LX450 vs. New FJ Cruiser (3 Viewers)

[Tools R Us]

I haven't seen a FJC tie rod bent yet, but on the last run a nissan pickup bent one, we straightened it on the rig, bfh and long pry bar. The IFS rods are small, but solid, so somewhat stronger than a small tube. Around here a lot of IFS rigs play pretty hard in the rocks, the tie rods haven't been an epidemic problem. IMHO if you hit something too hard, I would rather bend a tie rod than break a hub/spindle/rack, tie rods are easy to straighten and cheap to replace.

Some of the locals wheel FJC's pretty aggressively, have broken the normal stuff, diffs, bent rear lower arms, smashed arm mounts, one bent front lower control arm, etc. But they have all driven off of the trail, never had to drag one home. Toyota has been very good about warranty repairs and most of the rigs have obviously been wheeled. They even put a new frame in one that broke in the motor mount area. IMHO they have proven to be solid wheelers.

 

[UCBerzerkeley]

Keep telling yourself this stuff Kevin.

There is a such thing as compromise, Shotts. particularly in issues of opinion. You can't draw absolutes from opinions, unless your opinion is absolute I suppose

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

There is a such thing as compromise, Shotts. particularly in issues of opinion. You can't draw absolutes from opinions, unless your opinion is absolute I suppose

Yes, agreed...to a point...though there are many things that are FACTUAL that set apart the models (series). Some simply cannot see the differences as though they have blinders on. In response to Kevin....here's a couple of FACTUAL differences:

*The 100 is much more powerful. 0-60 times prove this. Towing ratings. One drive in one tells it all. The V8 is a HUGE improvement. It's quieter, smoother, and has much more pulling power up the four-wheeling hills.

*Braking...Kevin is simply either in denial here or lacks experience betwen the two. The 80-series brakes suck and were far from offering "class leading performance". The 100's stopping distances are shorter. With 315 tires they are SIGNIFICANTLY shorter because the 80's system is overworked. Add in the fact the 100's brakes operate at 100% with the engine OFF and you have added safety. Down the big rocks and really steep hills the 80 driver has to apply a huge amount of pressure. It can be scary and even worse if wet. The 100...no such effects. Very little pedal pressure...10x the confidence.

*Steering systems? Debatable depending on vehicle use. Most 100 wheelers do not have the issues I've had. Must be due to usage. Yes, mine wheels 24/7 and since 2001. So yes, the R&P in the 100 is less durable. The flip side...it's far more powerful and accurate. Unlike the 80-series, the 100 will turn up any rock or ledge, without effort, and even when the front diff is locked. An 80...there's times (often) you just can't turn the wheels up the rock or ledge because the system is weak. I'd take the 100's steering in my 80's ANY DAY and live with the rack replacement. The performance improvement is that notable.

*Safer...with the addition of VSC, a proven feature to save lives and one that's insisted upon by most owners during new vehicle buys.

The 80 has a very small advantage capability-wise on the harder trails. Noted. Everything else about it is old-school...no offense...just reality as it's a 7-year older design.

 

[knoll0351]

Not to throw fuel on an already hot issue, but since the FJ has come into such critasism for "weak points" I thought it should be noted that the 80's have been known to have birf issues as well as the PHH...



:edit: Email from a fellow muder
You forgot PHH failure leading the death of 1fze (or whatever the engine model) HG failure !! lol J (only model 93+)

 

[Romer]

Shotts - I dont want to see ant more posts in this thread on why the 100 series is better. . They are both different vehicles and I am tired of your derailing threads in this section continuosly about why the 100 series is better. Your posts are all there for everyone to see.

Now . . . I know what your thinking

Will he count a rebuttal of this post as one more

Yes I will and I will strip all your posts out to its own thread and move it to the 100 section

 

[Nay]

The 80 has a very small advantage capability-wise on the harder trails. Noted. Everything else about it is old-school...no offense...just reality as it's a 7-year older design.

