IndroCruise
SILVER Star
@Moridinbg is referrig to the video at my Post #139 this thread. See also the discussion and pictures at Post #132 this thread.Cograts! Which "Russian Guy" video are you referring to?
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@Moridinbg is referrig to the video at my Post #139 this thread. See also the discussion and pictures at Post #132 this thread.Cograts! Which "Russian Guy" video are you referring to?
Thanks for your comment and link.Hi @medtro. Sounds like we're in the same boat at the same time. My understanding of the repeat bleed is to leave the bleeder open until the last step. Here's my ongoing thread if it can be of any help.
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AHC pump assembly - bench test NG
Hello All. Currently trying to diagnose a persistent DTC1762 on my 2003 LX470. Lots of diagnostic history I can share at some point, but right now I'd like to see if anyone has any input specifically on getting flow from the pump assembly. I've pulled the pump assembly and have bench tested it...forum.ih8mud.com
Thanks for your comment and link.
Hope you are doing well @IndroCruise. Still waiting for your clarification..
@IndroCruise what's your thoughts in this incidents. Why did rear fail?
(Spoiler alert. My guess, valve in controller stuck. Possible due to pressure differential between front with air in fluid and good fluid in rear.)
I just had a strange incident.Where rear end, drop to LOW and bouncy.
I'll note it had been raining a bit, over the few days prior to incident. OAT between 28F and 70F. This 07LX w/175K miles, was parked outside and not driven, during rain. Found a napkin in DS door card pocket, damp. It also had not been driven much over the past 12 months. Sat parked, for ~3 months at a time. But driven more often in the weeks before incident.
Cold start and drove 1/2 mile. Noticed rear end bouncy. Returned home and parked. Drove another LX, for the day.
Notice, rear end sitting low, when I returned. Look like rear in L front in N.
System functioning normal.
- Placed the LX, on jackstands. Open rear bleeders. Fluid only has ~10K miles 5 yrs and look good. No practicals seen suspend in fluid in jar. Expected, to see dark fluid with many practicals (globe bladder material). I just dump it in my waste oil can.
- Removed the rear globes They looked normal (silver cross) inside and could not press in blader. Expected to see black inside (Blown).
- Bleed Accumulator. Fluid darker, not clear like rear. I just dump it in my waste oil can. Regretted not examining closer.
- Bleed front DS bleeder. Fluid very foamy (air). Saved and examined. Took some time for foam/air to settle out. Clear as would expect for 10K miles.
- Drew fluid from reservoir. Clear as would expect for 10K miles.
- Note: Let both front and accumulator fluids, settle in jars. Poured off all but bottom inch from jars. Mix and examined: Minior number of practical visible.
- Reinstalled old rear globes.
- Close bleeders
- Filled reservoir with from fresh 2.5L can.
- Started engine, doors close, AHC in L. Cracked open bleed both rears and DS front, one at a time. Minor air bubble rears, as expected with globes R&R. No air bubble in front, as expected.
Why was front fluid so foamy!
Likely a very very minor FR shock weep. Was sucking in air over last 10K miles.
Note on pressure:
DTC C1340 (CDL circuit) only. Cleared has not returned.
After flush: Frt 7.7Mpa, Rear 6.3Mpa, Acc not noted.
1 3/4 CW each T-bar. Temp (T-22F) sensor disconnected.
Frt 6.9Mpa, R 5.8Mpa, Acc 0 T-22F after short drive.
Plug in Temp sensor.
Frt 6.3Mpa, R 5.7Mpa, Acc 10.4 Mpa, T122F
Ride, a bit stiff in comfort. Feels as if riding to much on T-bars, too little on AHC. As pressure indicate, it would.
Side note:
I typically find Mpa's do not change. Once temperature sensor reconnected. In this case I saw a 0.6 Mpa drop after adjusting pressure and reconnecting Temp sensor.
Not bad looking fluid, for 10K miles.
View attachment 3908697
Thanks @IndroCruise . I can see you spent a great deal of time on this. Thank You! I'll go through line by line, see if it "rings any bells. Currently the system is working fine.Good afternoon @2001LC (updated about 2:45pm on Sunday afternoon May 25, 2025 in my part of the world).
I hesitate to suggest anything given your knowledge and experience with 100 series but in return for your extensive contributions to this IH8MUD forum since 2007 I offer below a few thoughts in response to your request.
There is nothing here that you do not already know -- but the information and attachments may help others who come this way ....
