LS3 (EROD or Connect and Cruise) Regret (8 Viewers)

[87 Land Cruiser]

Anyone done the LS3 crate option and regret it, and wish they had gone with a truck engine? I read on a few of the Defender forums that people are saying the L96 is a better option, and at least some of them have gone back and put a truck cam in the LS3 swap.

I don't wheel, nor do I want a hot rod at all. I likely will never floor it, although I never plan to sell the truck, I am considering the resale value.

I am looking for more power, an engine bay worth looking at, and an increase in drivability.

The L96, (new or used) just doesn't do it for me from the engine bay aesthetics perspective, but I can be swayed if there is a huge uptick in drivability to be gained.

I also fully realize that any LS 5.3 from the junkyard will well exceed my expectations from a performance perspective, but I haven’t been able to rationalize the cost savings vs going all new, once you add the controller and other bits to make a take out work assuming I could find a within reason mileage 5.3 or even one that has 200k miles once you replace all the accessories, etc to get the engine bay look I am after.

 

[RivMan]

I was looking at those as an option to replace the tired L92 (Aluminum 6.2 Truck motor) in my 80 Series. Originally I wanted to rebuild the 6.2, but for the price, I was nearly at a new engine.

I decided against an LS3 because I want to run regular fuel. I frequently travel to places that don't have Premium available. Basically I wanted a torquey engine that would spin at ~1600 RPM all day hauling a heavy cruiser with a trailer across the country. It had to run on cheap, s***ty fuel and last for the next 200k miles.

I ended up buying an LSX376-B8 crate engine. It's an LSX Bowtie iron block with 9.0:1 compression and an LS3 cam. I'm running it with the L92 truck accessories. Cost was $8k with a two year GM warranty, linked to my 80 Series.

The power level is more than I had with the L92 everywhere in the curve. It's really a perfect powerplant that runs on 87 octane with no hint of knock.

Looks sexy when you see past the truck accessories too.

-Rob

 

[dbbowen]

dude i paid 2 grand for a 5.3 and a 4l60 from a tahoe then sold my 2f and h55f for 2k. I changed the spark plugs, wires, and oil and oil pan and its been in my truck for like 4 years with zero issues. I daily drive it, Ive driven across the country, taken it up over 130 mph, jumped rail road tracks with it, wheeled Moab, the PNW, etc.

Sure a LS3 would be cooler at the car meet, or sound better, or accelerate faster... but Insead of spending all that extra money on a fancy LS... I coil swapped my truck and put full float 80 series axles under it with ARB lockers and RCV axle shafts.

IMO if your only big project plans ever for your truck is this motor swap, then sure go out and go full bling with the motor... if you got other projects in mind, the money is better spent on more projects.

Since all out hp isnt an issue for you... get you a LM7 or even better, a LQ4 put a LS6 intake and camaro accessory drive on it and a mild cam and call it a day. Or if you want to be extra fancy do a LQ9. Gen 3 is cheaper, easier to wire, and the main downside is they make like slightly less power but gen 4 cost way more.

 

[Beams37]

I had one of the 5.3L e-rod connect and cruise setups in a prior 62. It was fantastic and you won't regret it. If buying new will give you piece of mind, go that direction. If you want to save some money, there are a ton of great junkyard and even rebuilt LS engines on the market.

I'm currently running a 3FE, but continue to assume I will get an LS at some point.

 

[87 Land Cruiser]

I was looking at those as an option to replace the tired L92 (Aluminum 6.2 Truck motor) in my 80 Series. Originally I wanted to rebuild the 6.2, but for the price, I was nearly at a new engine.

I decided against an LS3 because I want to run regular fuel. I frequently travel to places that don't have Premium available. Basically I wanted a torquey engine that would spin at ~1600 RPM all day hauling a heavy cruiser with a trailer across the country. It had to run on cheap, s***ty fuel and last for the next 200k miles.

I ended up buying an LSX376-B8 crate engine. It's an LSX Bowtie iron block with 9.0:1 compression and an LS3 cam. I'm running it with the L92 truck accessories. Cost was $8k with a two year GM warranty, linked to my 80 Series.

The power level is more than I had with the L92 everywhere in the curve. It's really a perfect powerplant that runs on 87 octane with no hint of knock.

Looks sexy when you see past the truck accessories too.

View attachment 3900159

-Rob

Thanks for the feedback! That will be a great build and good point on 87 gas!

 

[87 Land Cruiser]

dude i paid 2 grand for a 5.3 and a 4l60 from a tahoe then sold my 2f and h55f for 2k. I changed the spark plugs, wires, and oil and oil pan and its been in my truck for like 4 years with zero issues. I daily drive it, Ive driven across the country, taken it up over 130 mph, jumped rail road tracks with it, wheeled Moab, the PNW, etc.

Sure a LS3 would be cooler at the car meet, or sound better, or accelerate faster... but Insead of spending all that extra money on a fancy LS... I coil swapped my truck and put full float 80 series axles under it with ARB lockers and RCV axle shafts.