Yup. Put that old school on 37's and see what changes

 

[canman]

I have only been wheeling a very short time, and one of our club members has an 07 FJ. It's completely stock, and I was amazed at how well he did with it. However, he has now purchased a trail ready 97 TJ after replacing the second set of serpentine belt pulleys in 3-4 weeks after we did some wheeling on different trails where there was a lot of water crossings. No problems with my LX. He is keeping his FJ (for his wife) and adding a 3" lift and 33" tires while he uses the TJ.
From what I have seen, and as Romer stated, a veh's ultimate potential is in the hands of the operator. I saw a stk (only BFG AT tires) Jeep Liberty make it up a muddy incline where much more capable (looking) vehs had to be pulled up.

 

[knoll0351]

I will definately give on that one. After playing at "the ponds" one fine day I ended up with 3 bearings going out several weeks later. A side note I drove it with the noise for a couple of weeks until taking it in and getting diagnosed by the dealer and warenty apt scheduled. I then re schedueled a couple of times over the next couple of weeks. So this may be another trend, but at least it won't leave you high and dry

 

[Ebag333]

Not to throw fuel on an already hot issue, but since the FJ has come into such critasism for "weak points" I thought it should be noted that the 80's have been known to have birf issues as well as the PHH...



:edit: Email from a fellow muder
You forgot PHH failure leading the death of 1fze (or whatever the engine model) HG failure !! lol J (only model 93+)

Oooh, I know who's gonna be helping me when I do my next birf job.

And actually the PHH really isn't all that bad. Especially if you can sucker some shop into giving you a quote for $125 to do it.

(Hmmm, gotta find that quote again and get my rig in.....)

I will definately give on that one. After playing at "the ponds" one fine day I ended up with 3 bearings going out several weeks later. A side note I drove it with the noise for a couple of weeks until taking it in and getting diagnosed by the dealer and warenty apt scheduled. I then re schedueled a couple of times over the next couple of weeks. So this may be another trend, but at least it won't leave you high and dry

Yeah the bearings seem like a real serious weak link. Have you heard anything about alternatives to the stockers?

 

[knoll0351]

I haven't looked I actually learned some caution (yeah I know it's rare) less right foot when mobbing thru deap A** water

 

[Tools R Us]

... *Braking...Kevin is simply either in denial here or lacks experience betwen the two. The 80-series brakes suck and were far from offering "class leading performance". The 100's stopping distances are shorter. ...

John, if your going to make a point it’s good to have some facts in your corner or it’s just your opinion, agenda. I have had more wheels off, done more brake jobs than I care to count and Toyota brakes are some of the best put on stock vehicles. The Landcruiser is no exception, in fact carried almost into sports car territory.

The ’80 has large and thick front rotors with Y shaped cooling fins, big advantage in cooling for repeated stops, most others have smaller rotors with simple holes, less power and more prone to fade. They have 4 piston calipers for more even, powerful pad pressure, most others have ether 2 piston or single/sliding pin setups. The rears are large and Y vented, with single piston sliding pin calipers, where most others have solid disk or just drums. The 100 setup is very similar.

The hydraulic system is over boosted, the master cylinder is small when compared to the calipers. This makes for high cylinder/pad pressures and a relatively long peddle travel. Some don’t like it, I prefer it, makes smooth brake modulation very easy. The booster is standard tandem vacuum and your right if vacuum is lost there is only a couple of pumps of boost available, then you still have full braking, just have to push the peddle harder.

The later rigs like the ‘100 use and electrically pumped nitrogen setup, this produces a very short peddle travel. I don’t have enough seat time to be smooth with it, IMHO harder to modulate. If it were to electrically fail you have 3 pumps then NO BRAKES! Luckily they have proven reliable, I can think of a few places that I have been where I wouldn’t be comfortable with 3 pumps of brakes!

