age of the ml drivers.
You and I can defintely talk this theory all day in an aftermarket environment but Every audio forum out there is advocating Driver impedance matching as a primary parameter for oem speaker replacement when keeping all other components equal.
I never did get around to installing those speakers that @Pucker5 recommended.
It started snowing in Vermont, and then snowboarding takes over my world.
And, then what do you know .. those re-foamed speakers sound terrible now, about 6 months in .. I should have bought these speakers instead of that re-foam kit, but I didnt know about their existence.
Buying the new speakers now, as per my basic research and recommendations here. I just want the basic system to work well, sound good enough.
Sharing links again:
4x door speakers: Home - https://www.parts-express.com/Visaton-R10S-4-Full-Range-Speaker-8-Ohm-292-596
1x Subwoofer: Home - https://www.parts-express.com/Visaton-W170S-8-6.5-Woofer-with-Treated-Paper-Cone-8-Ohm-292-568
I will let you all know how it goes.
Kos
That’s exciting man, glad you got to go board that’s way more important. I think you’re going to be quite pleased with the resultI never did get around to installing those speakers that @Pucker5 recommended.
It started snowing in Vermont, and then snowboarding takes over my world.
And, then what do you know .. those re-foamed speakers sound terrible now, about 6 months in .. I should have bought these speakers instead of that re-foam kit, but I didnt know about their existence.
Buying the new speakers now, as per my basic research and recommendations here. I just want the basic system to work well, sound good enough.
Sharing links again:
4x door speakers: Home - https://www.parts-express.com/Visaton-R10S-4-Full-Range-Speaker-8-Ohm-292-596
1x Subwoofer: Home - https://www.parts-express.com/Visaton-W170S-8-6.5-Woofer-with-Treated-Paper-Cone-8-Ohm-292-568
I will let you all know how it goes.
Kos
Hey just a note, I have a pair of 8ohm ssa evil 6.5 mids I just took out of my car. They need an aftermarket amp for proper power but if you pay shipping they’re up for grabs
Ha, since @cdoglesby and @X5TOLX asked, here goes:
TL;DR: DO NOT REFOAM! Buy new Visaton speakers for about the same price! Listen to @Pucker5 !
Full Story:
2002 LX470 here with the Mark Levison system.
- Bought it in Sept 2020; almost no sound coming out of most speakers.
- Found this thread around Oct 2020
- Re-foamed all the speakers using that $60 kit from Simply Speakers. Initially its almost magical as I got all the sound back, and I felt like a genius! Proudly showed it to my wife - who was unimpressed with the 'tinny sound' she claimed.
- About a month in, I realized that the sound is indeed crappy (wife is always right) and I couldn't stand it anymore. LOL
- Winter came; spent every spare minute on the slopes.
- Now, I finally got around to replacing all the speakers with:
2x Front doors: Visaton BG17-8 6.5" Full-Range Speaker with Whizzer Cone 8 Ohm
2x Rear doors: Visaton R10S 4" Full-Range Speaker 8 Ohm
1x Subwoofer: Visaton W170S-8 6.5" Woofer with Treated Paper Cone 8 Ohm
The tweeters in the door by the mirror seem to be fine.
The Visaton speakers all fit into the plastic enclosures fairly easily. Not a perfect fit, but there's enough space to just screw them into the plastic.
Now the sound is so much better! I'd say it now sounds like what a 2002 OEM Mark Levinson system would have probably sounded like new. All for about $100. There is no saving those 20-yr old Lexus speakers at this point. New speakers are clear; can hear every high and low, and all the sound adjustments work.
Some audiophiles will disagree with my assessment, and will recommend new high-tech gear, but that's an entirely different discussion. I didn't want to tear it all up, replace the amp, head unit, re-wire, and all that. I just wanted a clean, original look, with good enough sound to stream music from my iPhone to the radio via a simple $15 Bluetooth car transmitter. Extremely happy with it, and totally regret going that re-foaming route at all.
Hope this helps: DO NOT REFOAM! Buy new Visaton speakers for about the same price!
TL;DR: DO NOT REFOAM! Buy new Visaton speakers for about the same price! Listen to @Pucker5
! Full Story:
2002 LX470 here with the Mark Levison system.
- Bought it in Sept 2020; almost no sound coming out of most speakers.
- Found this thread around Oct 2020
- Re-foamed all the speakers using that $60 kit from Simply Speakers. Initially its almost magical as I got all the sound back, and I felt like a genius! Proudly showed it to my wife - who was unimpressed with the 'tinny sound' she claimed.
- About a month in, I realized that the sound is indeed crappy (wife is always right) and I couldn't stand it anymore. LOL
- Winter came; spent every spare minute on the slopes.
- Now, I finally got around to replacing all the speakers with:
2x Front doors: Visaton BG17-8 6.5" Full-Range Speaker with Whizzer Cone 8 Ohm
2x Rear doors: Visaton R10S 4" Full-Range Speaker 8 Ohm
1x Subwoofer: Visaton W170S-8 6.5" Woofer with Treated Paper Cone 8 Ohm
The tweeters in the door by the mirror seem to be fine.
The Visaton speakers all fit into the plastic enclosures fairly easily. Not a perfect fit, but there's enough space to just screw them into the plastic.
Now the sound is so much better! I'd say it now sounds like what a 2002 OEM Mark Levinson system would have probably sounded like new. All for about $100. There is no saving those 20-yr old Lexus speakers at this point. New speakers are clear; can hear every high and low, and all the sound adjustments work.
Some audiophiles will disagree with my assessment, and will recommend new high-tech gear, but that's an entirely different discussion. I didn't want to tear it all up, replace the amp, head unit, re-wire, and all that. I just wanted a clean, original look, with good enough sound to stream music from my iPhone to the radio via a simple $15 Bluetooth car transmitter. Extremely happy with it, and totally regret going that re-foaming route at all.
Hope this helps: DO NOT REFOAM! Buy new Visaton speakers for about the same price!
Great news! Thank you for the update. I think I'm going to do this at least with my sub. there is power getting to the woofer box but the driver isnt working. I already bought the simply speaker kit and its been sitting in the garage so I guess I'll try this route with the rest of them at least in the short term 
Keep us updated on how they perform!
Keep us updated on how they perform!
@KosPar I changed my mind and decided to go your route - I shelved the refoaming kit and replaced all speakers with your recommended visaton options. i am VERY pleased with the results! Thank you for being the first to attempt the retrofit.
The sound is great. However, one small issue I've noticed is I have a rattle/shake/vibration coming from the subwoofer from certain bass notes. I believe this is due to the visaton sub housing being larger than the original mark levinson sub and therefore making contact with body panels. Have you had this issue?
The sound is great. However, one small issue I've noticed is I have a rattle/shake/vibration coming from the subwoofer from certain bass notes. I believe this is due to the visaton sub housing being larger than the original mark levinson sub and therefore making contact with body panels. Have you had this issue?