IMO if your only big project plans ever for your truck is this motor swap, then sure go out and go full bling with the motor... if you got other projects in mind, the money is better spent on more projects.

Since all out hp isnt an issue for you... get you a LM7 or even better, a LQ4 put a LS6 intake and camaro accessory drive on it and call it a day. Or if you want to be extra fancy do a LQ9. Gen 3 is cheaper, easier to wire, and the main downside is they make like slightly more power but cost way more.

Hey thank you for the comprehensive write-up you did on the LS swap in the FAQ!

My issue with the junkyard option - up to this point I haven't been able to make the minimal cost savings make sense. Any used engine I would feel comfortable with is $2000-$3500 now, plus the cost of getting it to me, tune up items and then I have to get a standalone controller and tune. Once I added that up I am within striking distance of going all new, with free shipping and a GM controller. All other items being the same to execute a new or used swap I just haven’t been able to justify the $3-5k savings that a 125k-175k, 10-20 year old motor gets me (with no warranty)

The reason the Junkyard option could become attractive to me is that I see a lot of LS3 swaps being put up for sale 6 months later regardless of who does it, but I almost never see a Vortec swap being put up for sale. Almost all of the affluent people I know never sell anything unless there is a reason, so it got me researching if the LS3 motor maybe hurt the everyday drivability instead of helping it. I figured I would try to find someone who owned one and hear it first hand.

 

[Beams37]

Hey thank you for the comprehensive write-up you did on the LS swap in the FAQ!

My issue with the junkyard option - up to this point I haven't been able to make the minimal cost savings make sense. Any used engine I would feel comfortable with is $2000-$3500 now, plus the cost of getting it to me, tune up items and then I have to get a standalone controller and tune. Once I added that up I am within striking distance of going all new, with free shipping and a GM controller. All other items being the same to execute a new or used swap I just haven’t been able to justify the $3-5k savings that a 125k-175k, 10-20 year old motor gets me (with no warranty)

The reason the Junkyard option could become attractive to me is that I see a lot of LS3 swaps being put up for sale 6 months later regardless of who does it, but I almost never see a Vortec swap being put up for sale. Almost all of the affluent people I know never sell anything unless there is a reason, so it got me researching if the LS3 motor maybe hurt the everyday drivability instead of helping it. I figured I would try to find someone who owned one and hear it first hand.

Like I said, I had the 5.3L (cannot remember engine code), which was more like 320 HP and it was plenty. I think having 500+ HP is cool, but likely not really feasible for the average Joe.

 

[87 Land Cruiser]

Like I said, I had the 5.3L (cannot remember engine code), which was more like 320 HP and it was plenty. I think having 500+ HP is cool, but likely not really feasible for the average Joe.

Man if the EROD 5.3 was still an option it would be a no brianer. I tried to figure out how to get the L8T into my truck (because it's a truck engine that looks good) and keep the manual and I got brain damage trying.

 

[dbbowen]

Thanks for the feedback! That will be a great build and good point on 87 gas!

Ideally, youll want to get your swap on a dyno and tune to the highest octane gas that is available to you so your tuner doesnt have to retard your timing to run the 87 octane. Retarding your ignition timing to compromise for lower octane fuel directly reduces your engines efficiency. Tuning on 91 or 93 allows you a bigger spread to optimally time your engine on a dyno giving them the ability to give you the proper advance based on a bunch of variables and not just knock.

If you run 87 youre leaving a lot of performance on the table. In order to run more timing, you need a fuel with a higher octane that does not ignite as easy as 87 does. It matters a lot more in performance applications, but in a stock GM v8 with dished pistons, it means 10 or 15 hp give or take and a better overall running engine

 

[doc5339]

L96 Iron Block or really any of 6.0 variants of the Gen IV is the winning formula; tuned for long duty cycle and usable torque/hp not peak performance numbers at the expense of longevity.

There is also a reason the 6.0 iron block is so popular with hotrodders other than low cost; Iron Block and Aluminum Heads with the right cam and internals can make great and reliable power (500+ hp).

Yeah a 6.0 V8 is heavier, but it is the correct application IMHO.

 

[dbbowen]

Hey thank you for the comprehensive write-up you did on the LS swap in the FAQ!

My issue with the junkyard option - up to this point I haven't been able to make the minimal cost savings make sense. Any used engine I would feel comfortable with is $2000-$3500 now, plus the cost of getting it to me, tune up items and then I have to get a standalone controller and tune. Once I added that up I am within striking distance of going all new, with free shipping and a GM controller. All other items being the same to execute a new or used swap I just haven’t been able to justify the $3-5k savings that a 125k-175k, 10-20 year old motor gets me (with no warranty)

The reason the Junkyard option could become attractive to me is that I see a lot of LS3 swaps being put up for sale 6 months later regardless of who does it, but I almost never see a Vortec swap being put up for sale. Almost all of the affluent people I know never sell anything unless there is a reason, so it got me researching if the LS3 motor maybe hurt the everyday drivability instead of helping it. I figured I would try to find someone who owned one and hear it first hand.