The observations and measurements in your post #185 on this 2007 LX470 at 175,000 miles are noted, including:
“I just had a strange incident.Where rear end, drop to LOW and bouncy”.
Height Control Sensors, Connectors/Junctions and Harnesses/Wiring:
I would assume that already you would have considered the condition of the Height Control Sensors and possible wiring harness and/or connector faults, including near the hot parts of the exhaust system, and also including the connector at the Sensor itself, and also including the infamous BI1, BI2, BI3 junctions located at the chassis behind the LHS Rear Quarter panel, and other connectors and Ground Points along or above the chassis rails, such as BD1 and BD2.
As you know, an intermittent height fault can result from imperfect Height Control Sensors and circuits. The Sensor and/or circuit faults may not throw DTC’s 1711, 1712 or 1713, provided that the FSM-defined voltage and timing ranges are not exceeded at the AHC ECU -- such as when the voltage signal from a Sensor circuit remains within the specified range of 0.3 volts to 4.7 volts but does not correctly match the height of the vehicle – for example, due to poor condition or contact of the brushes or spring connectors inside a Sensor, or faults and erratic resistance in the carbon track inside the Sensor which may not be visible but causes a wrong voltage signal for the actual height. Fault conditions can occur within the FSM-specfied ranges and cause aberrant vehicle behaviours but not show as a DTC.
Alternatively, intermittency often means damage somewhere in the wiring or connectors which is causing a poor connection to “make or break” the circuit intermittently (open circuit) as the vehicle moves and vibrates, or, water ingress into a junction connector is causing an intermittent short circuit. (Rain and interior dampness have been mentioned in Post #185, although outside air temperatures are warm at 28 degF to 70 degF and should have a drying effect).
AHC Pump and Return Valve:
DTC C1751 and DTC 1762 have not appeared. The AHC/TEMS systems appear to be working so there does not appear to be concerns about internal wear of the AHC Pump nor concerns about full or partial blockage of the internal strainers within the AHC Pump, nor concerns about correct operation of the separate Return Valve assembly -- any of these items usually would cause one or both of these DTC’s to appear.
The only DTC mentioned is C1340 (for the CDL circuit -- resolved -- and it is unclear whether this can affect the AHC/TEMS systems).
AHC ‘globes’:
The description of the ‘globes’ and the AHC Front and Rear pressures as reported seem to be reasonable. I have never understood exactly why disconnecting the Temperature Sensor at the AHC Pump per FSM instructions seems to make a difference in AHC pressure readings on some vehicles and but not on other vehicles. I would assume that a satisfactory test of ‘globe’ condition has been done by observing the difference in graduations at the AHC Tank between “LO” height and “HI” height at, or close to, FSM-specified AHC Front and Rear pressures and when tape-measured hub-to-fender distances are as recommended at “N” height setting. This also tests that the return function of the Return Valve is working as it should.
Height Control Accumulator:
Darker than usual AHC Fluid may indicate only that this Accumulator has not been fully bled for a long time and its fluid content may be old, and/or, it may simply indicate that the Accumulator has not seen much use. This Accumulator is activated only when a height change “LO” to “N” or “N” to “HI” is initiated at the centre console switch. It is inactive at all other times. The vehicle is reported as not being used much and it has been stationary for long periods of time.
AHC Fluid and the Hydraulic Circuit:
AHC Fluid condition seems to be very good at the Rear and does not suggest nitrogen leakage from a failed ‘globe’ or ingested air at the Rear. It does have to be said that fluid polluted with air or nitrogen anywhere in the system eventually will return to the AHC Tank and then the polluted fluid will be sent by the AHC Pump throughout the AHC/TEMS system. Air and/or nitrogen in the AHC Tank may dissipate slowly to atmosphere but air and/or nitrogen within the AHC/TEMS system remains “locked in” behind the closed Levelling Valves in the Control Valve Assembly (unless the ECU determines from the Height Control Sensor signals that height adjustment up or down is required). The contents of the Height Control Accumulator remain "locked in" behind the closed Solenoid Valve unless a height raise or a height drop is initiated at the switch on the centre console.
View attachment 3913678
NOTE: Any “locked in” air is under high AHC system pressure and is diffused in the fluid, not as visible bubbles. This is a ‘change of state’. The bubbles only emerge when the fluid is released to atmospheric pressure. This is much the same, but more intense, than gas in a sealed bottle of soda water. The bubbles are not visible until the cap is removed and the fluid is exposed to atmospheric pressure.
