LX470: how well will it "carry" an ARB?

[hoser]

OK, it will be the Sahara bar for me. To avoid any issues.
But now ARB is asking which year my LX470 is. Are the bars different before and after 10-2002?

The above comparison is for the deluxe. The two Sahara bars look very similar to me. They even use the same fog lights. What is different is the winch mount and the price. The '03+ (10/2002+) Sahara can accommodate an M12000 winch while the earlier Sahara is only approved for the M8000 or XD9000 winch. If going with no winch or none of the ones that require forward feet support, I'd go with the 98-02 version. In the US, there is a $400 difference in price.

 

[Wilsil]

According to the USA ARB site, there are no real visible differences between the bars pre and post 2002.
Left is the 2001 model bar, right the 2003 model.

 

[hoser]

Wilsil, can you get the Slee Blueberry out there through Darren? Just my opinion but I feel the Blueberry bumper/bar is better built and better designed than the Sahara in almost every way... even if you don't need the extra clearance. The ARB deluxe is a different story because it has bull bar protection.

 

[Wilsil]

Without insulting anyone, I don't like the Slee bar.
Sorry Christo.

 

[KlausVanWinkle]

According to the USA ARB site, there are no real visible differences between the bars pre and post 2002.
Left is the 2001 model bar, right the 2003 model.

I called Slee yesterday and asked this. He said the only difference they can tell is the way the winch mounts allowing you to run a bigger winch. Otherwise he can't tell where the extra $400 goes.

In the 98-02 pic that wilsil posted, does that bumper look like its color matched to the body of the truck or the trim? I have the same color 2000 and want to go for the look of the one in the pic.

 

[Wilsil]

I think it is color coded.
My bar should arrive today. After I ordered it end February.............
ARB ordered the wrong one after I sent an email to them telling the month, the year and the model of my car.
They still managed to order a Sahara bar for the LC Sahara.
Not happy.

 

[KlausVanWinkle]

I think it is color coded.

Indeed. They come dark grey. But I'm wondering if the silver LC I'm the picture above has it's Sahara color matched to the trim or to the body.

 

[RoderickGI]

It is matched to the trim.

 

[Wilsil]

Finally got my Sahara bar.
It will be installed 18th August with help from friends.

Now, I am still a bit confused.
Do I need to adjust the t-bars?
I don't have a pressure gauge tool to measure the AHC pressure, but would it work if I measure the height before installing the bullbar and after installing it without having started the engine?
The difference should be taken up by winding up the t-bars, right?

 

[uHu]

Finally got my Sahara bar.
It will be installed 18th August with help from friends.

Now, I am still a bit confused.
Do I need to adjust the t-bars?
I don't have a pressure gauge tool to measure the AHC pressure, but would it work if I measure the height before installing the bullbar and after installing it without having started the engine?
The difference should be taken up by winding up the t-bars, right?

That's a good idea. Gives a rough adjustment/compensation for the added weight.

Two issues:
You won't know if the pressure was correct before the installation.
You might have to re-index the torsion bars in order to be able to adjust them enough to give the added lift.

Otherwise: Why not?

 

[RoderickGI]

Otherwise: Why not?

Because it won't work.

The height before and after you install the Sahara bar will be the same, even before you adjust the torsion bars. On an AHC fitted vehicle the height will be adjusted to whatever the height sensors are set to, even if the car is not turned on, unless the AHC is turned off. The Accumulator (the single large cylindrical device under the left side of the car - on my Australian version anyway - not the Actuator Spheres) will still provide some high pressure oil to raise the vehicle, though probably not enough to compensate for the extra weight of the Sahara bar.

So using your method would result in incorrect AHC oil pressures, probably on the high side. How much they will be out, and whether that will be a problem, I can't say.

There is a method to measure the AHC oil pressure using a voltage reading described in the Factory Service Manual. If you can't beg/borrow/steal pressure gauges, use that method. Read it carefully though because the pressure reading is different to what you get using gauges. You need to allow a factor on the reading.

I'm pretty sure the FSM pages required have been posted previously, if you search around here.