Hey glad you were able to use the write up! heck yeah! So a lot of the time the used take offs come with a factory ECU too so you wont have to go the standalone ecu route if you didnt want to.

You make a really good point about the ls3 swaps being put up for sale, i see a lot of those in my area too and ive always wondered about that. Tons of shiny newer looking engines for sale, as well as heavily modified LS based motors as well. I dont think the LS3 would hurt the everyday drivability at all. They are super smooth running engines. I do see them up for sale quite a bit though and was wondering about that myself as well.

I think the big thing about finding a used motor is finding a good wrecking yard that sells the used "swaps" (aka engine/trans/harness/ecu/ gas pedal) as a package or finding a good running wrecked donor vehicle. Id be weary of buying a used motor by itself from some random dude on fb marketplace

 

[doc5339]

6.0 + 6L80 or 6L90 depending on how you build the engine. I would rather use a Tremec.

 

[RivMan]

Ideally, youll want to get your swap on a dyno and tune to the highest octane gas that is available to you so your tuner doesnt have to retard your timing to run the 87 octane. Retarding your ignition timing to compromise for lower octane fuel directly reduces your engines efficiency. Tuning on 91 or 93 allows you a bigger spread to optimally time your engine on a dyno giving them the ability to give you the proper advance based on a bunch of variables and not just knock.

If you run 87 youre leaving a lot of performance on the table. In order to run more timing, you need a fuel with a higher octane that does not ignite as easy as 87 does. It matters a lot more in performance applications, but in a stock GM v8 with dished pistons, it means 10 or 15 hp give or take.

The problem with the LS3 (and L92 Truck engines) is that it's a 10.5:1 compression, flat top piston engine. Even with a tune to compensate, Knock was always present in high load conditions (Towing uphill for example). The ECU would compensate, but the abrupt loss in timing made driving very uncomfortable.

Leaving a few HP on the table for a rock solid, "lazy" engine was well worth it for me.

-Rob

 

[87 Land Cruiser]

Ideally, youll want to get your swap on a dyno and tune to the highest octane gas that is available to you so your tuner doesnt have to retard your timing to run the 87 octane. Retarding your ignition timing to compromise for lower octane fuel directly reduces your engines efficiency. Tuning on 91 or 93 allows you a bigger spread to optimally time your engine on a dyno giving them the ability to give you the proper advance based on a bunch of variables and not just knock.

If you run 87 youre leaving a lot of performance on the table. In order to run more timing, you need a fuel with a higher octane that does not ignite as easy as 87 does. It matters a lot more in performance applications, but in a stock GM v8 with dished pistons, it means 10 or 15 hp give or take.

This is great information that I was not aware of. Thank you!

 

[87 Land Cruiser]

The problem with the LS3 (and L92 Truck engines) is that it's a 10.5:1 compression, flat top piston engine. Even with a tune to compensate, Knock was always present in high load conditions (Towing uphill for example). The ECU would compensate, but the abrupt loss in timing made driving very uncomfortable.

Leaving a few HP on the table for a rock solid, "lazy" engine was well worth it for me.

-Rob

This is the feedback I was hoping for. Thank you!

 

[NCFJ]

You could go real fancy too......

 

[BurntToast]

I split the difference to some extent, used L76 from a G8, mild truck cam, 6l80. Runs great and dynod at 325hp at 5500ft elevation.

Looks like an LS2/3 in the engine bay, no issues at altitude with 91 octane gas

 

[dbbowen]

The problem with the LS3 (and L92 Truck engines) is that it's a 10.5:1 compression, flat top piston engine. Even with a tune to compensate, Knock was always present in high load conditions (Towing uphill for example). The ECU would compensate, but the abrupt loss in timing made driving very uncomfortable.

Leaving a few HP on the table for a rock solid, "lazy" engine was well worth it for me.

-Rob

Oh i still had my tuner go super conservative on my tune as well. Its literally named "paw paw map" on the file in HPtuners hahaha I still had him tune on 91 to give him the most flexibility on the fuel map. For example the stock tune adds way too much fuel at wot so that was adjusted My 5.3 is as conservative as it gets as far as tune and parts go. Its still got the stock cam and intake and everything on it. I wanted longevity over performance and any good tuner can easily give that to you

This is great information that I was not aware of. Thank you!

Sure thing! just a few things to keep in mind when you are talking to your tuner, just let them know that you arent looking for flat out performance and its going to be a daily driver style vehicle and you are looking for longevity and see what they say

 

[dbbowen]

I split the difference to some extent, used L76 from a G8, mild truck cam, 6l80. Runs great and dynod at 325hp at 5500ft elevation.

Looks like an LS2/3 in the engine bay, no issues at altitude with 91 octane gas

 

[87 Land Cruiser]

You could go real fancy too......

Woah! haha! I imagine your opinion of the LS3 is very high in an FJ-60 application?