Initially in the case of this vehicle, foamy AHC Fluid was observed on exit when bleeding at the Front and meant either air or nitrogen was present. This was eliminated by adding new AHC Fluid and bleeding.
Can air really be drawn in past worn internal ‘shock absorber’ seals as suggested??
This would mean that at some point between full compression and full rebound of the ‘shock absorber’, the fluid pressure inside the ‘shock absorber’ becomes less than atmospheric pressure.
Can this really happen??
If it does, then should this situation be expected and reported as a common occurrence on 18 to 27 years old 100 series vehicles with AHC??
Air could be drawn in past a defective seal on the small driveshaft between the AHC Pump Motor and the AHC Pump, or, at a defective seal at the outer case of the overall AHC Pump Assembly Part Number 48910-60012, or, at a defective seal where the AHC Tank joins the overall AHC Pump Assembly Part Number 48910-60012. All of these situations are on the low pressure (intake side) of the AHC Pump sub-assembly Part Number 48901-60010.
Particulates in AHC Fluid accumulating from debris in the AHC/TEMS systems along with gel formation and long term oxidation and degradation of AHC Fluid is likely to be MUCH more common in AHC/TEMS vehicles than is widely realised -- especially when good ‘hydraulic hygiene’ and regular fluid changes (using only new correct AHC Fluid Part Number 08886-01805) have been neglected over the years. This has been demonstrated recently with increasing recognition of problems caused by fouling of the Return Valve by particulates carried in old AHC Fluid. The returning AHC Fluid DOES NOT pass through a strainer and DOES NOT pass through the AHC Pump gears on its way back to the AHC Tank. Instead, the sludge accumulates in low pressure or low flow parts of the hydraulic circuit. The picture of the surrounds of the AHC Pump sub-assembly behind the outer cover is a good example. Other examples are the ‘unswept’ regions of the ‘shock absorbers’, long AHC pipes, rarely used Height Control Accumulator, etc.
View attachment 3912988
If any doubts remain about air in the system, then it may be worth devising a method and pursuing a ‘deep bleed’, such as variations on the idea discussed in Post #184 in this thread -- or any other idea which allows the Levelling Valves to remain open (maybe by applying the test voltage to the Levelling Valve solenoids) AND while the bleeder valves also remain open while operating the AHC Pump (directly from the battery if necessary) to give continuous flow of air-free fluid. The aim would be to flush and clean out as much of the system as possible.
Control Valve Assembly and Levelling Valves and Gate Valves:
Personally, I have never had the courage to open and disassemble a Control Valve Assembly to see what can be understood about the ECU-controlled Levelling Valves beyond the FSM diagrams below:
View attachment 3912984
View attachment 3912985
Even if none of the relevant DTC’s 1731, 1732, 1733, 1734, 1736 have been received, it may be worthwhile to conduct the tests and especially test the continuity of the circuits shown below and in the attachment at Page 46:
View attachment 3912986
As you have suggested, it is conceivable that particulates could cause obstructions or mechanical interference within the Levelling Valves in much the same manner as is known to happen elsewhere, such as in the Return Valve mechanism. In such a case, these electrical tests will not reveal DTC's about these mechanical issues unless an obstruction has caused a Levelling Valve solenoid coil to burn out!!
Similar problems within the Gate Valves also could be possible. These "normally open" valves control side-to-side fluid flow (and therefore pressures) until certain speeds are reached when the Gate Valves close to better resist body roll. This does not appear to be relevant nor a cause of the symptoms described.
If all other possibilities have been eliminated and it is considered that obstructed Levelling Valve(s) are the most likely problem, then devising a method to hold the Levellung Valve(s) in the open position with an applied test voltage, then flushing fluid or compressed air through the valves, may displace the obstruction. This might best be done on a work bench after removing the Control Valve Assembly.
A broken or weakened spring(s) in the Levelling Valve(s) will not be repaired by attempts to flush and clean.
Or it may be simpler to replace the entire Control Valve Assembly with a new unit or a Second Hand unit obtained from someone who has abandoned the AHC system. As the provenance of a Second Hand unit would be unknown, pre-testing before installation would be wise. IMPEX offers a new OEM Control Valve Assembly (Toyota/Lexus Part Number 48940-60010) for USD300.89 plus delivery plus taxes.
View attachment 3912993
View attachment 3912994