I have had my rig stood on it’s nose many times, sometimes with those huge Moab cliffs right there. I worry about slipping on gravel, did I air down properly, my driving, soiling my pants, etc, but never about the brakes, have done it enough times to know they will stop the rig on any angle where the tires can get traction. Most of the runs were with early ‘40’s, ‘60’s, Mini’s, Chevy's, etc, that have “lesser” brakes, some even solid rotor fronts and drum rears and guess what they all stopped!

 

[Tools R Us]

... *Braking...Kevin is simply either in denial here or lacks experience betwen the two. The 80-series brakes suck and were far from offering "class leading performance". The 100's stopping distances are shorter. ...

Here is some brake data that I have collected, it’s not directly comparable, temp, surface, test method, etc come into play, but gives a good idea of performance trends. Most of the groups are from the same source, so comparable. Note the ’96 Models group, the ’80 did better than vehicles weighing 1/2 ton less, I would call that “best in class” and the ‘80’s performance compares very well overall to other tested vehicles.

Note that most vehicles with well designed brakes group closely by weight. This is true because; if the brake system is capable of producing ~95% of tire skid, brake performance becomes a game of coefficient of friction (tire traction) and to a lesser extent mass in motion (rig weight). So in the end of the game it comes down to tire construction, compound, inflation, etc, a hard compound, over inflated tire will break loose, not stop as fast as a softer, properly inflated tire.

Braking Distance (60-0 mph):

1996 LX450 … 136
1997 LX450 ... 132
1998 Toyota Landcruiser … 140
2003 GX470 ... 131
2003 LX470 … 134
2005 Toyota Landcruiser … 135
FJ Cruiser ... 126

Some 1994 Models
Toyota Landcruiser … 136
Plymouth Voyager … 137
Pontiac Trans Sport … 145
Honda Passport … 141

1996 Acura NSX … 128

Some 2000 Models
Cadillac Eldorado ESC … 131
Lexus LS400 … 131
Infiniti Q45 … 137
4Runner LTD V6 4WD … 138
Lincoln Continental … 139
Nissan Pathfinder 4WD … 141
Jeep Cherokee 4WD … 145
Ford Explorer LTD 4WD … 148
GMC Jimmy SLE 4WD …150
Isuzu Rodeo LS 4WD … 156

Some 2004 Trucks
Ford F150 Super Cab 4WD … 147
Nissan Titan Crew Cab 4WD … 137
Toyota Tundra Double Cab 4WD … 139

2006 Government Police tests;
Charger 3.5 V6 … 130
Charger Hemi … 131
Impala V6 … 142
Ford Crown Victoria … 143
Explorer 4.6 V8 … 150
Expedition 5.4 V8 … 143
Tahoe 5.3 V8 … 145
Dodge Magnum V6 … 128

2007
Toyota FJ Cruiser Auto 4WD … 123
Nissan Xterra Off-Road Auto 4WD … 127

 

[Buckru]

Not to throw fuel on an already hot issue, but since the FJ has come into such critasism for "weak points" I thought it should be noted that the 80's have been known to have birf issues as well as the PHH...



:edit: Email from a fellow muder
You forgot PHH failure leading the death of 1fze (or whatever the engine model) HG failure !! lol J (only model 93+)

The phh is a hose. ALL hoses wear out. I'm pretty sure the hoses on the FJ aren't lifetime. This is a maintenance item not a flaw.

The hg is a flaw. Once fixed, it's no longer an issue. I guess the same could be said about the weak rear diff in the fj.

 

[Buckru]

Why don't we just bottom line this thread and kill it.

Both the fjc and 80 are what they are, no more no less. Each can be improved with modifications for performance and reliability. They both wheel extremely well.

Buck

 

[Romer]

Well said Buck

and Closed

 

[Bodda]

@knoll0351 I happened to stumble upon this thread today, and I noticed that you've now gotten rid of your FJC and got an 80 instead (based on your signature.) Very interesting. I'm curious as to what made you decide to go for an 80 after all, considering you so vehemently defended it against the 80. You seemed to really, really like your FJ, what happened?