PS: You shouldn't have to re-index the torsion bars to compensate for the Sahara bar's weight. There is a fair bit of adjustment in them, or at least there was on mine.
PPS: Of course you can adjust the torsion bars so far that the AHC isn't holding any weight, or so low that the oil pressure exceeds that limit of the AHC. In either case you won't know what the oil pressure is using the above method (aside from a constantly running, about to burn out AHC pump, or a bouncy hard ride). Find a way to measure it.

 

[uHu]

Because it won't work.

The height before and after you install the Sahara bar will be the same, even before you adjust the torsion bars. On an AHC fitted vehicle the height will be adjusted to whatever the height sensors are set to, even if the car is not turned on, unless the AHC is turned off. The Accumulator (the single large cylindrical device under the left side of the car - on my Australian version anyway - not the Actuator Spheres) will still provide some high pressure oil to raise the vehicle, though probably not enough to compensate for the extra weight of the Sahara bar.

So using your method would result in incorrect AHC oil pressures, probably on the high side. How much they will be out, and whether that will be a problem, I can't say.

There is a method to measure the AHC oil pressure using a voltage reading described in the Factory Service Manual. If you can't beg/borrow/steal pressure gauges, use that method. Read it carefully though because the pressure reading is different to what you get using gauges. You need to allow a factor on the reading.

I'm pretty sure the FSM pages required have been posted previously, if you search around here.

PS: You shouldn't have to re-index the torsion bars to compensate for the Sahara bar's weight. There is a fair bit of adjustment in them, or at least there was on mine.
PPS: Of course you can adjust the torsion bars so far that the AHC isn't holding any weight, or so low that the oil pressure exceeds that limit of the AHC. In either case you won't know what the oil pressure is using the above method (aside from a constantly running, about to burn out AHC pump, or a bouncy hard ride). Find a way to measure it.

Roderick, Wilsil says: "if I measure the height before installing the bullbar and after installing it without having started the engine". That means there won't be any automatic adjustment.

 

[agaisin]

There is a method to measure the AHC oil pressure using a voltage reading described in the Factory Service Manual. If you can't beg/borrow/steal pressure gauges, use that method. Read it carefully though because the pressure reading is different to what you get using gauges. You need to allow a factor on the reading.

as uHu said, the car being off means no auto adjustment.

the part of your post that interested me was tht you say there's a method to read neutral pressure using voltage described in the fsm? please elaborate - the only two methods documented (that i remember) are without the handheld reader (ie lspv guage) or with the handheld reader. neither approach uses voltage readings. Maybe you're referring to the description of determining neutral position for the height sensor - iirc that uses voltage readings to find the midpoint of the sensor but does not have to do with reading neutral pressure.

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[RoderickGI]

Roderick, Wilsil says: "if I measure the height before installing the bullbar and after installing it without having started the engine". That means there won't be any automatic adjustment.

as uHu said, the car being off means no auto adjustment.

As I said, unless you turn off the AHC with the button inside the truck, there will be adjustment, even if the car is turned off. You may not have experienced the AHC adjusting itself while parked with the ignition off, but I and many others have.

Even with the AHC turned off using the switch, I would be concerned that the height may shift, as there is a high pressure source in the Accumulator and it is a hydraulic system, so it is possible. Of course it shouldn't move if turned off, as the valving requires power, but heed the warnings about crawling under the truck without proper supports!

Note: Comments above with respect to my 1998 LX470.

the part of your post that interested me was tht you say there's a method to read neutral pressure using voltage described in the fsm? please elaborate -

Now you are going to make me go and look it up, aren't you?!

Okay, I remembered that wrong. It isn't in the FSM. However, I have read a description somewhere that described doing what the tester is doing manually, using voltages off the connector pins, or at the pump pressure sensor. I didn't like the idea of trying to get probes onto the correct pins so I didn't keep a record of where I read it, and I'm not going to search for it now. Sorry about that.

I used pressure gauges myself. I found a "Waekon BEQ-0397 - BRAKE/ABS PRESSURE TESTER" that was affordable. Here is my post with details: https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/363680-ahc-mini-lift.html#post5298203

A quick Google shows it is still available, but not as cheap as I got it. Get the last one at Amazon quick! US$339.50. Scratch that. Try USATool Warehouse at US$313.28 less $10 discount and free shipping. Or search some more.

Sorry for the misdirection agaisin.

Wilsil, you should get one of the Waekon kits to be sure.

 

[agaisin]

As I said, unless you turn off the AHC with the button inside the truck, there will be adjustment, even if the car is turned off. You may not have experienced the AHC adjusting itself while parked with the ignition off, but I and many others have.

Even with the AHC turned off using the switch, I would be concerned that the height may shift, as there is a high pressure source in the Accumulator and it is a hydraulic system, so it is possible. Of course it shouldn't move if turned off, as the valving requires power, but heed the warnings about crawling under the truck without proper supports!

Note: Comments above with respect to my 1998 LX470.

Now you are going to make me go and look it up, aren't you?!

Okay, I remembered that wrong. It isn't in the FSM. However, I have read a description somewhere that described doing what the tester is doing manually, using voltages off the connector pins, or at the pump pressure sensor. I didn't like the idea of trying to get probes onto the correct pins so I didn't keep a record of where I read it, and I'm not going to search for it now. Sorry about that.

I used pressure gauges myself. I found a "Waekon BEQ-0397 - BRAKE/ABS PRESSURE TESTER" that was affordable. Here is my post with details: https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/363680-ahc-mini-lift.html#post5298203

A quick Google shows it is still available, but not as cheap as I got it. Get the last one at Amazon quick! US$339.50. Scratch that. Try USATool Warehouse at US$313.28 less $10 discount and free shipping. Or search some more.

Sorry for the misdirection agaisin.

Wilsil, you should get one of the Waekon kits to be sure.

personally i went with the tactrix cable for $200 so i could use techstream - quick and easy to test and adjust vs. the hassle of using the lspv approach. some folks have recently found some other cable/software combo for super cheap like <$50 iirc (definitely unlicensed hacked versions of techtream) but if it works it works

interesting about ahc adjusting while off. if it's true and it's power to ahc that allows it to adjust after off, then he could disable ahc with the button, pull the ahc fuse, or disconnect the battery.

I'd still like more info on that - i don't think i've experinced that. for example when you bleed ahc, according to what you say the vehicle would adjust as i bleed? but it doesn't! i'm sure there's more to this story, curious what uhu and others have seen and can explain. will also have to look back at documentation. i've certainly never seen my system maintain it's height while the vehicle was off - not at all. whether it's while bleeding ahc or loadin up with gear i've never seen it raise to maintain height while the car's off. others?

back to the adjustments - personally instead of 200 or 300 on lspv i'd either get tactrix or i'd get the cheapo techstream cable/software combo or find someone local that you could borrow or rent the real thing from etc... lspv for this is a one trick pony but techstream has other uses.

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[RoderickGI]

I'd still like more info on that - i don't think i've experinced that. for example when you bleed ahc, according to what you say the vehicle would adjust as i bleed? but it doesn't! i'm sure there's more to this story, curious what uhu and others have seen and can explain. will also have to look back at documentation.

I haven't seen it adjust when bleeding the system either, but I have seen it adjust when parked on sloping ground, turned off, before I locked it, on a few occassions. From memory, which has now been proven as unreliable, there is a warning in the User Manual that comes with the truck.

back to the adjustments - personally instead of 200 or 300 on lspv i'd either get tactrix or i'd get the cheapo techstream cable/software combo or find someone local that you could borrow or rent the real thing from etc... lspv for this is a one trick pony but techstream has other uses.

I would like to have a tactrix/techstream as well, but for the AHC pressure setting with my heavy truck and experimental actuator spheres and oil pressures I wanted to measure the pressure directly with gauges.

 

[agaisin]

I would like to have a tactrix/techstream as well, but for the AHC pressure setting with my heavy truck and experimental actuator spheres and oil pressures I wanted to measure the pressure directly with gauges.

"with my heavy truck and experimental actuator spheres and oil pressures"?
can u elaborate? did u get aftermarket globes or just repressurize your old oem ones etc?

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[Wilsil]

Not sure if it works on my Ozzie LX470.

 

[agaisin]

Not sure if it works on my Ozzie LX470.

my thought is that if the dealership and indie shops in Ozzie can use it so can you. with techstream you can configure the region - thete must be a proper setting for Ozzie.... someone's gotta have firsthand experience... anyone?

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[Wilsil]

I know that some plugs/connectors are different between the Toyota and the Lexus.